Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 77 total)
  • 12spd regret?
  • Premier Icon the00
    Free Member

    Has anyone consciously upgraded to 12spd and regretted it?

    My XT M8000 cassette is too worn to accept a new chain, so this sounds like an opportunity to consider a drivetrain update to 12spd. I don’t want to spend a big wedge of cash on that extra gear and something heavier, so it looks like I have to choose between XO1 and new XTR, both of which will cost me ~£500. That is three times the price of replacing my XT stuff. Is that extra gear worth it?

    I know many people will say that weight doesn’t matter etc. I understand that argument and don’t need it restated below. I am well aware of NX and GX options at lower prices.

    Premier Icon damascus
    Free Member

    Have you ever thought you needed more with your existing set up?

    What’s the cost of replacing like for like?

    With the money you save what could you upgrade instead?

    If you have money burning a hole in your pocket then do it, if not…..

    Premier Icon jamesmio
    Free Member

    Not 12 speed, but hand on heart I can’t see any noticeable benefit between the 11-42, 11 full XT speed setup on my full suss and the 11-42, 10 speed (XT/Sunrace/Saint mongrel) on my hardtail.

    Sure, there’s one more cog, but the range is identical and I’m not even close to good enough to miss that extra step in the ratio.

    Why do you want 12 speed? If it’s for extra range, a new chain + wider range cassette (+ possibly a goat link on your rear mech) would give you that at a fraction of the cost of Eagle.

    If it’s the shiny, gold coloured bling… Follow your dreams, it looks mega!

    Premier Icon welshfarmer
    Full Member

    Have you considered the Garbaruk products?? Bling, light, great ranges, and can reuse your current mech etc…..

    https://www.garbaruk.com/cassettes/11-speed.html

    EDIT: PS> I have no experience of them so they may be rubbish for all I know 🙂

    Premier Icon lawman91
    Full Member

    Nope, no way I’d go back to 11spd. Others opinion may vary but in my experience it seems like Shimano & Sram had a major brain-fart when it came to designing their 11-speed gear. Pretty much all the 11-speed Sram stuff I’ve ridden, right from NX through to XX1 felt like it was about to fall apart any moment, while Shimano seemed to try and make their kit more Sram like and in the process ruined everything that was good about their 10-speed kit, which was always faultless for me. I actually “upgraded” from a 10-speed Saint shifter (basically rebranded XTR but waaaaaaay cheaper), XT mech with a OneUp RAD cage & 11-40t XT cassette with Hope T-rex to a full M8000 XT setup and genuinely wanted to go back. M8000 is not Shimano’s finest hour!

    Now on both bikes I have Sram Eagle, one with full X01 Eagle and the other with GX Eagle and aside from one instance of a jockey wheel failing, they’ve both been perfect. The shifting is slick and consistent, the gear range is perfect and the ergonomics are great. I say go for it, the price some places are chucking Eagle groupsets out for at the minute it’s a no brainer!

    Premier Icon johnw1984
    Full Member

    I have 11 speed X0 on my hardtail and GX Eagle on my Spark.

    I love Eagle (crisp shifting and nice to have that last 50t cog sometimes), but I don’t miss it on my hardtail as I thought I would.

    After having a re-think, I’d only upgrade to 12 speed Eagle if it was comparable in price to an 11 speed setup. Both my GX and X0 are just as good as each other in the shifting department.

    I must admit, I do prefer the feel of Sram over Shimano, but never really had issues with any of them.

    If you already have Shimano, I’d even look into a bigger range cassette for the existing 11 speed setup and maybe upgrade to an XTR shifter?

    I’ve had Sram X9 (10 speed) through to NX, GX 11 speed and GX Eagle and the shiting has always been excellent and I’ve never managed to break anything.

    Premier Icon gkeeffe
    Full Member

    try the sunrace 11-46 11 speed cassette. It’s better than the Shimano 11-46 and wider than the 11-42..

    Premier Icon Akers
    Full Member

    My trail bike was 2×11 (11-40 cassette) XT setup. Then I bought a new AM/Enduro bike which came with Eagle 12 speed. Ive been very impressed with 1×12, enough to make me convert the trail bike to 1x too. I Didn’t want too splash too much cash, so just went with a 11-46 XT cassette and 32t NW chainring. Too be honest there’s not much difference between the two setups, yes the extra range of the Eagle is nice, but I’ve not found myself without a high or low enough gear on the 1×11 either.
    In short if buying a new bike get 1×12, but otherwise save your cash and just get a wider range 11 speed cassette.

    Premier Icon Blazin-saddles
    Free Member

    my kit goes far enough back that my original 1X set up was 36T front with 11-36 rear on 26″ and dropping to a 34t when going 29er. I actually took the Eagle stuff off my new bike and put on the 11s with 10-42t and a 32t ring that I had in the garage already, as I really didn’t ever see me using the 50t and have still never wished for it.

    Premier Icon james
    Free Member

    “My XT M8000 cassette is too worn to accept a new chain, so this sounds like an opportunity to consider a drivetrain update”
    You know you could just keep running your current chain/cassette/chainring for a long time yet before it starts to skip unbearably/the chain starts snapping regularly? Then swap all at once for new of your choosing

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Full Member

    Cheaper options are available than XTR/X01

    But frankly, if you’re unsure whether you actually need the range, or smaller gaps, or whatever, just pop a Sunrace 11-46 on – they were less than 40 quid posted from BikeDiscount last week.

    I’m sure the rest of that £500 would be better spent elsewhere on the bike, or in the new bike fund.

    Premier Icon chilled76
    Free Member

    When is someone going to bring a wide range cassette out that’s a reasonable cost and doesn’t weigh 500g+

    I think that would be the tipping point for it being the best option for 99% of bikes.

    Premier Icon vincienup
    Full Member

    Not deliberately trolling although I understand this is likely to be an inflammatory suggestion:

    Given you’ve already considered SRAM drivetrains and therefore XD freehub bodies and shifter ergonomics and the stated criteria are useful extra range but not at a weight penalty and without silly cost, have you considered 11sp GX with a nicer shifter? It does actually tick all your boxes combined with better lifespan of cassette and no jockey-gate situation.

    Premier Icon Hob-Nob
    Free Member

    When is someone going to bring a wide range cassette out that’s a reasonable cost and doesn’t weigh 500g+

    Isn’t that GX Eagle?

    Premier Icon montgomery
    Free Member

    I finally wore out my XT M8000 cassette yesterday, 13 months on it.

    That, the aluminium 42T ring, is how bad it can get before it stops engaging (it just wouldn’t hold under load on steep hills in Calderdale yesterday).

    Unlike you, I’m taking what could be viewed as a downgrade – an all-steel Sunrace 11-46 cassette, coupled with a 34T chainring rather than my current 32T. Upshot is I get the same(ish) low gear, a faster high gear, and a more durable drivetrain that I won’t be throwing away just because one aluminium cog has lost it.

    Premier Icon whitestone
    Free Member

    Bikepacking.com reckon that the best bang-for-buck with SRAM 12spd is GX but with the XO1 shifter – http://www.bikepacking.com/gear/sram-eagle-review/

    I’ve two bikes set up 1×10 and one set up 1×11 all are 11-42 cassettes and I’ve not wanted for more range. Chainrings range from 26T or 28T on the fat bike to 30T/32T on the others. I’m only occasionally in the top gear on any of the bikes, similarly I’m rarely in the bottom gear – once you go below somewhere in the region of 17 gear inches then you start to expend more and more effort in staying upright.

    My natural cadence is in the 70-90rpm range http://www.bikecalc.com/speed_at_cadence shows that with a 30T chainring to 11T cog at 90rpm I’m doing 36kmh. I spin out at around 120rpm or 48kmh, I’ve only ever once managed to hold that sort of pace on the flat for ten minutes or so, hardly a reason to go 10T at the back.

    I’d sooner have a 12spd 11-42T or 11-46T that doesn’t have the huge gaps that the SRAM wide range cassettes have. Currently the only one like that is the Shimano 10-45T but at £250+ (for a f****** cassette!)

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Full Member

    Cassette/Chain/Ring/cable maybe some new jockey wheels and a spare afternoon in the garage and you’l wonder why you wanted to throw away £500

    Why does normal wear and tear always mandate a whole new drivetrain?
    I’d leave getting that extra an sprocket until you next buy a whole new bike, it’ll add to the novelty.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Full Member

    Has anyone consciously upgraded to 12spd and regretted it?

    No, and hope to be doing it again shortly.

    Premier Icon deanfbm
    Free Member

    No functional issues with the “upgrade” but doesn’t suit my “needs” the best.

    I didn’t use the range of a 10-50 cassette nor did I need all the gear steps, it all worked very well together but felt gears were wasted and the chainline compromised for no reason, also still can’t get over how massive eagle mechs are, how sloppy gx/nx eagle mechs are and the missive cost of the x01 and xx1. Cassettes are big and heavy went to –

    Sunrace 11-46 10sp cassetee, XT 11 speed mech, sram 11 speed shifter, 10 speed chain is where ive ended up, just that bit neater, quieter and consistent shifting with most of the range, lighter weight and better chainline.

    Premier Icon johnnystorm
    Full Member

    My Sunrace 11-50 11spd cassette meshed perfectly well with a new chain. Only the 50 is alloy (I think) so it should last ok as it won’t see too much action. Handy to have as a bail out of it all gets too much and still have a reasonable gear for tarmac sections.

    Premier Icon the00
    Free Member

    Thanks for your opinions everyone. I am glad to see advocates to both approaches…

    My chain is broken, twisted and dead. There is no rescuing it. I have run it and the cassette it to the ground. After 3 years of use it is time for replacement. For £150 it can get a refresh with new XT cassette, chain and rear mech (not immediately necessary, but will improve shift performance).

    I understand the ‘just upgrade when you get a new bike’ approach. But as I always only build up a trigger’s broom bike from parts, this is actually for a bike that is 9 months old and had the old drivetrain fitted to it. So I kind of feel like the new bike deserves some new kit.

    I think if XT 12spd was out, and if it didn’t weigh as much as GX Eagle and I could upgrade for ~£300, it would be a no-brainer.

    Premier Icon johnw1984
    Full Member

    Does GX Eagle really weight that much over XT? Seems to get specced on lightweight XC builds and doesn’t affect things much.

    Bike Discount.de have Eagle upgrade kits for around £220 (just need the freehub too).

    Premier Icon Scienceofficer
    Free Member

    When I looked at this over a year ago, GX eagle worked out a touch lighter than XT…

    I’m pretty pleased with the gear range and chain retention of eagle. X-sync 2 is loads better than the first version. Cassette is a bit of a lump and it’s not ideal for unsprung mass, but I’m not exactly a racing snake or ‘owt.

    Premier Icon windysurfer
    Free Member

    Took 12s Eagle off my new bike as the rear mech seemed to collect twigs and crap causing it to end up in the rear wheel.The GX Eagle rear mech seems just to flimsy.I Went back to 11 speed GX but probably didn’t give the Eagle a fair chance?

    Premier Icon the00
    Free Member

    Ha! Serves me right for making stupid assumptions. I though the GX cassette sounded heavy, but it is actually comparable to XT m8000. So GX Eagle looks like a no brainer, and XO1 an upgrade.

    Premier Icon johnw1984
    Full Member

    Love it when a plan comes together 🙂

    Premier Icon highpeakrider
    Full Member

    I had a 2 x 10 setup and my new bike came with 1 x 12.

    I preferred 2×10, the 1 times always seemed to be a compromise and left me changing between two finding one to low the other to high.

    Premier Icon jjprestidge
    Free Member

    Not sure I see the point. Eagle cassettes are either really expensive or really heavy, the mechs are vulnerable and the range is not really a killer point for me. 11 – 46 covers all of my needs, and, I suspect, those of most people in the UK.

    JP

    Premier Icon damascus
    Free Member

    I run 1×11 with xt shifter and mech on a hope cassette. I really like this set up but the hope cassette is about £150 rrp.

    I built a budget winter 29er fully rigid bike with a front mech on xt 10 speed with 11 32 cassette.

    As I ride a road bike I don’t mind front mechs. I’ve not noticed a difference on a mtb between 1×10 and 1×11 (I did on a road bike)

    I’ve found the 2×10 pretty good. No big jumps in gears. A granny when it gets tough. The rear cassette doesn’t weigh 500g and 10 speed is cheap as chips.

    It did make me think why I’d spent so much money for less.

    Premier Icon ojays
    Full Member

    Was a no brainier for me to upgrade to GX Eagle from SlX 11 speed. Cost me just over £100 after selling the old bits and getting the Eagle full set cheap through Halfords.

    It was more the 10 speed cog for me and to a lesser extent the 50. I use both each ride I’d say and in the majority a 32 front ring keeps me in the middle of the cassett for most situations. 11 speed 11-42 always seemed a comprimise to me from 2×11, but 12 speed 10-50 properly replaced 2x 11 for me.

    Shifting is better as well for me

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    11 – 46 covers all of my needs, and, I suspect, those of most people in the UK.

    On my XC MTB it would, but my adventure bike, a rigid 29er, it spends time on roads and 32/11 top gear isn’t enough so I’d want 34 or 36. But at the other end, if I’m winching up some big mountain climb at the end of a long day loaded up, 34/46 probably isn’t enough. That bike would need 2×11 but 12sp with a 10-50 cassette might also work.

    Premier Icon BearBack
    Free Member

    I’m trying to breathe more life into 11spd for this year with a garbaruk 10-48t cassette. You could do 11-46/48/50 on your current Shimano driver body and gain range and drop weight over your existing Shimano boat anchor.
    Recieved mine last week but not managed to ride it nor even index it before going away but it sure looks nicely made!

    I have had eagle gx on my last couple of winter bikes and its been much better than any SRAM experiences I’ve had previously, but I’m a Shimano guy so would be waiting for 12spd Shimano XT before buying any 12spd groupset not on an oem build.

    Premier Icon pickle
    Free Member

    I’ve just ditched my Shimano XT 11 speed for a GX full groupset.
    Absolutely love it, really impressed with it build and shifting.
    Bargain at £280 for full groupset

    Premier Icon SuperScale20
    Free Member

    I absolutely love it shifts so slick 12 gears cover my range and has completely breathed new life into my riding – Just go for it if not happy just sell and change back, I have previously always been XT and this is my first Sram setup but really pleased cant see me going back.

    Premier Icon johnw1984
    Full Member

    Eagle GX cassette is pretty much the same weight as the 11-46 Shimano cassette (some reviews state it’s actually slightly lighter).

    GX Eagle Cassette is usually around £130. Even the 50t is steel though, so tends to last longer (in my experience).

    Comparable 11-46 XT cassette is around £60, but if you regularly ride steep climbs, how long would you get out of that 46t alu cog before you’d need to replace the whole cassette?

    I get that some people don’t like the feel of Sram and vice versa. I like them both fine, but I prefer the feel of Sram shifters. Eagle GX is very well priced from a lot of retailers now, it’d be daft to spend similar on 11 speed in my opinion.

    Both me and my missus haven’t had any issues with rear mechs being vulnerable. No more than any other mech. We ride all sorts of terrain in all weathers and they have been flawless.

    Like I said earlier though, I’d happily buy 11 speed for a new build if it was significantly cheaper than Eagle.

    Obviously everyone’s experiences will differ depending on setup and bike.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Free Member

    how long would you get out of that 46t alu cog before you’d need to replace the whole cassette?

    Well that’s bigger than the alloy chainrings that I never have had to replace ever.

    Eagle GX is very well priced from a lot of retailers now, it’d be daft to spend similar on 11 speed in my opinion.

    Have you seen the price of XT lately?

    Premier Icon postierich
    Free Member

    Much difference in performance between GX and NX and weight

    Premier Icon chilled76
    Free Member

    Weight. Nx cassette is getting on for 700g iirc!

    Premier Icon djflexure
    Full Member

    Not really
    Gx casette is a bit neater/ lighter
    Guarantee you would have no idea what you were riding

    Premier Icon johnw1984
    Full Member

    Do chainrings usually wear out faster than the biggest cog on a cassette (being aluminium)? I’ve no idea of the forces involved to be honest.

    Just had a look at chain reaction at the XT groupset builder. Not bad really, managed to get it to £210 with a chainring.

    Thing is, it’s not much more expensive still to go GX Eagle (if cost is the issue). £225 minus the chain ring from Bikediscount.de. I suppose you’d have to factor in a freehub change though.

    But yeah, people will always have their favourites and it’ll be interesting to see the 12 speed Shimano stuff trickle down to Deore/XT level in the future. More competition only benefits us lot!

    One of my last bikes did have an 11 speed NX cassette… nearly did my back in picking that up! 🙂

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