11spd maintenance vs 12 speed replacement

old xt is significanty better than sram NX 12sp. i swapped to a 10speed Microshift Advent drivetrain and its been amazing - 46t cassette.

i`ve never got my sram 12sp to work (on 2 different bikes) it nearly works on the HT but not quite. its just too sensitive to everything and needs constant fettling. Never worked properly on teh full suss - i think teh chain growth and clutch made it wobble and it skiped all the time whatever i tried.

How does a current 12 speed low end groupset (NX) compare with a 7 year old higher end groupset (XT)?

Depends entirely on your own circumstances i guess,  if you routinely destroy kit, then it'll be problematic, but personally I've never had an issue with NX or Deore level kit

Will I feel much difference going from 42 to 46 to 50 at the back?

Yes, I think you will.

I've not had the issues that @VanHalen reports with 12sp SRM drivetrains, not suggesting he's not, just that my experience with 12sp kit is that's it's very much fit and forget, and has exceeded my expectations

no experience of NX 12spd personally but I'd probably stick with the XT if I couldn't budget for GX (which has been faultless from my point of view!) I've recently upgraded to GX AXS though as there are some deals around at the moment, that is the pinnacle of MTB shifting so far for me!

You could split the difference and use a deore 11-51 11s cassette. You’d probably need a matching mech but as far as I understand it that’s just a 12s rear mech rebadged- the cable pull from thw shifter works.

1. You will notice a fairly big difference by upping the tooth count at the back. You can obviously achieve the same "ease of gear" effect by putting a smaller chainring on your cranks at the expense of high speed gearing.

2. I've found 12-speed to be pretty reliable (XT for me, not SRAM). However, I would say that every 12 speed I've ridden is a bit more finicky than 11 or 10 speed were. Also a bit more susceptible to a wee bit of damage making shifting performance a bit rubbish. I am quite lucky in that I don't seem to be particularly hard on components, so it isn't too much of a stress for me.

3. The big advantage of 12 speed for me is the range of gears at the back, not the number. If you can get a decent range of gears (I think 11 to 48 is the biggest range that Microshift do), I'd go for that instead of 12 speed. Unfortunately, I'm large and "need" the 10 to 51 range of the Shimano XT 12 speed cassette.

So I'd say you'd definitely notice a change from 42-46 on the cassette. 42 was never enough for me with 11s (and I was riding a 30t front chainring) even on 27.5 (you don't say what wheel size you're riding which does have an impact)

The 12s stuff I've ridden was fitted with 32t chainrings.

Avoid NX if you ride tough terrain, it's soft

11-46 xt with 30t chainring works very well for me

Sunrace cassettes have a better spread of gears and work just as well and they last longer than Shimano (coz crappy gear spread means you overuse the biggest sprocket)

If it was NX 12 speed vs XT / SLX 11 speed I’d take the 11 speed.

I assume you’re thinking NX because of the free hub. If you want to run sram 12 speed you could run an NX cassette but with a GX mech and shifter.

If you go 11 speed I’d be tempted to pickup the new deore m5100 11 speed mech and cassette. You should be able to keep your existing 11 speed shifter and free hub and you’d get an 11-50 cassette then.

option 3, replace your worn cassette with another 11-42 cassette and get a smaller chainring to give you a low enough gear to stay seated when climbing

My wife’s last bike had 12 speed NX and it worked fine. You pushed the lever and the gears changed. You pushed the other one and they changed the other way.

Never had a problem with it. My 11 speed NX is equally reliable and problem free.

Can you no just fit a smaller chain ring on the front?

I've got Eagle NX on my bike. I'm pretty handy with the spanners and bought a hangar alignment tool, but still get shifting issue at one or both ends of the cassette pretty quickly. The only good thing about NX is it's going to be easy to swap to Shimano 10 or 11 when it's worn out because of the HG freehub.

Wow, loads of responses forgot how much I love the forum. Sounds like GX could be an option but NX a bit buttery. Would love to go AXS some day, budget allowing but that is for another day. Liking the idea of the new Deore Derailleur as an option too. Never used a sunrace cassette before, would love to know more about peoples experiences...

I'm a big fan of XT 11 speed. Ran it for years, but my new bike came with 12 speed GX and I have to say, doubt I'll go back to Shimano now. It's brilliant. Super light shifter feel, no faffing with servicing the clutch when it gets sticky. Gear range is brilliant for where I ride.

Definitely worth the upgrade over 11 speed XT.

I’ve never had an issue with NX or Deore level kit

NX Deore only similarity is the price point... quality wise SX is a 12sp equivalent of Tourney and NX Altus.
Both NX and SX are made to fail.. the soft plastic bushing in the mech will go first...
This is poor marketing because...

The only good thing about NX is it’s going to be easy to swap to Shimano 10 or 11 when it’s worn out because of the HG freehub.

+1

Never used a sunrace cassette before, would love to know more about peoples experiences…

I put a 11sp 11-46 on for Trancend Epic a few years ago thinking I'd swap back to a genuine Shimano after... I didn't and I have bought Sunrace ever since....

I've found 12 speed to be more finicky than 11 generally. I've got my 12 speed working nicely now though and I'd agree that my AXS setup is as good as I've ever had. My issues were before that (XT & Deore). Mainly though I think hanger alignment and B tension have to be absolutely spot on. I'm somewhat skeptical that cable/mechanical is the sole source of bad shifting or skipping when cables are new and it's just indexed, but electronics do take cable issues out of the equation.

That said, I still have 11 speed on the go on one bike - shimano with a Sunrace 11-46 - and it works like a dream despite its age. I'd echo the above Sunrace cassette experiences - they work well and last well.

As above, the big difference is range. If 11-46 is enough I'd stick with 11s.

Never used a sunrace cassette before, would love to know more about peoples experiences…

Poor. We had 3 and I snapped the lift teeth off the 46 sprocket on both the ones that went on my bike. And I thought the rest wore quicker than Shimano.

Both NX and SX are made to fail.

Not in my experience. The NX chainring is steel rather than aluminium for the other SRAM 12sp group-sets, and the mech hasn't needed any more adjustment than either the GX or XO1 that I have.  Perhaps that makes me a sucker for "big" drivetrain companies, but I doubt they make stuff "to fail"

Not in my experience. The NX chainring is steel rather than aluminium for the other SRAM 12sp group-sets, and the mech hasn’t needed any more adjustment than either the GX or XO1 that I have. Perhaps that makes me a sucker for “big” drivetrain companies, but I doubt they make stuff “to fail”

I'm not talking about the cassettes... the rear mechs are designed to fail on the B-bolt...
As I say total marketing fail, the idea is you keep buying replacement SX/NX mechs but you can just replace the B-bolt assembly with a metal GX/XX one on one side OR they made it incredibly easy to upgrade to 11sp shimano on the other because of the HG freehub...

As I said I don't think marketing really thought it through as they are just driving people to Shimano..

As they wear out/break I'm swapping all the families bikes to Microsoft Advent x 11-48. 3 done so far and all working great.

Shimano 11s 11-46 SLX now cheaper than Sunrace shocker. £55 for that plus £16 for a KMC X-11 chain is still reasonable in these crazy times.

My 12s SLX microspline on the other bike will be double that.

I'd go 12sp with one of the 11-50/1/2 cassettes. imo the range you get with 12 speed is 'all you'll ever need', whereas as you say IMO 42 and even 46 is often not quite enough, 50/1/2 with a 34 chainring is about as slow as I can pedal uphill.

10 at the bottom is nice, but 11 is fine too.

You can get 11sp 11-50 cassettes - I've got a ZTTO one that *just* works with an XT8000 (bonus, it's pretty light), you might need to get one if those hangar thingys. As others have mentioned a 12sp Shimano mech apparently works 11 speed too, so that's an option.

I thought 12 speed cassettes needed a new hub?

I thought 12 speed cassettes needed a new hub?

There are 12 speed cassettes for all three of the spline standards. So both SRAM and shimano have their newer standards to take a 10t top gear but they also offer cassettes which max out at 11t on a HG freehub.

12sp cassette & new wheels - depends. Shimano yes but sunrace seemingly do 12sp on HG fitment so no freehub swap required.

FWIW i’ve chatted to so many people on the trail bitching about how finicky 12sp is compared to 11sp. Tolerances are getting so tight that the slightest wear seems to show up with crap shifting.

If i were you, i’d get and 11-46 or even 11-50 Sunrace cassette and stick 11sp. Just dont run KMC chains. Recently they’re crap. SRAM or shimano chain. Personally i preferred the sram chain to shimano with my sunrace / shimano mix. Seemed to have a little more internal width so a bit more forgiving of muck and grime.

XT mech will run 11-50 no issues. Or at least my last 3 bikes ran like that despite being told repeatedly 50 is too big.

There are 12 speed cassettes for all three of the spline standards. So both SRAM and shimano have their newer standards to take a 10t top gear but they also offer cassettes which max out at 11t on a HG freehub.

Thanks!

I had a 12 speed nx drivetrain equipped bike for 18 months and it was fine. The mech lasted longer than the frame but that’s another story.
Now got both my mtbs on shimano 11s. Both 29er.
Hardtail is m7000 SLX mech shifter and 11-46 cassette. 32 chainring 170mm cranks.
Fs is deore m5100 shifter (because ispec ev) with 11-51 deore 5100 cassette and 6100 “12s” mech. 32 chainring. 165 cranks.
There is a noticeable difference in the bottom end gear and the spacing is better on the 11-51 so get one of those if buying a new 11s cassette. They were £50 at merlin recently, out of stock now. Whichever 11 or 12 speed chain is cheapest and any 12speed mech or deore 5100 which is same shape will work.
This is what will be going on the hardtail when it’s time for a new cassette.

Is that right re: shimano?

Sram is hd but i thought shimano is micro spline only for their cassettes?

You can get after market 12sp that as you say dont do down to 10T.

Cassette Standards

Never used a sunrace cassette before, would love to know more about peoples experiences…

Poor. We had 3 and I snapped the lift teeth off the 46 sprocket on both the ones that went on my bike.

E-bike or poor shifting technique?

My Sunrace MX8 11-46 cassette two weeks ago with 3600km on it (plus another 300km since I took that pic). Next one already in the box ready to go. Minimal chain maintenance, no chain swapping nonsense. It's outlasted two chainrings, and a set of XT jockey wheels that got changed when I first installed it.
[img] [/img]

Shimano 12s cassettes are all microspline yes.
You can get the 11-51 11speed deore m5100 for hg freehub which gives the low gears at the loss of the 10t cog. It weighs a ton though.
But either the sram nx 11-50 12s cassette or This sunrace 11-51 Work with hg freehubs. Plus who knows what on eBay/Ali express

Oh sorry, I thought shimano did a bottom end HG 12s too. Anyway, there are 12s HG options and they're cross-compatible.

However, if you're going to 12s, 10 vs 11 on top gear is a big change to the total gear range. It doesn't really matter which end that change is on because you choose the chainring to suit.

If you don't mind spending then a Garbaruk 11-50T works well with their extender cage. Did this and put on their OSPW and 34T oval and kept to 11-speed. 50T on rear let me go 34T oval on front - a boon when riding to the trails