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2017 Tour de France: Concluding Observations
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SaxonRiderFull MemberPosted 6 years ago
Regardless of Sunday’s results, a few things have emerged for me this year that I wanted to comment on. Of course, what I say is purely subjective.
1. I appreciate the thoughtfulness of many of the riders. Other than some understandable tension between Uran and Bardet, whenever the riders have spoken on camera, I have been impressed by how articulate, thoughtful, and sportsmanlike they are.
2. Chris Froome seems a genuinely decent human being.
3. Team Sky is an incredibly well-oiled machine. Only AG2R seems to be able to approach them for consistent cohesion in the peleton. Sometimes Astana as well.
4. We really missed both Sagan and Cavendish.
5. In terms of teams, I quite like Sky, Quick Step, AG2R, and BMC (even if the latter was virtually invisible after Richie Porte’s crash), but I quite DISlike teams UAE and Bahrain-Merida.
6. Eve though he didn’t do very well this year, I quite admire Quintana’s quiet tenacity and calmness as a rider.
7. This has probably been one of the more exciting/interesting Tours ever.
Please add your own thoughts and/or agree/disagree with mine.
molgripsFree MemberPosted 6 years agoFroome also shows he’s pretty clever as well as quick and a nice bloke.
mrblobbyFree MemberPosted 6 years agoA few years ago I’d never have thought I’d be saying this, but… I’ll miss Bertie when he’s gone.
ransosFree MemberPosted 6 years ago7. This has probably been one of the more exciting/interesting Tours ever.
Really? A parcours that in my opinion meant lots of long boring stages with very little happening.
lungeFull MemberPosted 6 years ago1. It’s too early to make conclusions (plus, you’re stealing my Monday thread!)
2. Froome is a true all rounder, yes he can climb but he can TT, he can descend, he is good in the winds and seems tactically very astute indeed. He’s also a genuinely nice guy.
3. That’s it, when the race is over I shall post more.AlexSimonFull MemberPosted 6 years agomrblobby – Member
A few years ago I’d never have thought I’d be saying this, but… I’ll miss Bertie when he’s gone. This just goes to show how hard it is to find someone to root for.
I too had mixed feeling when watching him. His attacking style was welcome.Dan Martin was probably my highlight thus far. Constantly having a go. recovering from crash/injury. Just generally getting stuck in.
bikebouyFree MemberPosted 6 years agolunge – Member
1. It’s too early to make conclusions (plus, you’re stealing my Monday thread!)
2. Froome is a true all rounder, yes he can climb but he can TT, he can descend, he is good in the winds and seems tactically very astute indeed. He’s also a genuinely nice guy.
3. That’s it, when the race is over I shall post more.Agreed +1
Sorry SR.
leffeboyFull MemberPosted 6 years agoIt’s been exciting for various reasons but it still doesn’t feel close for the gc race even though it technically is. I wonder if they should give each team a single dose of testosterone to use as a ‘joker’*
*not really of course
13thfloormonkFull MemberPosted 6 years agoI’m more and more put off by the dominance of Sky.
I can’t fault them for simply being a more organised and awesomely fit team, and it’s not like they’re a much spendier outfit than BMC (I think, according to an article I read somewhere it’s something like £35m vs £33m annual team budget) but it just seems like they are streets ahead of everybody else, it doesn’t really seem sporting to see Froome at the sharp end competing with individual riders from other smaller teams whilst supported by two or three awesomely fit riders such as Landa, Kwaitowski* etc.
*please excuse lazy attempt at spelling.
Edit:
Estimated 2015 team budgets:
Tour de France team budgets (estimated)
Team Sky – €35m
Katusha – €32m
BMC – €28m
Tinkoff – €25m
Astana – €20m
Etixx-Quick Step – €18m
Movistar – €15m
Lotto-Soudal – €14m
LottoNL-Jumbo – €14m
Dimension Data – €13.5m
Orica-BikeExchange – €13m
Giant-Alpecin – €12.5m
Trek-Segafredo – €12m
Ag2r La Mondiale – €12m
Cofidis – €11m
IAM Cycling – €10.5m
FDJ – €10m
Cannondale – €10m
Lampre-Merida – €7m
Direct Energie – €6m
Bora-Argon 18 – €4.5m
Fortuneo-Vital Concept – €3.5mwhitestoneFree MemberPosted 6 years ago@ransos – you are always going to get “boring” stages since a large part of France consists of relatively flat terrain and it is after all “Le Tour de France” not “Le Tour de hilly bits”. Without such stages you aren’t going to have the likes of Cav, Kittel and Greipel in the Tour. Not all team leaders are GC contenders, though some like Sagan come close, ASO need to come up with a course that caters to all the World Tour teams not just the likes of Sky, BMC,
As for Team Sky dominating: well they’ve been doing it for six years now so the other teams have had plenty of time to work out how to deal with it.
mrblobbyFree MemberPosted 6 years ago2. Froome is a true all rounder, yes he can climb but he can TT, he can descend, he is good in the winds and seems tactically very astute indeed. He’s also a genuinely nice guy.
Think this is true. He’s won high mountain stages, time trials, pinched time on flat stages, been consistent. He’s now stopped falling off and his descending has improved significantly. Tactically sound and is usually in the right place at the right time. He’s won time trial heavy tours and he’s won one with only 13k of ITT. And it looks very much like he’s going to have won 4 of them. Seems to be someone that his team want to work for too. And he has mastered every sporting cliche for the post race interview 🙂
13thfloormonkFull MemberPosted 6 years agoInteresting article about team budgets etc.
Apparently one of Sky’s big advantages is that they have developed a lot of riders over time rather than buying them at their peak, so despite *only* spending approx £3mill more than their nearest competition, they haven’t had to spend that on riders, so can devote it to ‘marginal gains’ etc such as a dedicated truck for their washing machines?? 😯
SaxonRiderFull MemberPosted 6 years ago1. It’s too early to make conclusions (plus, you’re stealing my Monday thread!)
Sorry! I agree, but I am going to be out of internet range for a while, so wanted to get my two pennies’ worth in beforehand.
Hopefully this thread can run into next week, and so account for every eventuality.
@13thfloormonk: that is a great link, and illustrates, I think, that winning is NOT simply about money.
TiRedFull MemberPosted 6 years ago1) Uran is a wheelsucker. Nobody likes a wheelsucker. He needed to up his game.
2) The closer it gets, the better Froome comes across. That’s a sign of class.
3) Tour needs Sagan more than Sagan needs the tour.
4) Bardet is just class.
ransosFree MemberPosted 6 years ago@ransos – you are always going to get “boring” stages since a large part of France consists of relatively flat terrain and it is after all “Le Tour de France” not “Le Tour de hilly bits”. Without such stages you aren’t going to have the likes of Cav, Kittel and Greipel in the Tour. Not all team leaders are GC contenders, though some like Sagan come close, ASO need to come up with a course that caters to all the World Tour teams not just the likes of Sky, BMC,
Thanks for the lesson and all, but I have been watching the TdF for a long time now. In my opinion, this year’s parcours was dull in comparison to previous years.
thecrookofdevonFull MemberPosted 6 years agoI like Aru. Not because he is particularly exciting or even that honourable – just because the way he seems to crack and then claw his way back repeatedly. So basically I want to see suffering and then striving to overcome that suffering. Much prefer him to Uran who has basicaly wheel-sucked. I think Bardet should’ve and could’ve done more.
SaxonRiderFull MemberPosted 6 years agoNo one likes Aru, not even his own teammates
I wanted to say that but completely forgot. Is it an Italian thing or something? I mean, what an utter lack of class to try to attack when Froome had that mechanical the other day. By contrast, I loved the way Quintana acted like an elder brother, signalling that everyone else should wait.
When Aru looked around and realised that no one was following his lead was a priceless moment.
northerntomFree MemberPosted 6 years agoMy main observation is that the main sponsor of the current GC leader have been planning the teams successful return for over a week. And have spent significant money with my company doing so…..well before it was guaranteed, or was it?
Realistically, even when Froome lost the jersey, I don’t think many doubted he wouldn’t win. Especially with the TT coming up. I like Froom and like Team Sky, they have featured and nurtured some great British talent, and cyclings current popularity has a lot to do with them.
avdave2Full MemberPosted 6 years agoSpeculation rather than observation but have Sky/Froome cut it so fine this year as he really feels he’s got unfinished business at the Vuelta and the plan has been for him to end the tour still getting stronger rather than weaker? The margins this year don’t suggest that the plan has been to peak at the Tour and his attitude during the race doesn’t suggest he’s lost any desire to train and race.
dragonFree MemberPosted 6 years agoI go so far as to say it hasn’t been a bad tour but not a great one either. Yellow jersey comp has been pretty boring despite the closeness of the times. Bardet, Martin and Aru tried but didn’t have the legs. Uran is just happy for a podium. I’d ban power meters, it’s far too easy to ride to the numbers now.
Barguil has been a real highlight and been the first truly worthy winner of the Polka Dot jersey in a good while.
Finally I’m not a huge fan of mountain days that end with a downhill and then 20k of main road to the finish, what’s the point?
NobeerinthefridgeFree MemberPosted 6 years agoI really like FDJ, just because of the kit, it’s awesome*.
*Yes, I am that fickle.
muppetWranglerFree MemberPosted 6 years agoFroome’s a great athlete and a deserved (likely) winner but I doubt I’ll ever look back fondly on his period of domination because he makes a riding a bike look so damn ugly.
Same for that stupid looking sitting on the top tube pedalling thing that seems to have gained in popularity recently. It may be effective but it belongs in a circus.
leffeboyFull MemberPosted 6 years agoI’d ban power meters, it’s far too easy to ride to the numbers now.
would you have to ban heart rate monitors as well? It’s not a mad idea
dragonFree MemberPosted 6 years agoI’m less fussed about HR as it doesn’t give you the level of accuracy power does. But hey why not.
I think it is why short uphill sprint finishes are often more exciting now, as you just don’t have time to consult your power meter and plan your effort against the others.
muppetWranglerFree MemberPosted 6 years agoI’d like to see a ban on power metres and heart rate monitors at least trialled. It’s an easy enough thing to implement and would cost next to nothing so lets give it a go and see if it has a positive effect on the racing.
LSFree MemberPosted 6 years agoGet rid of radios first. Tactics on the fly between riders would make for far more exciting racing.
whitestoneFree MemberPosted 6 years agoFroome has mentioned in interviews that his periodisation training has been arranged so that he’s peaking in the third week rather than earlier in the race and then basically hanging on.
joeydeaconFree MemberPosted 6 years agoYeah agreed, no access to power meters during the stage.. racing should be based upon instinct not numbers.
Similarly, reduce the size of teams to 6 or 7 – make it harder for each team to control the race
The best stages are when the main GC riders are attacking each other, with no domestiques to help, with the strongest rider prevailing – hopefully changes can be made to ensure more of these scenarios.
Mountain trains may be effective, but they’re incredibly boring, and result in an uneven playing field.
flangeFree MemberPosted 6 years ago1) I never get tired of watching certain people (Bardet as an example) pedal a bike across stunning scenery. Phinney is similar, proper smooth cadence whether climbing or just smashing it out on the flat. I’ve been in New York this week with work so only been able to catch up on highlights whilst sat in a bar (you think we have a lot of ad breaks!), so there’s often been no sound, yet it’s massively therapeutic just watching a group of blokes pedalling bikes.
2) American commentators are clueless on bike racing. Subtitles (in a bar), I’m not sure whether its the translate thing at work or if they really are that utterly useless.
3) I preferred it when they were all on the sauce. There, I’ve said it. I’ve been watching the Tour since I was a kid so in the early days for me it was Chippo and Indurain. Then Ulrich and Riis, then Armstrong and Patani. Whilst they were all clearly off their nuts on whatever they were taking, the racing made for awesome viewing. The standard faire these days of Sky (normally) sitting on the front smashing out a tempo whilst a breakaway gets dragged back makes for far less entertainment. To be fair, this year has had a bit of drama with the gaps been so close, but to my mind this has just encouraged everyone in the GC to sit with each other rather than launch crazy attacks. I’m not a huge Contador fan (never have been) but at least he has a dig. Day after day of sitting there staring at powermeters just makes for dull viewing, cliche I know but not exactly exciting is it.
4) Froome is a class above the others. Yes he has the best team around him but even so, Uran and Bardet whilst amazing just seem to be lacking what Froome has. Apart from that one summit finish, he’s never looked in trouble and bar his front Pro tri-spoke exploding in the TT I can’t see him losing it now (obviously). That said I still can’t seem to ‘root’ for Froome like I would have for Ulrich, Pantani or maybe even Armstrong. There’s just something a bit lacking that I can’t put my finger on, no idea why.
5) I like Sky, Cannondale, AG2R and BMC. I don’t like UAE or Astana. But this is a good thing – the Tour should be a bit of a pantomime, there should be goodies and baddies and Aru/Astana/UAE fit that perfectly. If only there could be some heroics from Sky (Froome with a long range attack for 100k) then you’d have both ends of the spectrum. I’ve also missed Zakarin not being in it. If ever there was a bloke that’s either going to win, or explode from the amount of narcotics in his system, Zakarin is the guy. Proper baddie, he’s ace!
6) I love those SuperSix Evo’s of Cannondale. Probably my favourite bike in the bunch. Not quite the holy days of the Sagan Sram/Vision version but pretty close.
wordnumbFree MemberPosted 6 years agoI like watching the motorcycle chaps push over-enthusiastic supporters off the side of the mountain roads.
chakapingFree MemberPosted 6 years agoI was just thinking watching yesterday’s stage, Sky peaked last year and it’s gonna be managed decline now.
I don’t think we’ll see the same dominance on the road again and they royally cocked up with their handling of the TUE story, so the sheen is well and truly off. As I think someone pointed out the other day, Froome being in yellow isn’t even making the evening news bulletins AFAIK.
No overall observations on the racing from me at least until the TT is done.
I will say I’ll be glad not to have to watch any more post-race interviews with Froome. Don’t care how decent a human being he is or isn’t, he’s way too full of dull platitudes.
fifeandyFree MemberPosted 6 years agoKwiatkowski has been utterly epic.
This is where SKY really have the advantage, they have so much talent, when some of it misfires (Henao), there’s a good chance someone else will have epic form to compensate.
We saw similar last year from Poels when other members of the team were under-performing.Agree with @dragon, stages with long valley descents are such a waste of a stage. Have always thought so, and have seen nothing this tour to change my mind.
13thfloormonkFull MemberPosted 6 years ago3) I preferred it when they were all on the sauce.
Did this also co-incide with no power meters? Genuine question.
the Tour should be a bit of a pantomime
Agreed, I’ve been saying this for years. See also the pantomime villain-eque treatment of Aru because A) he’s not as pretty as some of the others and B) he had the temerity to attack when the leader of the strongest team in the race momentarily cocked up his gears 🙄
flangeFree MemberPosted 6 years agoDid this also co-incide with no power meters? Genuine question.
It’s a fair question. I don’t remember being so aware of team tactics during the Indurain/Armstrong years so maybe that also played a bigger part too – if you don’t have a team to rely on, do you attack more?
It’s probably a combination of all three things and whilst I don’t advocate them all getting back on the narcotics (or stronger drugs in Nibali’s case), I think dropping team numbers to 7 and banning powermeters would help considerably. Or introduce some sort of cap to spending on riders, so that you don’t end up with a team full of potential tour winners riding for one bloke. Problem with that of course is that cycling is notorious for paying riders badly (with a few exceptions) and you’d just end up dropping the average wage which seems unfair. It would however mean that Bouhanni would be in a team of one and hopefully gets shelled out on the first stage…
I can’t dislike Aru – he’s not the full on villain like Nibali (who I can’t stand), he just seems a bit like a dense sidekick, one who is playing at being the bad guy but failing.
mrblobbyFree MemberPosted 6 years agoI don’t remember being so aware of team tactics during the Indurain/Armstrong years so maybe that also played a bigger part too – if you don’t have a team to rely on, do you attack more?
It’s always been this way. Armstrong and the US Postal train was the usual tactic in the mountains. And Banesto mobbing the front of a climb for Indurain…
All setting a fast but steady pace to get a GC rider to the top as quickly as possible while discourage attacks from those pesky climbers.
molgripsFree MemberPosted 6 years agoThat said I still can’t seem to ‘root’ for Froome like I would have for
I can. If I were a pro racer I’d want to be like him. Good, clever and a nice bloke.
jambalayaFree MemberPosted 6 years agoDullest tour for a while for me, lack of mountain top finishes and no Corsica or Yorkshire !
Froome has been impressive, a professional sportsman getting job done, ditto Sky.
Tour has really missed Sagan, Cav and Geraint T
I have warmed to Bardet again this year, in 2016 there was an interesting piece on him on French TV training wirh Clermont Rugby coach and doing some vtt in the winter. AG2R need to get thejr act / sponsorship together as I think he will be a GC contender again.
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