2017/2018 cx racing thread

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  • 2017/2018 cx racing thread
  • How do the pits work for the amateurs? i.e. could I deposit a track pump with a couple of tubes in case of a puncture?

    Doubt I could rely on my long suffering wife to stand around waiting for me with the (by then) 10 week old in the pram 😀

    warton
    Member

    How do the pits work for the amateurs? i.e. could I deposit a track pump with a couple of tubes in case of a puncture?

    replacing a tube in a CX race is pretty much the same as not finishing, it would put you a lap down on where you were, at least.

    I’m running clinchers this year due to cost. slime in the tubes, and a spare pair of cheap wheels with an old pair of CX tyres in the pits is the best option.

    Premier Icon mick_r
    Subscriber

    Quite enjoyed NW Hoghton on Saturday. Always a tough hilly course but suits me better than the flat power ones (so not especially unhappy about Bolton being cancelled). 33 out of 90 odd starters which was OK but not great. Splitting the vets class left both races at approx 90 riders which was a huge improvement – 180 in one race would have been crazy. Even split they are still the biggest races of the day.
    Pleased to be one of the very few hopping up the barn steps 🙂

    Some fabulous photos by Ellen Isherwood on Flickr – the faces in the kids races are fantastic!

    Off to buy Mrs some Limus at lunchtime..£££….

    replacing a tube in a CX race is pretty much the same as not finishing, it would put you a lap down on where you were, at least.

    Yeah, fair enough, I just figured since I wasn’t going to be chasing any sort of significant placing, I’d rather get my money’s worth out of the race and keep riding!

    Will probably stash tubes and a pump somewhere, not got the time, inclination or money to go for tubs or tubeless, hoping latex tubes, wide rims and ‘old school’ pressures do the job… 🙄

    Premier Icon Garry_Lager
    Subscriber

    LS – Member

    This is one of the biggest gains from using tubulars – you just ride it flat to the pits. It’s not pretty and you’ll lose some seconds but it’s not a race ender like flatting a clincher. Have you repaired many tubs LS? There’s a guy offering a repair service that works out approx half the price of a new tyre – just wondering how the inner tubes take a patch. I cut an old challenge open one time just to see how it was built and the inner seems quite lightweight and thin.

    Premier Icon IdleJon
    Subscriber

    £18 entry though …

    £18? Is that going to be the price of every round in the Welsh series? I may change my mind about racing this year.

    ferrals
    Member

    Its the cost of on the day chip timing rounds. think chip timing costs £3 per chip so it’s £13 (+£1 admin) if you enter in advance, and more for on the day. I think its the standard tenner if chip timing isnt used. Not sure which rounds are using chips, guess it will say on BC

    Premier Icon IdleJon
    Subscriber

    Its the cost of on the day chip timing rounds. think chip timing costs £3 per chip so it’s £13 (+£1 admin) if you enter in advance, and more for on the day. I think its the standard tenner if chip timing isnt used. Not sure which rounds are using chips, guess it will say on BC

    Of course. And I think we discussed this on last years thread as well. 😳

    LS
    Member

    Have you repaired many tubs LS?

    Yes, quite a few and I also used to send them to Pete Burgin for fixing when he was still around. They’re never quite the same again so I tended to relegate them to spares or emergencies really. Tubs are the only thing I go top-level on equipment wise so they always felt a bit compromised. The tubes take a patch fine, it’s getting the casing back together perfectly that’s the issue. TBH I haven’t fixed a tub for ages now, just used new.

    If you ride a flat tub for any real distance or over rough ground you’ll wreck it completely so bear that in mind too!

    r8jimbob88
    Member

    Took part in my first ever CX race at Hoghuton Tower on Saturday. Quite a different kettle of fish compared to my usual XC scene! Had a right laugh! Very similar to the manic sprint off the line in XC but that intensity seem to continue for the next 50 minutes…

    I’ve had an easy month or so since finishing the XC season so my fitness is definitely not quite where it was but suffering is suffering and I’m pleased to have come 25th / 63 in the Senior race. Think i’ll be a little better prepared for the next one.

    daern
    Member

    My son finished his first U10 race this weekend (well, strictly speaking his second, but as he went down on the line in the first and jammed his chain around the BB, we’ll not talk about that one again :). He came 14th from a field of around 50 and had a great time. I’m sure we’ll do more, but for now the next races in the season are a bit distant, so we’ll do a bit of weekend training instead 🙂

    Roter Stern
    Member

    Our regional series has just posted up the dates for the new cross season. There was talk of a new sponsor for the series but it seems the series has now split into two competing series with nine rounds for each series. So from November to the end of December it looks like it is possible to race on Saturday and Sunday every weekend! I definitely won’t get that passed Mrs Stern but it looks like I’ll have to cherry pick the best courses from both series. But I’m sure there will be one or two crazies who will be doing all of them.

    Premier Icon Garry_Lager
    Subscriber

    LS – Member

    Have you repaired many tubs LS?

    Yes, quite a few and I also used to send them to Pete Burgin for fixing when he was still around. They’re never quite the same again so I tended to relegate them to spares or emergencies really. Tubs are the only thing I go top-level on equipment wise so they always felt a bit compromised. The tubes take a patch fine, it’s getting the casing back together perfectly that’s the issue. TBH I haven’t fixed a tub for ages now, just used new.

    If you ride a flat tub for any real distance or over rough ground you’ll wreck it completely so bear that in mind too! Thks LS. Guess I’ll give it a try just to see if the repair works. Good point on riding it flat – I’ve done that with road tubs and the tube gets absolutely mashed round the valve. Think this one should be OK in that respect.

    qwerty
    Member

    Twiddling as fast as my little legs will allow:

    [/url]18/37 V40 WLR2 Gloucester Boating Lake by martinddd, on Flickr[/img]

    😉

    mooman
    Member

    ferrals – Member
    Its the cost of on the day chip timing rounds. think chip timing costs £3 per chip so it’s £13 (+£1 admin) if you enter in advance, and more for on the day. I think its the standard tenner if chip timing isnt used. Not sure which rounds are using chips, guess it will say on BC

    From what I have read on BC website – only one race out of the 12 is priced at £10 … rest are £18 on day – or £14 to enter online. And yes, the extra cost has been discussed; it will be interesting to see how the price hike from £10 on the day – to £18 on the day affects numbers by end of season.
    I, like quite a few people have decided to only do certain events this year to soften the costs somewhat.

    Yeah, fair enough, I just figured since I wasn’t going to be chasing any sort of significant placing, I’d rather get my money’s worth out of the race and keep riding!

    this. And me n Munqe-Chick have both loaned pit bikes to racers without spares who’ve had a mechanical – in her case despite the bike being way too small it was quicker than him running and carrying for half a lap (snapped Di2 Mech 😯 ) and he actually managed to maintain his placing and was sufficiently chuffed to get a finish line pic with MC and her tiny pit bike 😆 In fact thinking about it MC has also finished a race on a borrowed bike when we didn’t take spares.

    Spare wheels are a cheaper option, but spare bikes seem to be more abundant in pits than ‘just’ wheels.

    I’ve had 1 puncture in 2 seasons on clinchers – a front pinch flat from insensitive riding – and (Sods law no pit bike that week) I managed to finish on it as it as on the last lap, and with a reasonable placing.

    Leigh2612
    Member

    I’ve entered the last 4 Swindon floodlit races so equally nervous and excited for those…
    Got the Wessex and a few westerns on the work calendar but haven’t entered those as yet, sounds like I should be OK on the day if needed.
    While I am here can anyone recommend a mech mount chainguide (cheaper the better!) To fit a TCX advanced? Thanks!

    jonba
    Member

    I got my first puncture in 3 years on Saturday. Along with another rider we’d got half a lap on the main field and were engaged in a private battle for the win. I attacked on a long drag and as I rolled the corner at the top nearly rolled the tyre off. As it was the last lap I shouldered and ran in losing one place.

    Any earlier and I would have abandoned as I’m not interested in minor places as the league is best 5 from 9 races. Back when I first started I left gas and tubes in the pit so I could carry on racing. Was never going to trouble the winners so it was all about getting in as much racing for my money. It is still fun trying to work your way back up the field.

    Never had a spare bike.

    In a complete change of subject – anywhere doing good pro race coverage. I miss Svenness and there doesn’t seem anything to fill the void. Don’t speak Dutch or Flemish!

    ferrals
    Member

    There is a guy who videos the belgium cx coverage and does a french commentary if you can speak french.. but its not the worlds greatest commentary. Better than listening to a language you don’t understnad though… not that I fully understnad the french either!

    Just wondering what peoples standard warm ups for cx are in terms of pre laps and pre-race?

    I typically get there early enough so I can do 2/3 pre-laps before the vets race, which gives me time to clean bike if mucky, have an energy bar and soemthing to drink. Thne about half an hour before race I do 20 minutes: 5 mins easy spin, 5 mins threshold, then alternate between eas spinning and all out efforts for 10 minutes. That gives me ten mins to have another glug of water and get to the line. It seems to work well but it means a 1hr race ends up being a whole day out and with a young baby I’m more time constrained, especially if they are coming for the outing. I’m also wondering if doing less pre race might mean I’m less likely to fade toward the end of the race (which I tend to do). Thinking I might just do a warm up lap as my warm up then a couple of efforts. Should be fine so long as race not muddy, or just could use pit bike for practise so no cleaning necessary (pit bike only for emergencies as dont have a pit crew!)

    jonba
    Member

    My routine –

    If the weather is bad have extra kit so I don’t start the race cold and wet.

    Normally 3 laps or 1 lap + the equivalent else where if restricted access.

    First lap easy, look at the course and get the legs moving. Done from behind the barriers on foot if needed. One flying lap, probably about 75% mid race pace. Get the heart pumping and see if my line choices were good. 3rd lap, steady. Maybe hit a few sections hard that I got wrong on the previous lap.I like to have a few sharp efforts. That way the start is less of a shock to the system.

    Then just gentle pedaling until the start. For the NECCL it isn’t gridded officially. These days people just move over and let me on the front row but in the past it usually meant standing around for about 5 minutes or ending up at the back.

    Food wise our races start at 1.30 and normally involve a drive or ride out.

    Normal Breakfast. Light carb based lunch before i set off. Banana or bar on the way upto about 1 hour before. Sips of water or hot flask if cold. Gel on the start line (not sure it helps physically but it is part of my race routine for CX/HC/RR/TT and helps me mentally prepare if nothing else).

    This is an ideal case. Last year as one of the organisers my race routine at more than half the events involved getting up at dawn, wondering around in the cold putting out tape and hammering pegs. Not eating or drinking then doing sign on before running over to the line last minute.

    I’d been eyeing up some cheap rollers, I could bring my slick tyre commuter along and just piss about on rollers for 15 minutes to warm up (that’s about as seriously as I’m taking this…).

    Wondered if and when there was an opportunity for practice laps, the timetable for the SCXs looks quite tight, not sure if there’s space between races for practice laps, will need to check.

    thomthumb
    Member

    Take3Tri have posted some prelim details on floodlight night race.

    21st October – 7-10pm.

    facebook link

    leggyblonde
    Member

    I also used to send them to Pete Burgin for fixing when he was still around

    Same but now I use Caffe Latex sealant for small punctures. Big rips and the tub gets junked.

    ferrals
    Member

    mooman – Member

    £18 entry though …

    And the results are slower to arrive with chips than when it was a clipboard 😥 Very frustrating as I’m sure someone in WC just has to click ‘upload.’ Don’t they realise how important it is that I know exactly where in the mid-pack mediocracy I’m sitting?? 😆

    Premier Icon IdleJon
    Subscriber

    And the results are slower to arrive with chips than when it was a clipboard Very frustrating as I’m sure someone in WC just has to click ‘upload.’ Don’t they realise how important it is that I know exactly where in the mid-pack mediocracy I’m sitting??

    I’m assuming that they still record manually and compare the results. If not it’s pathetic – I often used to lap score years ago and could get the results done within 30 minutes of the race. Less people were racing (around 50 for the senior race normally) but it really shouldn’t take two days to get the results, especially if you are being charged for the technology.

    Aristotle
    Member

    I removed the rack, mudguards and road tyres from my trusty V-braked Crosslight 5T commuter, fitted a set of cyclocross tyres that had been lying in my shed for the past 13 years and headed to Hoghton Tower for a first attempt at cyclocross on Saturday.

    The Vets race was well-subscribed.

    It was great.

    Ok, disc brakes would be better, lower gears for the climbs might help and tubs might give more traction, but the actual bike wasn’t the limiting factor.

    …my rear wheel came out of the dropouts (QR not tight enough) half-way through the race and pedalling/pushing became “difficult” -I thought that the axle might have snapped and carried on, discovering at the end that the wheel had been retained in place by the V-brakes 🙂

    It is a pity that XC racing through the summer isn’t as popular as CX seems to be nowadays.

    thomthumb
    Member

    It is a pity that XC racing through the summer isn’t as popular as CX seems to be nowadays.

    3 times the price here. makes a difference to a lot of people.

    Aristotle
    Member

    thomthumb – Member
    3 times the price here. makes a difference to a lot of people.

    It would make a difference. The shorter lap/smaller footprint of CX courses possibly helps keep the price down.

    Midweek Madness XC entry wasn’t much different price-wise to NWCCA races, if I recall.

    mooman
    Member

    thomthumb – Member

    3 times the price here. makes a difference to a lot of people.

    Most Welsh League cx races are £18 on day, and thats if you have BC membership and race licence … how much is it for somebody to pay on day without BC membership? £28??
    Will it price itself out of popularity like DH and xc??

    warton
    Member

    I often used to lap score years ago and could get the results done within 30 minutes of the race. Less people were racing (around 50 for the senior race normally) but it really shouldn’t take two days to get the results, especially if you are being charged for the technology.

    CXNE have the results from all races available on the day, sometimes within 30 mins of the last race, online, using chips.

    ferrals
    Member

    Less people were racing (around 50 for the senior race normally)

    I think there were only about 30 in senior on sunday… keep increasing the prices and we can go back to everyon starting at once 😆

    Will it price itself out of popularity like DH and xc??

    off topic but did anyone else do the XC series questionnaire from BC when they were sugesting tey were going to increase the price of xc raceing even more??

    CXNE have the results from all races available on the day, sometimes within 30 mins of the last race, online, using chips.

    Who is doing the chip timing? It seems to me when a third party company do the timing, times get put up promptly because its their livilihood to do a good service.

    For the welsh league its welsh cycling chip timing so I don’t think they care in the same way about providing a service as its such a minor part of their remit. We rarely get individual lap times (even for the xc series when there are a lower and pre-defined nubmer of laps ffs), there is no consitency about where the results are put, or their format.

    LS
    Member

    Smartiming do the NDCXL, NE, Yorks and Trophy chip timing and as said above get the results out online almost instantly (Not necessarily at Trophies as the UCI cat results have to go to the UCI first).

    how much is it for somebody to pay on day without BC membership?

    A day licence is £3.

    thomthumb
    Member

    3 times the price here. makes a difference to a lot of people.

    I’m literlally arguing with my self on the internet but it’s not 3 times. it’s 2 times.

    CX £15
    XC £30.

    Premier Icon IdleJon
    Subscriber

    I think there were only about 30 in senior on sunday… keep increasing the prices and we can go back to everyon starting at once

    Splitting the fields was a mistake. Most of us who have raced for years like having to someone to actually race against, which means having a bit of aggro on the start line. 30 riders feels like riding a muddy time trial. Splitting the field seemed to be demanded by new riders who couldn’t cope with so many other bikes around them.

    Chip timing? Completely irrelevant for cross because it’s not a time-based discipline. All I need to know is my position and the position of other riders I’m competing with. Paying for a club to use chips because it makes their day easier isn’t something I want to do.

    Paying a surcharge to enter online also annoys me. I’m a BC member – why am I being charged extra to use the frankly appalling BC website?

    Not at all surprised that entries are dropping. These things add cost and complexity that isn’t needed.

    Anyway, I feel like I’ve got tonsillitis today. I’m off work lying on the sofa and have nothing better to do than be grumpy! 😆

    jonba
    Member

    The problem with XC racing (for me) is that there isn’t the density of races, there are only a handful over the year. That and they are short. You drive and get ready to only race for an hour or 2. This is fine in autumn when the weather is bad but in the middle of summer I’d rather be out all day.

    Our local NECCL league runs at the same time as the CXNE. We support 2 leagues up here with more than 20 races in the season. The NECCL charges £7 for members to race (£12 for annual membership of the TLI).

    I thught CXNE did their own chip timing. Could be wrong. It helps get the results out fast. When you are trying to work out prizes it can be a bit slow doing it by lap counting. Normally when a fast vet or junior takes an overall prize and you have to figure out how the prizes roll down.

    crosshair
    Member

    I know it’s not strictly the point, but what else can you do for an exciting hour that costs <£20 ?? I’d rather the promoting club was able to pay the volunteers some fuel money and put on a class event than scrimp around.

    I don’t think any races should take place without chips in this day and age, the ease of use and speedy results (in theory) are worth a couple of quid. Then you can give out cool stuff like a table of lap times etc which all adds interest. Especially as Garmin autolap normally gives you about 7000 laps on a cross course 😆

    Premier Icon IdleJon
    Subscriber

    I’d rather the promoting club was able to pay the volunteers some fuel money and put on a class event than scrimp around.

    How many do this? Certainly not one of the club events I ever helped with. Have things changed that much in the fifteen years since I last helped out?

    ferrals
    Member

    I’m pretty certain the GR events only manage to break even due to the proceeds from the cake stall. The moral of the story – eat more cake!

    I don’t mind the £14 personally, if we got provisional results posted on the sunday and a set of lap times not just an overall time

    30 riders feels like riding a muddy time trial

    And inevitably when that happens I get bored, slow down and suddenly find I’m being overtaken in the last lap as I’ve totally lost concentration on what I’m supposed to be doing 😳

    Premier Icon IdleJon
    Subscriber

    I don’t mind the £14 personally,

    £14 is ok. It’s when it creeps closer to £20 that I have a problem. My race is only 40 minutes. I can enter a 24 hour race for just over £40!

    ferrals
    Member

    Valid point!! And you get free camping with a 24hr race (I think?)

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