Zwift, my journey, my weight and my fitness.

i don't think its saying its not useful. it's just not everything.

knowing what I can maintain for 5/10/20 mins

That's your power profile, not your FTP.

I'd say the article is more a warning about both blindly following a generic plan with interval targets based on percentages of FTP, and also about falling into the typical Jan/Feb turbo trap.

I think Zwift presents a good solution to the turbo trap, especially with a smart turbo, getting you riding far more dynamically (and more representative of outdoor riding) than you would usually do during typical turbo sessions. Just need to keep an eye on position to ensure specificity.

Edit... also...

and at what cost

This is a really important one that isn't measured much. Riding fast outdoors usually involves repeated hard efforts while riding at or near your limits. Understanding how hard you can go for short durations and how quickly you can recover and do it again is really useful.

Not sure what your video is showing Nath but I would probably try and log the data to get a better comparison.

Also I'd run up above 200w as any difference in readings may be different at different power levels.

When I was testing my Elite trainer I saw (once the fluid had warmed up) a pretty good match at 200w but it was 40-50w optimistic at 300w...!

Hopefully the image below shows up.
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I think Zwift presents a good solution to the turbo trap, especially with a smart turbo, getting you riding far more dynamically (and more representative of outdoor riding) than you would usually do during typical turbo sessions.

It's the one (well, IMO the one) major weakness i have as a rider, i really need to work/train on the hard intensity and recovery as quickly as possible.
Having been using the dumb turbo lately that's probably not helped me even more so... So once the Snap arrives (and the leg recovers) it's something i really hope to focus on.

@mrblobby - ah but my first FTP wasn't smooth (started at 700w lol) I was properly going for it. So I did get decent 5/10/20 min data from it. A better planned out FTP wouldn't have granted.

@richp - Ah what software is that again? I was just following weeksy's video for his comparison.

i really need to work/train on the hard intensity and recovery as quickly as possible.

i just used an app called ipwatts on my phone to log the ant+ data streams (provided your phone has ant+) and then plotted the above in excel

Bah, logged in to go exploring the volcano and ended up in Richmond

Same here - was quite looking forward to the Volcano too!

Ah not available for ios @richp 🙁

Cheers though!

Using the power of the internet, calf strain level 2... 2-3 weeks with no exercise ! Reading the symptoms i think it's a Level 2, not a level 1.... Certainly not a level 3.... But 2 weeks... DAMN... i'm not sure i can manage that hahahaha.

I had a couple of calf strains from running that took ages to recover well enough to run, however for me I found I could recover to the point where I could cycle without problems much quicker - in fact that's what got me back on the road bike last summer, as I could ride the bike without any issue but running was still a problem.

Any thoughts on A cycleops fluid pro 2 trainer.
I'm going to cancel my order for a neo as we have found nd out we are moving in 4 weeks time! And need to save some cash.
Is anyone here using one of these? I know there not controlled by zwift, but by the look of it they are a lot quieter than others??

If I was going fluid non-controlled, I'd go [url= http://www.sigmasport.co.uk/item/Kurt-Kinetic/Road-Machine-20-Smart-Turbo-Trainer/ALXO?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=base&co=GBR&cu=GBP&gclid=CK3L5di53dECFQcQ0wodPfIM3w&gclsrc=aw.ds ]Kurt Kinetic with InRide[/url]. Really well designed unit and apparently very consistent for a fluid. The InRide system is meant to give very consistent power readings too.

^^^^

I've got one of those to sell if anyone is interested?

I think the Kurt Kinetic resistance profile is quite well-defined and documented so supposedly zwift et al could easily infer power just from wheel speed - I have a really old roadmacihne and it came with a power meter that was just a wheel speed sensor and a head unit

Any thoughts on A cycleops fluid pro 2 trainer.
I'm going to cancel my order for a neo as we have found nd out we are moving in 4 weeks time! And need to save some cash.
Is anyone here using one of these? I know there not controlled by zwift, but by the look of it they are a lot quieter than others??

I have a fluid 2 (have had 3 technically counting two uses of the lifetime warranty over 6 years), and they are solid, have a nice realistic feel to them, and are fairly quiet.
However i don't rate them at all for v-power type usage - you need a well tuned sense of RPE. Of the 3 units, they have all had different resistance curves, and all had different warm-up behaviours.
Now this sort of stuff is common to all fluid type trainers, but as mrblobby says, the Kurt Kinetic has a reputation for being the least effected by temperature.

What about a vortex £280 after BC discount http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/tacx-vortex-smart-trainer/rp-prod125671

think the Kurt Kinetic resistance profile is quite well-defined and documented so supposedly zwift et al could easily infer power just from wheel speed -

The InRide bit allows you to do a calibration based on rolldown (it's basically working out how much resistance is in the fluid at operating temp) which eliminates some of the variances in wheel speed only calculations.

Had my zwift setup running for just over a week and today I did my first workout session, day 1 of the 12 week FTP builder program.

I've spent the first few days just riding around on the courses and getting used to being on the bike after quite a long absence. I've only managed a handful of rides this year due to work and health issues.

Surprised just how quickly the first session went on the program, 50 minutes seemed to fly by. Tomorrow looks to be a little more challenging with some higher FTP bursts thrown in it would seem. I've never done anything like this before so I'm probably making a lot of beginner mistakes (just as long as I don't end up attempting The Pretzel again, not a great way to start my second day on Zwift 😳 ).

My Tacx turbo has developed the grinding at low RPM issue but I'm holding on to it for the time being and will see how bad it gets.

think Zwift presents a good solution to the turbo trap, especially with a smart turbo, getting you riding far more dynamically (and more representative of outdoor riding) than you would usually do during typical turbo sessions.

Only started last weekend and I'm hooked for that very reason.

Did the 18 mile figure of 8 last night and thought I was about to die, resistance on the Kickr Snap really worked, the short 10% incline felt a lot harder than the 6 or 7% elsewhere.

I could have just set the resistance on the old trainer but it's dull, at least with Zwift the course feels more natural and there's that thing of being able to see the top of the hill and just keeping pedalling.

I suppose I'll have a go at the workouts and racing eventually but for now I'll just enjoy the ride.

The racing is ADDICTIVE - even at c/d cat levels. Ive never raced bikes in real life and probably never will (time/ability/other sports preferred)

My brothers joined Zwift and we did our first race together. Climbing up the volcano on the limit, attacking each other. I pushed too hard just before the mast and then he did me - hard to recover on the 13% bit. Only difference from real life was I couldn't squirt water at him. Same result as in real life as well 🙁

Just because your not a roadie racer don't dismiss the racing.

Anyone on EVR Europe tonight?

Cutting it a bit fine if they are! Had thought about the kiss iTT but only just got the kids to bed 🙁

It's being streamed live on YouTube! Allegedly

Loads of races are streamed Mashiehood. Probably 15-20 per week on Beam, Twitch, FB live and Youtube.

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Well the SZR race earlier was awesome. 348 entrants and Zwift was glitch free for a change. I dug deep and managed to finish 13th in cat A. I'm chuffed with that as I managed to out sprint 10 or so people in the last 500 meters.

Well done Jimbob! thats a great fnish!

13th in A! Awesome.

Well done Jim
My race - terrible nothing in legs this eve it's been a long day
Time for a rest

Well done Jimbob! Nath has competition 🙂

Cheers fellas. Definitely felt like my strongest performance to date. Happy to be in this shape in January. Still have a couple of months until the real race season starts. Whooop

I have a fluid 2 (have had 3 technically counting two uses of the lifetime warranty over 6 years), and they are solid, have a nice realistic feel to them, and are fairly quiet.
However i don't rate them at all for v-power type usage - you need a well tuned sense of RPE. Of the 3 units, they have all had different resistance curves, and all had different warm-up behaviours.
Now this sort of stuff is common to all fluid type trainers, but as mrblobby says, the Kurt Kinetic has a reputation for being the least effected by temperature.

Ok, so if a fluid trainer isn't the best option due to inaccuracies. How does the Tacx Vortex compare noise wise to a fluid trainer?

Anyone here using a vortex, do they read fairly accurate?

Anyone on EVR Europe tonight?

I was there, but I was just taking it easy as my legs still felt a bit tired after a race on the Mountain 8 course yesterday. I would have done a group ride, but none at a suitable time, and I always find Richmond a bit boring to ride around without a target. Cruised around for most of the race, and went flat out on the last bit.

Just to agree with the comments above about fluid trainers. I used to use a Cycleops Fluid 2 trainer, and compared to the powertap rear hub I was using on it the resistance varied as the fluid warmed up. It was very noticeable after a hard interval. I don't think they will ever be consistently accurate on zpower.

Ok, so is the Vortex similar to my current (very old and worn) cycleops mag trainer, as in the way it actually works magnets vs fluid?

I'd still get fluid over a mag, mag's just feel horrid if you're use to a fluid. If you want a fluid that reports consistent power, just get the Kurt Road Machine with iRide.

If you want to play Zwift on the cheap get a Vortex (but it is just a mag trainer.)

Well the SZR race earlier was awesome. 348 entrants and Zwift was glitch free for a change. I dug deep and managed to finish 13th in cat A. I'm chuffed with that as I managed to out sprint 10 or so people in the last 500 meters.

Great work, I'd be well pleased with that!

Indeed, i've never regretted getting a fluid 2 as it really has a great feel to it, it's just not great for estimating power.

Did anyone notice a change to Trainer Difficulty following the latest update, or is it just me?
Was riding up some of the steeper inclines at Richmond at what felt like a near constant effort but just going slower and slower whereas, previously, the resistance would ramp up, my cadence would drop and I could grind up at a decent speed.
Anyway,after the race, I upped the difficulty so hopefully it will be more to my liking next time...

In other news, I was DQ'd from cat C and requested to try cat B next time. Not sure whether to be pleased or not! 😕

r8jimbob88
Well the SZR race earlier was awesome. 348 entrants and Zwift was glitch free for a change. I dug deep and managed to finish 13th in cat A. I'm chuffed with that as I managed to out sprint 10 or so people in the last 500 meters.

Congrats, sounds like a good race!

crosshair
Well done Jimbob! Nath has competition

🙄
I've been shying out of Zwift racing recently, it's too painful and I need my legs for the weekend 😆

Regarding the vortex - as I understand it's position in tacx's offerings - a beefed up slightly more expensive but more reliable Tacx Flow. Happy with mine so far.

In other news, I was DQ'd from cat C and requested to try cat B next time. Not sure whether to be pleased or not!

I can't see how you'd not be pleased... You've improved, increased, gone harder and faster... that's got to be GREAT !

My Kickr Snap is arriving today... 🙁 and 🙂 at the same time.

I'm likely to get Mrs Weeksy to test/calibrate for us.

You can add another level of realism to zwift, shouting and ringing a cow bell whilst chasing her up the hill!

Did anyone notice a change to Trainer Difficulty following the latest update, or is it just me?
Was riding up some of the steeper inclines at Richmond at what felt like a near constant effort but just going slower and slower

Had my best race so far yesterday (Team Italy Gladiators, randomly) where I came 17/59 which I was pretty pleased at since it was uncategorised! Had a great battle for about 2/3rds of the race with one guy which really made me dig deep into my suitcase even though my legs wanted to give up! Finally broke him on the last hill. Zwift definitely pushes me beyond the point where I would've given up on Trainer Road! Also really satisfying to see my average w/kg creep up race on race!

Does anyone else really dislike the city loops? I have no motivation to ride at all when it's Richmond or London 🙄