Is this the case for an ASL and is there anything can be done?

Rules on the ASL are the same as rules on a stop line, you should stop before it if physically possible. If not, you must stop by the second line.

Duplicate post, stupid site.

sorry don't see any comments regarding long queues.

is this,

I dont see cycling as a cheap and easy ticket to a quick commute, if I did I'd probably jump reds too.

not an inference that the behaviours are connected?

On my route, until I'm in the centre of Bristol, the traffic travels at a steady 30mph in between monster queues, so plenty of cars overtake me and I overtake plenty of stationary boxes.

I don't really understand your point coffeeking. You sit in a queue of traffic 'within a car space' which is about the same size space as an asl. So all you're doing is creating a virtual asl within the queue of traffic. I fail to see how your method is any 'better' than asl's.

I can understand not filtering up through the queue if you don't know when the lights will change.

So for your route asl's don't work. That's fine but you neeed to understand that you're not causing any less inconvenience to the cars behind than asl users.

I don't really think that parking in an ASL is a capital offence so I generally don't argue with people about it
generally they are doing it because of ignorance or a mistake rather than malice
I just make sure that they can see me infront of them and that if they are trying to race off the lights that they'll have to go through me to do so – which most people won't 🙂

I did overhear and arguement between a taxi driver and a messenger about use of ASLs. Messenger;

"If you ever see a box with a picture of a fat c*nt in it, you can stop your taxi in that".

Sweet.

lol, cabbies were my nemesis when I rode in London – those u-turns! argh…

I don't really understand your point coffeeking. You sit in a queue of traffic 'within a car space' which is about the same size space as an asl. So all you're doing is creating a virtual asl within the queue of traffic. I fail to see how your method is any 'better' than asl's.

OK, try this:

Sit next to a car at the start of a traffic queue, try to get to the next lights before him (decent distance, nominal, reaching the next lights is not "the goal", just accelerating away up to speed). Now do the same when sitting next to a car 5 cars back in a queue.

I guarantee you that you can keep up with the 5th car back from the lights and hold your place in the queue without inconveniencing anyone (due to the slower and progressive acceleration of the cars further back). But you cannot do that with the front car, who would have baulked at your slow off-the-line initial acceleration, then been left for a second as he brakes or eases off, and then caught up with you again after 20 yards and be wanting to overtake (even if it is pointless because the next lights are just ahead). By which time the lights change again and everyone in the queue has baulked because the front car did, braking again, stopping again etc and fewer cars get through the lights to the next lot.

I just find I can filter perfectly with cars if I stay back in the queue where the rapid initial acceleration isnt vastly different from my own, whereas if I go to the front it becomes a battle and the generally I win (being in the middle of the lane) but they get very upset and lots of drivers are forced to be on and off brakes instead of driving smoothly. I'm glad ASLs work for you, but they dont for me and when I'm driving people using ASLs cheese me off no-end by being in the way, but people further back in the queue dont seem to pose as much of a problem. I've seen it from both perspectives, tried both methods out on bike, in two cities at varying times of the day. I'm happy that I've satisfied all the testing I need to to make this choice valid for myself.

"If you ever see a box with a picture of a fat c*nt in it, you can stop your taxi in that".

Ha!

If there's a car in an ASL when I get there and I'm feeling a bit moody I will sometimes make a point of maneuvering myself ahead of them but I don't really think I'm proving any point to them by doing this (if they're even aware of it).

As others have said though I don't feel I have to be in the ASL so if conditions make it more trouble than it's worth I'll just sort myself out as if it didn't exist, and if that means taking my place in the queue of cars then no problem.

Like Coffeeking I'm not a huge fan of (generally misguided) facilities for cyclists, they're not usually very helpful and I wonder if they foster more of a 'them and us' mindset which I don't think is very helpful.

when I'm driving people using ASLs cheese me off no-end by being in the way

I think that says it all.

when I'm driving people using ASLs cheese me off no-end by being in the way

I think that says it all.

I think that says you're not thinking straight. I'm both a cyclist and a driver. When doing either I try to minimise my impact on the other while using the road. Its called common sense and courtesy. I get cheesed off by cars being in the way when I'm riding also, so when I'm driving I do my best to ensure cyclists have good flow and are not stopped for no reason. Unlike the hoards of anti-car, cycle-only morons that frequent the web I am aware that both are needed and both exist and that the best and safest way for the two to co-exist is for both to be aware of each other, for there not to be unneccessary exceptions that make it an us-and-them war, and to do our best to minimise our impact on each other while adhering to the rules of the road.

Others see it as an us-and-them, want to be fundamentalist cyclists and fight their way through proving they're going to get to work faster and greener and that anyone doing anything remotely wrong is the devil incarnate, much as owning a car (god forbid a BMW) is a crime of the century.

so ck, if you were riding to work approaching a junction with upwards of 20 cars waiting in two lanes with an ASL at the lights what would you do?

ps: It generally takes 4 or so cycles of the lights for that number of cars to get through (approx 5 minutes).

I always come up to the front of a queue of traffic, but only slowly and carefully – I never come flying through since that's just asking for trouble. I usually go between the left-most lane and the next left-most (which incidentally is where a lot of the ASL approach lanes are painted). I sit up front because everyone can see me and I'm not in anyone's blind spot or behind the door pillar/satnav/iphone whatever in their windscreen. It usually means I can see down all the roads too so I can see if any amber gamblers are flying up.

ASLs work very well on Gloucester Road in Bristol where there's often 8 or 10 cyclists in them at rush hour. It makes the drivers wait for the cyclists and pay attention to them. I found that road terrifyingly busy at first but then I realised that although there's cars everywhere, they really do look out for the cyclists and pay them respect. I never got ignored or shouted at on that route in 2 months of riding it a few days a week.

oh, btw – if you trackstand you don't need to unclip/clip – and kids think you're cool

Poser, flashgit and show off are things I have been called but never cool
🙂

lol @ taxi quote

If in the situation you state, with cycles clearing 5 cars at a time, I would assume the road in general is a slow one at that time of day and would filter to the front, down the outside, and place myself in the centre of the lane. If it looked like I'd boobed and there was no hold-up ahead I'd move over to the side and allow the cars to pass me through the junction. Considering just about every set of lights I come through, apart from one, allows at least 15-20 cars through in that time, even at rush hour, I'd sit back and go with the flow.

I try to minimise my impact on the other while using the road. Its called common sense and courtesy

But yet you get pissed off by either car drivers or bikes holding you up. If you really were a courteous road user you certainly wouldn't feel animosity towards other road users ‘holding you up’. I think you need to learn to relax on the road – whether on the bike or in the car.

cool – Bristol seems to have crazy short cycles on some of it's main arterials, I guess it's an attempt to keep the central areas moving and not at complete gridlock.

stay safe commuter types!

depends entirely on the situation, but usually try and move into the ASL if its safe, or in front of it if its blocked. Moving into to i'll use whatever method i feel safe. On a wide road this is sometimes on the left (carefully), or the middle/right. if it looks dangerous getting to it or the lights about to change i stay where i am.

in other words, common sense.

Theres no one rule for every situation.

isnt the main point of ASLs to position the bike in front so that vehicles behind have a clear view of the bike?
ie stops a big truck from left hooking you cos he hasnt seen you at the side going straight on?

Poser, flashgit and show off are things I have been called but never cool

I was alongside a guy trackstanding who was heckled as 'Shakin' Stevens' the other month. Pretty apt.

But yet you get pissed off by either car drivers or bikes holding you up. If you really were a courteous road user you certainly wouldn't feel animosity towards other road users ‘holding you up’. I think you need to learn to relax on the road – whether on the bike or in the car.

I never said that, I said I get cheesed off with them in the way.Cheesed off, if you're not sure, is nowhere near as wound up as "pissed off". I look and frown, and might tut if you're really annoying, and I dont wish to make others do the same so I minimise any reasons they may have to do so. Please dont assume that you know how I drive, certainly dont tell me I need to relax. And courteousness has nothing whatsoever to do with feeling animosity anyway, they're clearly a completely seperate concept. Are you seriously suggesting that you're only courteous if you never get annoyed at other peoples actions?! For the record, you would struggle to find a more laid back driver/cyclist without chemical intervention. As I've said from the start, I take the method that causes least inconvenience to others and wish everyone else would do the same, then there would be a lot less stress, bike and car hatred etc on the road.

Unfortunately its the people (from both camps) who insist on using cycle lanes/ASLs to the letter of the law and going purposefully inconveniencing others on the road if they dont that cause the aggro.

re: trackstanding

young kid with his dad crossed the road in front of me whilst I was trackstanding at the lights

kid: Dad, can you do that?

dad: glances up oh, er yeah, keep walking

Had amusing mental image of dad then forced to show his "skills" once they got home 🙂

🙂 I used to be able to trackstand, but found to my peril that I no longer can 🙂

Dad, can you do that?

dad: glances up oh, er yeah, keep walking

Had amusing mental image of dad then forced to show his "skills" once they got home

lol – I was that Dad!