I may jump on that too but the field is a little small at the moment. If we can get 15 in the C then with a few mins to go, maybe.... but i'm still favouring the 13:15 race.
Odd, every other ****er dropped me on the hill (took 8 sec off my PB, still out of the back 🙁 )Scaredypants i was in your race but i was so short of time i missed start off, i caught you up at the bottom of the first hill but i had expanded so much energy i was fading
Have a good race !
I just have water and don't really eat on the turbo, but then I only tend to ride up to 2 hours, any longer then I might have a Cliff bar or something.
I also tend to ride without anything to eat, so lunch at 12.30ish, ride at 6-7pm. I might occasionally have a cereal bar or something just before if I'm feeling hungry.
Think I'll blast it home and try to nip into the 17:05 WBR hilly race tonight. Field looked small this morning, but it's the only one I can squeeze in today, need to be back out the door by 18:30 🙄
A great cagey battle going on RIGHT NOW, involving blader and bigfoot
Weeksy TTing, bit like me earlier - crack on mate !
Mine turned into a massive battle of wills. The guys in my class were just WAY quicker than me. I'm starting to feel more like a D than a C.
I ended up with 2.5 laps TTing it, 1 of them was slow as hell and putting out about 180w average, i'd lost the plot completely. Last lap i put in closer to 2.4-2.5 average and got my head back, but i was fighting not to bail out early for a lot of the race.
Tough day at the office today.
That was a tough race, bigfoot and the other 2 cat A riders did me in the sprint for the line. It was a weird race as through the sandy bit was always fast and virtually every little hill/bump had me pulling over 500w as everyone sprinted up them and elsewhere was just a nice fast cruising pace. I didnt notice anyone going off the front but i think 1 B rider managed to slip away so i think i have silver, cant get on to ZP at the minute.
I very rarely do this unless the field is really small or I feel I've actually got a shot of catching up with the group in front. I'd much rather slow down & recover until someone catches me up, then share the work (or just draft them 🙂 ). Probably won't lose any places that way, plus it's less soul destroying!I ended up with 2.5 laps TTing it
I was 7th of 7 🙂
there was no-one to wait for 🙂
Fair enough, nothing for it but head down in that case!! It's both good (from a race integrity POV) and bad (because you can't catch a tow from a random!) that there's now the option for rides/races to "turn off" non-participating riders!
Is ZP down as i cant seem to get on it?
Same here buddy.
Finding my actual results hard to take at the moment. Back in May/June i was finishing races with 290w average, now i'm struggling to finish at 250w. Is that my weight which is 4kg up, is that my fitness or is that the 29er instead of the roadie.... I wish i had the answer.... But when i ride outdoors i feel my fitness is right up where i need and expect it to be.. So i don't think my fitness is a complete disaster.
I'm trying not to dwell on it, but it's not easy.
Doesn't make the racing less fun though 🙂 You just race who's around you... Sadly, today the field was small, but i have my lad for Footy training tonight, so no window to race.
Well done to all 3 - weeksy in particular; that's a hard game to play
I did that in my race - we paired up and caught the lad ahead but I knew I was dead in the water as they were both much faster up the hills. Right enough, they blew me away and raced it out for the place, nearly a minute up on me. I think that tactic only works best if you're good up the hillsI'd much rather slow down & recover until someone catches me up, then share the work
(yep, zp down here too)
think that's what I need to learnevery little hill/bump had me pulling over 500w as everyone sprinted up them
236 points: http://www.cycligentrankings.com/vcr/client/result/12101/27632/lifetime/all/1/1/0/0/1/1
Woo.
I think that'll get me a promo to elite 🙂
We had a weird one in Cs.
Y.Yass was over 2 mins down on our group of 5, that turned into a group of 2.... Suddenly, Yass was averaging 3.9w/kg+ for the next 30 mins ! and ended up destroying me and the Danish guy, then the guy who was 1min 30 ahead of the Dane who by then was 45s clear of me.. lol.... I can see Yass getting a DQ.
Then again, there's another 2-3 in the Cat who may be on for a DQ too. There was some cracking banter
"Oi ..GUTS, why are you attacking everyone with 30km to go"
GUTS replied with "If you keep sitting on my wheel, i'll attack you"
Their reply was "That's ridiculous..."
"No guys, that's racing"... Was his reply to that.
But then in the end GUTS destroyed them all to win the Cat... but it was proper funny. Weirdly, at this stage i was sitting comfortably in the little group, my HR was floating around 160bpm, but we hit the kick after the sprint, just before roller coaster, and BOOM ! I was instantly destroyed, i mean losing 15s+ on the hill ! I think i was sticking out about 3.5w/kg and they're up around 5.0s ! Meh, i don't have 5.0 in me these days...
You could if you allowed your body to rest and rebuild.
Racing each day is unsustainable.
But you know this and we've had this conversation many times 😆
Not racing every day. I've had 3 complete rest days along with 3 days of outdoors this month up to now. Admittedly 1 of them days was 5+ hours on the local trails, but i'm not racing constantly that's for sure.
Just looking on strava at some of the segments for that race and each uphill sprint was just shy of 500w avg over the 30 second segment, i felt like i did that over every roller! At one point on the big climb i was pulling 8w/kg and still lost a few seconds on the climb, some serious mountain goats out there.
My problem with that is that the Isaac gives me knee issues. So really jumping on it is a terrible idea, i had them when i was using it on the road, i had them when i was using it on Zwift, but i don't get them on the Parkwood. So the Issac is pretty much out of the discussion. But i know when riding it, you seem to be able to power along in a gear a lot easier. Could that be just the riding position, could that be the tyre which is this one ?
http://www.halfords.com/cycling/bike-parts/bike-tyres/halfords-semi-slick-bike-tyre-700x35c
Will the tyre actually make a difference ? I don't honestly know... I tried to put the Conti GP 4000 on but there was no way. I was debating picking one of these up http://www.halfords.com/cycling/bike-parts/bike-tyres/kenda-k193-kwest-bike-tyre-700x35c Which looks a lot smoother and can if the blurb is correct, be run at a higher pressure than the 80ish i have in the other one.. I wonder if it's worth trying just to even thing up a little ? Or am i just clutching at straws lol.
How is the isaac set up compared to the Parkwood? Is it worth taking measurements of all the key points.
Ideally you should be running a turbo specific tyre: https://www.jejamescycles.com/tacx-trainer-tyre-road-700x23c-rjr2117.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8I7AhM_t1gIV1rgbCh1ygQpXEAkYASABEgJkSvD_BwE
It's a softer compound so will get destroyed on tarmac.
It sounds like you just need to invest a little time in setting the isaac up properly. As above I'd take key measurements from the parkwood and work from there.
My data for the race shows it was just 13 big efforts and some easy riding in between with HR below 120 a few times. Didn't really enjoy it, the field was too small and every attempt at a breakaway was chased down rather than joined. If Zwiftpower is down then no points for it although I doubt if there would be many for such a small race and no chance to catch Nathan's recent score.
National TT champs at Thruxton on Sunday, so that was probably my last Zwift of the week.
Turbo tyre ain't going to fit on my MTB rims. Tried that.
Can't really go for the wheel either as its campag.
Its been setup as close as possible to my standard but for whatever reason I still get knee issues.
weeksy, I thought you had a kickr ? (wheel-off)
Bigfoot - there was some cruising in there for sure but every ramp required a fair amount of effort. My heart rate never really got below 143 but then again i am only a cat B so not really as fit as yourself. It was a small field but i kinda enjoyed the tussle of the hill sprints.
so, the only way is up ??I can see Yass getting a DQ
Well this all may sound a little mental, but gives me some fun in the afternoon. Went and pulled the rear wheel out of the Isaac and fitted it into the Parkwood.
First issue, the spokes hit the caliper, ok, so removed the caliper 🙂 Yeah i know, all a bit drastic, but it's only 2 bolts isn't it 🙂
So i then got wheel on and a quick tweak of the barrel adjuster and i can get the gears i need. Some at the bigger sprockets are all over the place, but Zwifting only needs 3-4 gears for me and i can get all 4 of the smaller cogs with 1 press of the shifter each.
Did a quick test, but the only way to really try it is to ride in anger, so there's a 4.05pm WBR 1 lap flat race. Obvioulsy being 1 lap it will skew my power outputs, but if i were to use an educated guess, using the current Parkwood wheel/tyre combo i'd be impressed if i could hit over 260w-270 average for the lap, so i'm going to experiment and see what i can hit.
Obviously my HR data will be high as it's a 1 lap flat out effort.... but i'm hoping i should see something anyway.
It certainly 'feels' quicker... Although how much of that is in my head, who knows 🙂
weeksy, I thought you had a kickr ?
No, a Snap.
weeksy, I thought you had a kickr ?
No, a Snap.
SNAP !
Scaredypants - LOL.
weeksy i think you need to test it for a week to have any idea if it works.
b1gf00t - Points wise are you using http://www.cycligentrankings.com/vcr/client/home as this is what I was referring to. I guess because of the huge field & amount of DQ's there was a hell of a lot of points up for grabs last night versus a normal race.
I think zwiftrankings feeds from Zwiftpower, but once it's back up and running everything should just pull through?
I decided testing today after already racing, along with a 3-4 hour ride planned outside tomorrow was a silly idea. So testing can wait now
Thats a better idea weeksy.
I went out my mtb again this afternoon. I feel like I’ve let the side down. 🙂
Think I’m going to have a day off tomorrow. That’s everyday this week either turbo or mtb, and my legs felt very heavy this afternoon. Still felt strong, but it felt like a real effort to get myself to do it where normally it’s just instant.
Big ride on the mtb again Sunday then back on zwift Monday after work.
Could be the gearing on the parkwood weeksy. I used to struggle to generate the speed/power on zwift with a 38t big ring when I was using a 29er. It was a bit better with a 48t ring but the 53 or what ever it is now is spot on.
Weeksy, you can use ERG mode to test it. Set it up one way, do an advanced spin down then use the Wahoo App (don't even need Zwift open) to set ERG mode to 200w.
Ride for five minutes. (It won't matter what gear you use- the Turbo will adjust the resistance for you)
Then set it up the other way, do an advanced spin down and ride ERG mode at 200w again.
That should offer you some insight. If it feels the same, then it's not a tyre/wheel/bike issue.
Weeksy, you can use ERG mode to test it. Set it up one way, do an advanced spin down then use the Wahoo App (don't even need Zwift open) to set ERG mode to 200w.
Ride for five minutes. (It won't matter what gear you use- the Turbo will adjust the resistance for you)Then set it up the other way, do an advanced spin down and ride ERG mode at 200w again.
That should offer you some insight. If it feels the same, then it's not a tyre/wheel/bike issue.
I've never used erg mode. I tried it when troubleshooting Snap issues, but my trainer wasn't registering.
When I think back, my previous efforts on parkwood were down on the Isaac, but only by 10-15w on the race distances, currently I'm 40-45 down on them. So a decent chunk of it is down to me I think.
I'll try it over weekend.
Here’s a physiological question some of you bright sparks might be able to answer.
Where is your power generated? I get that anaerobic fitness will let you sustain output for longer, but is pure power mostly down to the size of your leg muscles?
nathb, yes, those are the points I am chasing. I mainly ride in the daytime when there are less points around, and less to lose. The results from today have been captured by zwiftpower and will be revealed when it is up and running again, so I may gain a couple more points.
Yeah muggo - power is muscular (legs, arse, core a bit) but sustained power needs cardiovascular fitness
If you look at your heart rate during both efforts it'll tell you quite a lot, I should thinkWeeksy, you can use ERG mode to test it. Set it up one way, do an advanced spin down then use the Wahoo App (don't even need Zwift open) to set ERG mode to 200w.
Ride for five minutes. (It won't matter what gear you use- the Turbo will adjust the resistance for you)Then set it up the other way, do an advanced spin down and ride ERG mode at 200w again.
That should offer you some insight
I was thinking the same too. Plan will be 5 mins at 200w and 5 at 250w assuming I can change on the fly.
Then rest for 15 min to get to resting hr and repeat it.
See what results I get.
Cheers scaredy. Just wondering if I can increase power rather than have to cut back on the Stella and pies 😀
mate, have you any idea what's in stella and pies? pretty much PURE ENERGY, that's what. Now power is energy / time, so what you need is to practice getting them down quick, rather than dabbling at it in some leisurely loser fashion
Believe me I’m a ****ing expert when it comes to Stella and pie consumption 8)
[b]So do people move their FTP's down over the winter months[/b], or just leave it with their summer bests? I think mine has dropped by 24w along with gaining 3kg!! This is in line with recent races and what strava is telling me.
I'll a little begrudged doing an FTP test as I think it's a waste of time/potential race as I'm not training for anything specifically at the moment??
My FTP isn't of significance as I don't use the training progs.
I have done one ftp test this year and that will be it as i dont expect it to change by very much at all as i tend to do the same amount of cycling in both summer and winter and my weight is pretty stable. Oh yeah forgot to mention ftp test is vomit inducing so in no hurry to do another one, may be thats the real reason i wont be changing mine
I much prefer a race to a test. I pick a TT "race" and find out that way; no drafting so it's "pure" but also something to look at as well as having a bit of motivation/competition
You can judge it but TR calls for one every few weeks. They don't get easier but pacing gets simpler.
I've got a few weeks grace yet I think 🙂
Weeksy, you can use ERG mode to test it. Set it up one way, do an advanced spin down then use the Wahoo App (don't even need Zwift open) to set ERG mode to 200w.
I must be missing something, I can't manage this!
I did a cracking woodland MTB ride today. Just getting lost as much as possible, it was epic.
I got a 3rd overall on a segment, I wasn't actually trying!
Can't manage it how?
You need to get your cadence going beforehand ideally and then switch it on and as long as you keep your cadence steady, it will adjust the brake to maintain 200w.
Slowing down your pedalling too much will cause it to overcompensate and the resistance can bring you to a halt. At 70rpm +, it should work fine?
In simple terms, I go in the wahoo fitness app and can't get it to retailer a speed or power. If I start a workout, the only thing it register is the time ticking up. I removed device and added as a ble device, then removed and added as ant+, nothing.
If I then end the workout it shows my power and speed but nothing live.
However even if I could, I don't know how you're getting the power setting either.
Essentially, I'm missing everything lol.
Ah lol!!
Ok, just create a Zwift custom workout with one block at your chosen wattage and then check the ERG button 🙂
I tried that, but, it appears I'm a bit daft. Ran out of time though as I was heading out. Will try again.
You can do it in the Wahoo app. Start a workout then swipe to this screen:
[img] 
[/img]
and select the Erg tab 🙂
Swipe? Ooooh. Maybe that's my issue. No swiping. Lol
My FTP has just gone up 41w, I assume that happens every week if I train consistently 😆
Niiice!
My man Reg did 112 miles today on Zwift 😮
Not sure I ever going to bother getting my 100 mile achievement badge?
He gave me a kudos today actually.
Today's ride as always showed how much better trails are than zwifting. But in the reverse, it showed how important Zwift is for my speed!
So much testosterone flying around this morning, with about 10 riders flying off the front.
How a bunch of adult men can't read and follow simple instructions is beyond me... anyway 31 riders started 10? kept together and finished together, bar the usual 2km final sprint.
Was good for the legs anda fellow STW'er was in the bunch too!
Testosterone was pretty damn low in my garage.
Did a workout (the wringer) that I've largely managed before but couldn't make the last 2 efforts (it's 12 repeats of something very like 2xFTP for 30 seconds, repeated every 2 minutes or so).
Going to do a few more of them - I like to think that it'll help my racing, esp when the bastards all rag it up the hills
The wringer was one of the workouts I used to do fairly regularly. That and Jon’s mix. I was told I wasn’t to do them anymore when the kids are home as the language was atrocious.
Amazing how quick 30 seconds feels when it’s a rest and how long it feels when you’re going for it.
Are those workouts on trainerroad or zwift?
I may have to try a few of them, they sound evil enough to have peaked my interest.
Well that was an exceptionally interesting race for me, well at least i thought so.
After yesterdays longish MTB ride i thought "i can't see how i'm performing so badly on Zwift, i feel strong and fast"
So i jumped on the 4:30PM WBR 4 lap race. However, to put things to bed in my head, i used the Isaac, set the pressure, set it with a Spindown test, then jumped on.... tiny warm up as i only jumped on with 2 mins to spare.
Off we went... Legs felt good, HR felt good, after the first 1/2 warm up lap we'd split C into 2 major groups, our group was the lead group and 12s ahead of group 2... we were 11 riders in C and 5-7 B's i think, so quite a decent group.
In many ways, the next 3 laps were massively boring from a race report perspective, i kept my HR at about 161 average on the laps, but interesting up Horesguards hill i was 2nd/3rd quickest of the group, easily sticking in 4.3-4.5w/kg up it, with a couple of feathers, even more than that... But coming to the top in P2 usually. I was consciously letting other lead and sitting in for the majority of the laps. I lost ground by the hairpin somehow as my avatar lost momentum soft pedalling out of it and i was suddenly 2s down on my bunch, but a quick burst i caught them again and sat in. With 1/2 a lap to go, we'd dropped 1 guy, so we were a group of 9 now for the lead. One fell burst off the bunch with 3km to go, i let him go, which turned out to be a mistake as in the end he won C by about 9s ! Damn.. But i thought the pack would pull him back in.... In the last 1km i grabbed an Aero PU and went hard.... but only ended up dragging 3-4 other with me ! Damn again ! I battled but ended up 5th in the group.
After DQs etc and 1 B rider in our bunch, i ended up 2nd !
My power was 276w average... now that's not quite my best ever.... but it's certainly not far away and i was deliberately hiding for many parts... but it's pretty much shown me that i've actually NOT lost form. BOOM !
Whether it's the tyre or the bike, i'm guessing at the moment it's more the bike... but a bit of both. However, it means many of my results lately have been a bit bogus and not a true representation of where my training is... Which is actually what i hoped and felt would be the case.
https://www.zwiftpower.com/race.php?id=13383
I'll sleep better tonight.
Ahhh man, I was in that race too, had no idea you were.
I ended up in the second group, didn't want to push too hard as I was feeling a bit pukey after eating 10 fish fingers about 15 mins prior to starting. Like you said, it was pretty uneventful. We managed to reel in a few guys, but mostly we stayed together for the whole race then as we crossed the roundabout before the finish straight I started to ramp up, aiming to hit hit about 500w for the last 500m or so, but a few of the guys managed to cling on and then just out powered me for the last 20m or so. I should have gone slightly later, I just couldn't keep it going. Looks like I'm 8th after DQs etc. Not too bad really, I'm pleased as I'm definitely not a flat ground kind of rider.
I saw you buddy, we joined the pen around the same time.
You seemed to be doing a fair bit of work on the front of your group that's for sure.
Whether it's the tyre or the bike, i'm guessing at the moment it's more the bike... but a bit of both.
I'm curious. Why do you think just changing your bike on the turbo would produce markedly different power? Is one of your bikes set up incredibly badly or something? Seat height miles out maybe? Or is there something like a binding brake robbing power between your legs and the roller? Just intrigued.
The Parkwood is a trail 29er, so totally different riding position, when on it, the feeling of drive/power is massively better, you just pedal and the power goes up. It's almost as though on the Isaac you get free power, maybe the riding position means you use other muscles a bit more?
I'll test it with the continued gp4000 wheel in the Parkwood in the next few days, I think it will end in the middle of both in terms of power/performance.
Do you need to do some sort of calibration every time you swap tyres? Just curious having gone from a battered roller-based trainer to a wheel-off Kickr, which eliminates the whole tyre thing completely. Anyway, I guess if it works and them's the numbers, then them's the numbers 🙂
I do one each time I swap bikes or tyres yes. I'd done half a dozen Spindowns in last 6 weeks along with swapping the Snap as other one was faulty.
I think that being down on the drops seems to make me engage my arse muscles better, gving more power (in fact, when I shoved my TT frame on there that was even more marked - I can't sustain it for very long so I guess that "shows" it's muscular, but the power for given perceived effort definitely goes UP for me when I'm head-down)
Course, might also be psychological and I just don't pedal as hard when I'm sat up
SO who's playing and when this week ?
Im tempted with a WBR 4 lap flat... but that's mostly because Muggo is playing at 5:05pm today it seems and he kicked my arse last week... i'm tempted to try for revenge 😉
We'll see how the legs feel for the rest of the day. 4 laps of Watopia Flat is physically quite tough for me at the pointy end of C, even if i used the Isaac. It's about 1hour dead for me best, techincally 59:22 for a race i finsihed 2nd to an STWer 🙂
Might do the KISS 8pm races this week on Tues and Thurs.
On the cramp front: testing out a new product this week, will report back if it works.
Depending on how all this crap with my car pans out, I might have to *gulp* commute by bike this week, which will mean I probably won't fancy dragging my sorry arse onto the turbo.
May ride tonight though, as I've managed to scrounge a lift. That said, nothing is tickling my fancy late on.
Use your commute as a warm up 🙂
I just did the WBR flat race and it was a disaster. BIGFOOT was in the race so i thought i might be able to hang on to him for a while, errr no was the answer. My legs went from underneath me after just 6 miles which wasnt even a lap, i just had no legs or fight in me so ended up plodding around on my own and it was torture, i had to freewheel any little downhill i could just for a rest. Unusually as well i went through a full 750ml bottle of water where as normally i would only have 150ml at the most so i guess i wasnt hydrated or fuelled enough, i will never know and tomorrow is another day so i will try then.
I finished 4th but thats only because it was a small field, i was 4 minutes slower than last week on the same course! Bigfoot looked like he was there at the death even though he had a national TT yesterday!
IT's strange isn't it how you can go from hero to 0 over a couple of days, one day you're flying, then 2-3 days later you're dying a thousand deaths looking at your power drop and your HR that won't respond....