[Closed] 2019 General Election

Hopefully we’ll see the Labour Party decimated and not a threat for a generation.

SNP +10 seats or so at the expense of Torys
LD + a few at expense of Torys depending on the state of Brexit at time of GE
Lab depends on how solid their message is. Needs to be clear.
Torys depends on state of Brexit

Hopefully we’ll see the Labour Party decimated and not a threat for a generation.

I laugh every time I hear the words 'for a generation' used in relation to politics. You know as well as I do that voters are far more fickle than that. They will vote on the usual stuff, as they always do, and it'll come down to a tiny few waverers in marginal seats. The wild card in this one will be the brexit party.

The wild card in this one will be the brexit party.

They are wild, I’ll agree.

Will the grim weather keep northern voters at home?

Only those originally from the south but I’ve not seen the forecast.

He’ll find an excuse not to run one he hasn’t held a single promise yet.

The wild card in this one will be the brexit party.

Yes. Depending on the state of Brexit, Farage could end up stoking the fires against Labour if it's not done, or against everyone if it's done but in a way that doesn't please him. I think the only way it would please him is no deal.

I think the only way it would please him is no deal.

Or No Brexit, he gets to keep his EU MP salary for a little while longer... 🤦‍♂️

Labour have consistently been polling around 20% and they have a historically unpopular leader (amongst the population). They stand a fair chanced of being slaughtered. If you are a labour voter but want brexit what are you going to do?

I laugh every time I hear the words ‘for a generation’ used in relation to politics. You know as well as I do that voters are far more fickle than that.

The Tories are polling quite well aren't they? They've lurched further to the right to soak up the Brexit party voter base.

The Tories are polling quite well aren’t they?

Depends which polls you look at.

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1187399919604289538?s=20

5thElefant

Member

Hopefully we’ll see the Labour Party decimated and not a threat for a generation.

Do you really believe that or are you just trolling?

I'll assume the former and question why you think it's a good idea for any party (Conservative or otherwise) to be able to enact all of its policies unopposed by any serious checks and balances. Or are you dim enough to be wishing for a dictatorship?

JP

#greenlandslider

Do you really believe that or are you just trolling?

I’ll assume the former and question why you think it’s a good idea for any party (Conservative or otherwise) to be able to enact all of its policies unopposed by any serious checks and balances. Or are you dim enough to be wishing for a dictatorship?

Fingers crossed.

Didn’t go well last time that happened.

Are you seriously comparing the UK labour party to the nazis? Really?

Are you seriously comparing the UK labour party to the nazis? Really?

Confiscation of private property and imprisonment of political opponents don’t sound reassuring.

Of course. Who wants an antisemitc socialist party in power? Didn’t go well last time that happened.

🤦🏻‍♂️

Who wants an antisemitc socialist party in power? Didn’t go well last time that happened.

When was that? and are you therefore fine with a right wing antisemitic party?

I’d be happy with either the liberals or the conservatives in power or as the opposition. Or even a return of new labour.

So centre right and hard right and maybe allowing another centre tending towards right person.
Good choices there.

More Oswald Mosley. Glad we didn’t find out how that would have worked out.

Quick back-pedal.

Probably wise to rename this thread, “2019/2020 General Election” now, rather than later.

Anyway, TV voxpops predictably full of people saying, “We don’t trust these politicians, yet don’t want the bother of getting the chance to do anything about them in the voting booth”. 🤦🏻‍♂️

Two elections?

Not what I meant, but very likely.

Glad we didn’t find out how that would have worked out.

But you said 'the last time it happened' so you weren't talking about Moseley were you because you know he was never in power? Perhaps it would just be best to admit that comparing labour to the nazis is a ridiculously stupid thing to say?

Probably wise to rename this thread

Indeed, a couple of hours ago it looked a dead cert. Looking unlikely now isn't it, and I was quite looking forward to a distraction from the xmas party season.

Depends which polls you look at.

There's not many that show the Tories with a substantial lead

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49798197

ridiculously stupid thing to say?

It used to be ninfan’s go-to-let’s-wind-up-the-lefties shtick. It is ridiculously stupid so it’s no great surprise that 5th Elefant is now trotting it out.

There’s not many that show the Tories with a substantial lead

Realistically, have the Brexit Party any chance of winning Westminster seats? I just assumed some sort of voting pact with the Tories, suggesting that they'd end up with 45-50% of the popular vote in total, though not sure how that would break down into seats.

It is ridiculously stupid so it’s no great surprise that 5th Elefant is now trotting it out.

it's not really, look at The Third Wave experiment :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Wave_(experiment)

and compare to how certain sections of both the labour party and society in general are behaving, it is not inconcievable that a skilled operator could head the party off down that road.

We are just lucky that Corbyn is not that skilled operator, although McDonnell might be - see his youtube videos celebrating direct action and spitting in your managers tea being a victory for the people.

Realistically, have the Brexit Party any chance of winning Westminster seats

Difficult to tell how things are going to turn out. Depends on if they manage to get the "tories failed to deliver its only us you can trust" line working.
A voting pact seems unlikely. For all of Farages many flaws being a complete idiot isnt one of them so he wont trust Johnson as far as he can throw him.

@ Scotroutes - I fear the BP will do rather well, on the back of a single issue No Deal Brexit Campaign. This will embolden or force de Pfeffel to push his own No Deal or the hardest of Brexits possible.

5thElefant

Confiscation of private property

I'm actually with you on that one - Labour appear to have lost their minds on that issue.

JP

 fear the BP will do rather well, on the back of a single issue No Deal Brexit Campaign. This will embolden or force de Pfeffel to push his own No Deal or the hardest of Brexits possible.

But if splitting the pro-(hard)Brexit vote lets Labour in then it'll be even worse.

At the risk of stating the obvious. This election campaign will be focused on brexit with no mention of what else the successful party will do. It might be the big issue of the day but it could be a 5 year term which is a long time if their other plans are crazy (selling the NHS, screwing the most vulnerable, islamaphobic etc).

I suspect we'll just end up with another hung parliament / minority leadership / coalition which will resolve nothing....

And to be fair, I'd be quite happy with that as it will keep Brexit stalled...

We are just lucky that Corbyn is not that skilled operator, although McDonnell might be – see his youtube videos celebrating direct action and spitting in your managers tea being a victory for the people.

Neither of them are skilled. Sadly.

Ah well.
Anyone who stands up against entitled right whngers who whine about living in one of the most privileged parts of the western world is worth listening to.
Shame they've been unable to leave the sixth form common room, but at least they're socialists.

Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer......
we've never needed a decent democratic socialist government as much as we do now.

The last Labour manifesto, you know, the only one that was independantly costed was just fine in my eyes.
The addition of scrapping private education is just the icing on the cake.

And what's wrong with direct action?

Who wants an antisemitc socialist party in power?

Labour aren't antisemitic in any real sense - totally inflated story based on insinuation and smear tactics. I do however very much want a socialist party in power.

Greed is bad.

Oh and conflating Nazis who called themselves socialist to make it look like they were on the people's side with Labour who actually are is very poorly informed.

It'll be a totally hung parliament across three or four parties.. and we'll still be in the same mess.
Bxp making noises that they'll get into bed with the tories but the tories aren't interested.

We need a second referendum before a general election.

I think Johnson will win

But not by a massive margin (he's actually worse at this than May, just better at spin, well Cummings is)

Populism works, even if the result will be a disaster for the country.

Nazi policy killed disabled people

Tory policy killed disabled people

Labour aren’t antisemitic in any real sense – totally inflated story based on insinuation and smear tactics. I do however very much want a socialist party in power.

Absolutely. There is no way out of the despicable concentration of wealth in this country than a huge redistribution.

Neolibralism has ran out of steam for the most; markets have failed us in lots of ways. Unless we want more of the same we must have some form of socialism to sort this out.

Anyone who calls Corbyn and Labour Communists or Marxists with any sort of intended slur - needs to be asked well would your rather not have the NHS? That usually sorts the wheat from the chaff.

It's such frustration that people have used Brexit has Corbyn's yardstick and decided that doesn't make a successful leader - and yet no leader has navigated this unscathed. Do you think there is a point there?

If we could get beyond Brexit just for a moment I think Corbyn is very much the person we need in charge. Free from ego, decent and caring - and he's a fighter too - quietly dispatching many strong critics and Tory leaders.

He's got something that appeals but it's a battle for the electorate to see that because ultimately we've made a drama out of Brexit and he's not the best actor in the cast.

I would argue that someone with the same (or similar) message, but with more charisma and without the taint that Corbyn has would be a better choice. I know too many people that dislike Johnson, but cannot bring themselves to vote for Corbyn (terrorist sympathies, old-skool marxism, etc). You need someone that can pull in those voters, then they would walk it.

You need someone that can pull in those voters, then they would walk it.

Yep. They also need a very good strategist to combat the populism than Tories/Cummings will put out.

Labour policies should be easy to sell to most people if you could get their attention for 2 minutes as they are for the good of most people.

but with more charisma

What does that actually mean? Seems to me that when it comes to politics charisma means narcissism, and that’s the last thing we need right now. Even then it’s weird that this criticism is aimed at Corbyn when he’s the only politician I can remember who can attract thousands to a public campaign event. (And no, they’re not all party stooges however much the haters pretend they are)