[Closed] 2019 General Election

It means that when people see you on Television they are drawn to you, think you are a great person etc,. even before they have said much.

Like Tony Blair, That turned out well didn't it?

It would be stupid to have a GE before a 2nd referendum but then stupidity is the new norm for UK politics it seems.

It is just as stupid to have a referendum before the lies and facts are determined and the reasons people voted the way they did are understood and the facts made available and the lies ruled upon in some way.... regardless of the result we will still be in a very broken nation (or nations)

I can’t see any party getting a majority in a GE

Perhaps the solution is for Labour to refuse a GE via the 2/3 vote, refuse it via a VONC and leave the only option open to achieving an election being via an amendable bill.

Amend the bill such that , in the event of no party gaining an overall majority in the GE, a 2nd brexit, legally binding, referendum is immediately called to settle the Brexit issue once and for all.

Let's actually find out what the will of the people is.

There hasn’t been a Prime Minister with a beard since 1902.

(cough) Gordon Brown (cough)

(cough) Gordon Brown (cough)

Remind me, which year was it he won the election?:-)

i couldn’t disagree more. The reason we’re in this mess is because of ‘charismatic’ politicians who talk a good game but fail to do anything of substance. The trouble is that the charisma/narcissism you seek is inversely proportional to any intention to do anything once in power.

I don't seek it, but the general public do and the charismatic person is the person who wins. If Corbyn was charismatic and had the same polices he does now he would be winning in the polls. And once in power he would implement those policies - what is wrong with that?

I think Corbyn is very much the person we need in charge

But he isn't really in charge; he's a puppet for Momentum.

Labour need a leader who can lead, then they could walk it. Corbyn is unelectable to the uncertain centre.

with a decent leader they would already be in number 10

Like Tony Blair, That turned out well didn’t it?

Yes like Tony Blair. How it turned out is irrelevant as that is down to what he implemented, the wars he fought etc,. but the point is he got Labour into power which is more than Corbyn will ever do.

Hopefully we’ll see the Labour Party decimated and not a threat for a generation.

Well there's the thread set on fire with stupidity in the second post.

(cough) Gordon Brown (cough)

Did he have a beard? I don't remember that

We live in interesting times. Polls can mislead eg May last time. Bad weather coming and a week is a long time in politics etc. It only takes an avoidable death in an A and E queue to refocus attentions, in the 70s it was some poor soul who choked whilst trying to eat cardboard. These things can and do happen.
I've had graduate bar tenders tell me how they couldn't vote for Corbyn, I've had to resist the temptation to ask if they feel neoliberal capitalism has worked out well for them. It's an amazing trick how the establishment has convinced the victims to vote for more punishment. There's a lot of unfocused anger out there ready to be exploited. I just wish these people who argue against Corbyn would just throw up their hands and be honest about being Tories. And on AS and terrorism and all those tropes, just give us some 'who, when and where' or shut up and go away.

I just wish these people who argue against Corbyn would just throw up their hands and be honest about being Tories.

If Corbyn was charismatic

Again, which other politician can you remember who could pull in thousands to public campaign events? Now I'm not saying he's charismatic, but he must have something about him...

I just wish these people who argue against Corbyn would just throw up their hands and be honest about being Tories.

There is a difference between not thinking Corbyn is the best leader and not liking current Labour policies. Current Labour policies are okay although ideally they would be a bit further left but Corbyn is useless. See the difference?

but Corbyn is useless

Well I hate to sound like a middle manager, but all this whining does is guarantee failure. For better or worse, Corbyn is leader and will fight the next election. Labour MPs, activists, supporters and voters can get behind him and try to win, or stand around moaning which will ensure they lose. I strongly believe if they did the former, then they would have a very strong chance of winning. It seems many in the party want the opposite to happen though, and when it's all done and dusted they won't be forgiven for not making the most of the opportunity when it presented itself.

Be interesting to see how pro Brexit labour rebels do, even in leave seats like there's majority of labour supporters voted remain

Well I hate to sound like a middle manager, but all this whining does is guarantee failure. For better or worse, Corbyn is leader and will fight the next election. Labour MPs, activists, supporters and voters can get behind him and try to win, or stand around moaning which will ensure they lose. I strongly believe if they did the former, then they would have a very strong chance of winning. It seems many in the party want the opposite to happen though, and when it’s all done and dusted they won’t be forgiven for not making the most of the opportunity when it presented itself.

Meanwhile ... in the real world out of Labour MPs, activists, supporters and voters which group is most important to winning a (hint) election?

in the real world out of Labour MPs, activists, supporters and voters which group is most important to winning a (hint) election?

There's no hope of voters voting for you if they think you don't want to win, and at the moment many labour MPs are giving exactly that impression.

No beard.

Perchy speaks truth. Beardymen are universally perceived as less trustworthy than clean shaved chaps.

Obviously (99.999%) inapplicable to ladies.

Also, current labour policy looks fine. Corbyn simply does not grab attention. Policy is not down to the figurehead anyway.

Think about why old farts and leavers love Joris. As much as anything else, as soon as he's on TV its the Joris Bohnson show, man of the people, funny haired mop top fop, he's on your side, he's sticking it to the man, it's good old Boris!

Then you get Corbyn. Blah de blah blah blah blah boring.

PS I'm not hating on Corbyn as a capable MP. He's simply not the man for the hot seat.

Again, which other politician can you remember who could pull in thousands to public campaign events?

The Peoples Vote campaign have hundreds of thousands of politically motivated people attend each march and the chants of "Where's Jeremy Corbyn" were ever present. Has Jeremy had 100 000's attend one of his jamboree's?

And to be fair to the hateful faarge, he has attracted crowds up and dow the country.

In a single issue GE both the tories and Labour stand to lose a good % of their vote to the BP.

The Peoples Vote campaign

Are they standing for election?

In a single issue GE both the tories and Labour stand to lose a good % of their vote to the BP.

It won't be a single issue election. Brexit will dominate but there are huge numbers of people who don't caree about it one way or the other.

Well I hate to sound like a middle manager, but all this whining does is guarantee failure.

Nope, all Corbyn does is guarantee failure. I will be voting Labour (I am actually Green but that is even more of a wasted vote than Labour where I live) but that does not mean I cannot criticise the leader and think that Labour's chances of winning would be far greater with a different person as leader.
You are simply not able to grasp how unpopular Corbyn is with most people. The polices don't even get a look in as people won't look past Corbyn. The Tories have played on this for a few years now and that is working well for them.

There’s no hope of voters voting for you if they think you don’t want to win, and at the moment many labour MPs are giving exactly that impression.

All a bit chicken and egg really.... regardless many Labour voters won't vote for him to be PM and even more swing voters.

I just wish these people who argue against Corbyn would just throw up their hands and be honest about being Tories.

That right there is the major reason that Corbyn, with Momentum behind him will never, ever win an election. Proper sixth form level 'debate', right there. Puerile!

Anyone who fails to swear allegiance in blood to St Jeremy and not see him as some kind of anointed deity is immediately defined as 'the enemy' and then treated with open hostility.

No criticism of the glorious leader will be tolerated. Anything the chosen one says must be taken as the gospel as if had just been brought down from a mountain engraved on stone tablets. Vitriol awaits anyone who dares question the almighty (peace be upon him)

It looks like a cult. And cults aren't very attractive places for the majority of people

There is only one way to win elections in this country. Blair knew it (boooo... hisss..... war criminal!!) You don't just have to pander to your core vote, who'll vote for you anyway, you need to reach out and convince people who aren't your natural constituency. You have to convince swing voters in marginal constituencies.

I don't think I've ever seen a politician less interested, or able, to do this than Jeremy Corbyn.

There is only one way to win elections in this country. Blair knew it (boooo… hisss….. war criminal!!) You don’t just have to pander to your core vote, who’ll vote for you anyway, you need to reach out and convince people who aren’t your natural constituency. You have to convince swing voters in marginal constituencies.

Bang on.

Unfortunately I only see Corbyn as a leader in a primary school headteacher, charity, local council department sort of way. Nothing wrong with that but lacks the statesman like qualities he needs to convince the masses.

I'll vote Lib Dem... because West Oxfordshire a Remain constituency has a hard Brexit supporting MP and **** all chance of getting anything but the incumbent prick back in parliament.

Proper sixth form level ‘debate’, right there.

No criticism of the glorious leader will be tolerated.

The people acting like sixth formers are the centrists. If they don't get the leader they want, they refuse to play ball and make defeat a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's hard to escape the conclusion that the centrists don't want to win an election, and don't want a second ref on brexit given their habit of voting to support Johnson's deal. I'm not going to call them tories, but you can see why some come to that conclusion when they do everything in their power to support them.

My predictions...

SNP make gains in Scotland (I reckon just a couple of seats at most for other parties)
BP also make gains from both Tories and Labour
LD make a few gains (~25 - 30 seats total)
Labour lose quite a few seats (JC has to stand down as a result)
Tories retain most seats overall, but no overall control
Other parties remain pretty much unchanged

My seat is Tory and last time round his majority was significantly reduced, I voted labour last time out, but can't do the same now with an unclear message from them

Every single time JC comes on the TV my wife says a variation of the same thing.

It's not " He hates Jews", or " I disagree with his policies because he's a Marxist / Secret Brexiteer / puppet of the Unions / cult leader / terrorist sympathiser / Magic Grandad / allottment owner  etc. etc."

It's always the same. " Look at the state of him....he looks like a tramp"  No matter what he says, she can't see past that.

He has a massive perception problem amongst a huge swathe of people who don't care that much about politics but like their politicians to appear  well groomed and statesmanlike.

He'll never be electable as long as he looks like the bloke who pretends to be Santa in B&M's.

People won't trust nuclear launch codes to a man who can't arrange a well ironed shirt.

It's Michael Foot all over again.

Yeah Daz... it's everybody else's fault apart from the sainted Jeremy, isn't it?

He lost an election against a hopeless May during peak Corbyn and since then it's been the law of diminishing returns as he becomes even less appealing with his endless dithering and inaction, even against this shambolic government

The centrist/blairite scum/whatever rump of the party is completely excluded from the clique around the leader. As are even most of his disciples So what exactly do you expect them to do?

I’m not going to call them tories, but you can see why some come to that conclusion when they do everything in their power to support them.

That doesn't sound at all like the paranoid, bunker mentality constantly used to describe the Corbyn clique, does it?

Nope, all Corbyn does is guarantee failure

You can't guarantee anything like this.

We are in difficult times - the idea that changing the leader would all of sudden overturn all the issues and splits we have just doesn't compute.

Anyone who fails to swear allegiance in blood to St Jeremy and not see him as some kind of anointed deity is immediately defined as ‘the enemy’ and then treated with open hostility.

That's just a comic strip view of reality. I see more poison coming from the middle ground actually than a few passionate supporters who's voices are constantly marginalised.

How many times have we heard Corbyn is finished etc? Repetition confuses fact and fantasy.

I see so much stuff on here that has been drawn from Twitter and the papers (Guardian's opinion columns a good example) and passed off as their own opinion...

the idea that changing the leader would all of sudden overturn all the issues and splits we have just doesn’t compute.

It'd certainly be a pretty decent start.

If labour got rid of grandad tomorrow, and put anyone up as a replacement... literally anyone who looked vagually competent, and not like they spent last night sleeping in a hedge after a busy day handing out the Socialist Worker... what do you think the immediate effect on the polls would be?

just give us some ‘who, when and where’

John MacDonnell, May 2003, London:

"It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table."

John_McDonnell, now, Hayes, Middlesex:

"In his study at Hayes, McDonnell has a plaque presented to him by Gerry Kelly dedicated to the "H-Block Martyrs 1981", referring to those who died during the 1981 Irish hunger strike."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McDonnell

The Peoples Vote campaign have hundreds of thousands of politically motivated people attend each march and the chants of “Where’s Jeremy Corbyn” were ever present. Has Jeremy had 100 000’s attend one of his jamboree’s?

Given that Dianne Abbot needed police protection at the March and looked visibly terrified I can't say I blame him for staying well away. As useless as he is I don't think lynching is the answer.

It’s always the same. ” Look at the state of him….he looks like a tramp” No matter what he says, she can’t see past that.

Honestly your wife is this shallow? What about Bojo's hair? JC looks smarter than Bojo 90% of the time.

I agree with Binners. We know what JC is about, he has a rock solid foundation but he needs to reach out to business, to the aspirational middle classes, court the armed forces etc, it wouldn't be difficult nor really require much if any change in policies.

Honestly your wife is this shallow?

No, she's way more intelligent and thoughtful than i'll ever be but it's an instinctive gut reaction to seeing a  manky scarecrow masquerading as a contender for PM.

What about Bojo’s hair?

He can pull it off because he at least looks like he's had a wash, is  superficially charming and always wears nice clothes, albeit  (allegedly deliberately) ill fitting.

in the event of no party gaining an overall majority in the GE, a 2nd brexit, legally binding, referendum is immediately called

I'm pretty much opposed to both referendums in general and a second referendum. ....but I think that idea is superb.

In a single issue GE both the tories and Labour stand to lose a good % of their vote to the BP.

...and to the libdems. Hence both need Brexit before an election. Not looking like it's going to happen though.

What about Bojo’s hair? JC looks smarter than Bojo 90% of the time.

True, but this is because this is a cartoonish caricature that Johnson has spent decades constructing and honing. It's ridiculously contrived but it serves him well as it disguises his true personality and intentions. As Eddie Meir accurately pointed out, he's 'a nasty piece of work', a self-serving narcissist who gets away with all kinds of shit by people sayin 'oh, that's; just Boris'

Everyone, including journalists simply refer to him as 'Boris'. That alone is probably worth 5 points in the polls

True, but this is because this is a cartoonish caricature that Johnson has spent decades constructing and honing. It’s ridiculously contrived but it serves him well as it disguises his true personality and intentions. As Eddie Meir accurately pointed out, he’s ‘a nasty piece of work’, a self-serving narcissist who gets away with all kinds of shit by people sayin ‘oh, that’s; just Boris’

No crap .... and that's hardly even starting ... and for what it's worth Corbyn actually seems like a nice guy and honest... (as was Micheal Foot)... but he believes in Red Unicorns... which to me is just a honest version of Leave... I think he's straight up and he believes but it requires the same level of "just believe" as Brexit...

That said, I'd still vote for him if I thought he'd have any chance... except it would be pointless. (Both locally and nationally)

I wonder what the balance is betwene the number of people saying 'I woud vote labour if it wasn't for Corbyn being leader' and the number of people saying @I would vote Tory if it wasn't fro Boris'?

While I'm sure its more people on the labour half, I think Boris does put lots of normal, politically ambivalent, people off the tories.

A GE eh

Time to get rid of the torytards

While I’m sure its more people on the labour half, I think Boris does put lots of normal, politically ambivalent, people off the tories.

I don't think it's as many as it should be or you'd think....
Most of those I'd guess were ambivalent on party are vocal on Brexit ... his lying doesn't even seem to bother them...???
I've bothered to challenge some and most just say "...but it could be true"....

” Look at the state of him….he looks like a tramp”

eh?

In fairness, Laura has been in the wind for a bit

There’s looking scruffy, then there’s looking like a homeless Jimmy Saville...

Ha! Just thought of another rather difficult position lyingblowhard is in...

To set a GE off, he has to approach the Queen and dissolve parliament..

I bet she’s itching to see the lying gonk stand once again and lie to her face...

Imagine it for a moment:

LBH: errr, wobble fubble erm, flud fludding wobble..

HMQ: what are you mumbling about now LBH? Speak up and clearly so I can understand a single word you are saying For Gods Sake!

LBH: dissolve flud, wobble, dribble, fart, flud...

HMQ: I don’t believe you, come back when you can tell the truth ...

LBH: flud, dibble, flib, fubbber, fart...

There’s looking scruffy, then there’s looking like a homeless Jimmy Saville…

" Look what I got off Gumtree mate,bargain"

it’s everybody else’s fault apart from the sainted Jeremy, isn’t it?

Not everyone else's, just those who actively do everything they can to prevent him winning, and sadly there are many in the PLP who are doing just that. Last week a lot of them voted for Boris's deal. I've no doubt they'll vote against having an election when Corbyn directs them to do the opposite. The bottom line is that they prefer Johnson to Corbyn, so they can drop the faux-outrage when they are called out on it.

those who actively do everything they can to prevent him winning, and sadly there are many in the PLP who are doing just that… The bottom line is that they prefer Johnson to Corbyn…

Are you honestly claiming there are lots of Labour MPs that would rather have Johnson as PM than Corbyn? Even Binners doesn’t distrust him that much. What do they know?

Not everyone else’s, just those who actively do everything they can to prevent him winning, and sadly there are many in the PLP who are doing just that. Last week a lot of them voted for Boris’s deal.

Hang on voting for the deal is what Corbyn wanted/needed because he needs Brexit behind us just as Boris does. The reason they could vote for the deal is because he made it clear there would be no career repercussions because he needed then to do it.

I'm not saying COrbyn has won over the PLP at all but on this issue they are helping him not hindering him.

I’ve no doubt they’ll vote against having an election when Corbyn directs them to do the opposite.

It's less clear cut, but probably the same argument applies since the opposition want to delay an election for as long as possible.

Not everyone else’s, just those who actively do everything they can to prevent him winning, and sadly there are many in the PLP who are doing just that.

Fairly standard paranoid, bunker mentality nonsense, I'm afraid

Last week a lot of them voted for Boris’s deal.

Quite a few hardline Corbynites did too. It was that North Eastern caricature Corbynite MP, in a candid comment, who pointed out that if he hadn't have found himself as the accidental leader, then life-long Lexiteers Jeremy and John MacDonnell would have done too, as they have voted against every single other piece of pro-EU legislation in the past, spanning decades

The bottom line is that they prefer Johnson to Corbyn.

Seriously? You genuinely think that most Labour MP's would prefer to see Boris Johnson in number 10 than Corbyn? You actually believe that?

I refer you to the previous comment about paranoid, bunker mentality nonsense