Zwift, my journey, my weight and my fitness.

How does all this fit in with building a steady winter base

Well, I did an hour and forty minutes this morning. I was planning on 100km but I'm still feeling slightly rubbish after 3 weeks of cold.

BTW, my cleats finally arrived, so tonight for the first time ever i'll be riding Zwift in proper shoes and pedals insted of my 5 tens and flats.

How does all this fit in with building a steady winter base

It does seem a waste of riding time though to those of us who are more inclined towards a scientific training model.

[quote=mrblobby ]How does all this fit in with building a steady winter base

take the blue pill and there is no winter 😉

It does seem a waste of riding time though to those of us who are more inclined towards a scientific training model.

Go on... i'll bite... tell me more/how ?

I'm not a scientific/structured trainer/rider so more than happy to learn a bit within the thread too.

I've put in on average 6 hours a week on Zwift in the past 8 weeks, most of that has been 1 hour/1 15 in a session which is at 90% MHR riding average. Surely that can only be a good thing ? My waistline and general riding fitness seems to imply so anyway.

Go on... i'll bite... tell me more/how
...........
Surely that can only be a good thing ? My waistline and general riding fitness seems to imply so anyway.

However, from an actual training perspective, you are working far too hard far too often. A 75min race should be taking a full 48hrs to recover from in which time you can do no other useful training, and if you try to, you just end up compromising the quality of the session.

A proper training plan would include 'base building' which is generally lower intensity rides that focus on your ability to burn fat as fuel, along with some physiological changes in the muscles. The idea is to be riding as quickly and efficiently as possible without trying hard. This concept is often described as LSD (long slow distance), and traditionally, you wouldn't mix it with any intensity at all. A more modern approach does include a little intensity in the mix, and at this time of year would be looking to build on other fundamental abilities (like force production either via big gear intervals or in the weight room).
As you progress through the year and get closer to a target event, usually more intensity is added, but typically an experienced racer on a 10hr/wk training plan will probably only spend 2hrs working at the intensity you are doing for 6hrs a week.

Someone attempting to follow a scientific approach will probably have a plan that has a carefully measured volume in specific training zones designed to give maximum improvement on a targeted energy system for the minimum amount of fatigue (less fatigue means we can train more regularly). So as you can imagine, with all this planning in place, chasing random riders that go past or taking part in races every couple of days seems somewhat wasteful.

I do struggle with the concept of how i've raced at times. A week and a half ago i did a TFC race on the Friday, Gorrick on the Sunday, race on the Mond and Thurs... I wouldn't have thought that were possible, so maybe in some way i'm holding back in the racing.... Although you wouldn't think it.

p.s. I think 'untrained' may be a bit harsh, it's not like i sat on the bike for the first time in 10 years when i bought Zwift, i've been a regular rider for many years... but of course i get the concept that not all riding is good riding/training.

The biggest difference i think may be in attitude and ability to focus in that context. I couldn't sit and do 2 hours Z2 and not have a 'play' either on the road/trails or on Zwift, i just can't do it.. I'd get too bored too quickly. Whereas someone completely focused on training is of course perfectly able to do so.

You chart linked saddens me greatly 🙁

😉

I think 'untrained' may be a bit harsh

You chart linked saddens me greatly

Please don't waste time trying to tell Weeksy to periodise his training- I've been trying since 2012 and it hasn't sunk in yet 😀

Actually, I dug myself into a pretty big Zwift hole last winter but it was no different than the one I dug myself into by racing CX, XC and Brass Monkeys every weekend for 7 months solid the year before that 😉

I think anyone <7hrs per week can afford one or two Zwift races in 7 days- especially if one is the KISS 10 mile TT.
I've been targeting The Friday Criterium but the series is dragging on now- I'm only sticking with it because I'm leading the Lantern Rouge competition for the C cats 🙂

I do just two races a week, Tuesday at 18:30 or 20:00 depending on how I feel and the course and the TT. I always find Watopia Hilly difficult starting with a sprint followed by a hill before I have got warmed up. Managed to do 105km in 3h30 last Saturday which was better than going out in the rain but not something I want to repeat.

Not sure about Coggan's chart as I range from Cat 2 to off the bottom of the page on some columns.

Please don't waste time trying to tell Weeksy to periodise his training- I've been trying since 2012 and it hasn't sunk in yet

Well traditional periodisation isn't the only effective way to train (although it is the easiest to read up on). For me the more important thing is to have some sort of goal setting. Having a goal helps in two ways, it helps with motivation, and it helps identify the type of sessions you want to do to perform well in your event.

And right now, he's seeing great results from Zwifting, and clearly enjoying it, so with perhaps a caution to keep an eye on fatigue levels, then i'd say crack on 🙂

Not sure about Coggan's chart as I range from Cat 2 to off the bottom of the page on some columns.

That is a very generic version of the chart.
If you dig around on the web there's modified versions to suit different 'types' of rider.

@Fifeandy Amen to that 🙂

Not sure about Coggan's chart as I range from Cat 2 to off the bottom of the page on some columns.

It's very unlikely that you'll have anywhere near a straight line across the chart. E.g. while Wiggo might have world class FT he's probably further down the chart for 5s.

Also, have you properly tested your max for those durations or are you just taking you max values from a bunch of random rides?

And right now, he's seeing great results from Zwifting, and clearly enjoying it, so with perhaps a caution to keep an eye on fatigue levels, then i'd say crack on

Absolutely 🙂

It may not be the most effective way of training, but if it's getting you riding regularly and you're having fun then crack on and there will be plenty of summer smiles next year 🙂

Zwift workouts can be used as part of a structured training program (although I thought a gazzilion steady winter miles had been discredited now) but anyway you can do whatever plan you like or you can race or you can just go for a ride in the sun.

Easy, no need for war and peace on training.

@wilbert, check out recent studies into polarised training. Results show that not only has volume of easy riding in winter not been discredited, but suggests we should also be doing it throughout the rest of the year.

And apologies for the mini novel - came out longer than intended 😕

Well, let's see what happens tonight guys.

Maybe we should add an STW tag to our names too

I couldn't keep up with you on the flat the other day so I'd leave it on that setting if you're racing C or turn it down one for D 😀 /Bantermode

Lol I'm bemused by that as I didn't think we were going that fast on the flat dude.

I guess this layout tonight is about my best circuit though with only the one small hill.

Richmond Flat is even better than this. I miss Richmond 🙁

Yeah possibly so based upon profile but I've never ridden that one.

I noticed the other day on this course if I can put off 300w or so on the small hill it can make a huge difference on gapping someone. Question is, can I then come back to 2.6 without being destroyed.

Right. Sign in time

Tonights race was tough but fun as usual, 7 places better than last week, and really pleased with 16th especially as I missed a break and had to chase back for the last lap, did anyone else who uses a dumb trainer find there was a section where suddenly everyone disappeared into the distance? I was consistently in the bunch doing about 320w then at the same point every lap, everyone shoots off and I have to up it to 350w just to keep up. weird.

97th overall. Trying not to puke now

No mate, my dumb was fine.

http://www.zwiftpower.com/v2/race.php?id=1782

Last night was 4 min quicker than previous week. So got to be happy with that

Got Zwift set up last night & had a quick half hour blast this morning. Haha, it is awesome. Nice one weeksy. Why didn't you start this thread a couple of years ago?! As someone who habitually fails to get the most out of TR every winter I reckon straight away this will work better for me. The free ride mode is basically a mass game of Silly Commuter Racing! Will give a proper race a crack in the week.

I've ordered the speed cadence sensor and a USB doodah and looking forward to setting this myself. Wish I'd known about zwift before.

Zilog, I was a cynic for a long time after taking the mick out of Crosshair for his nerdiness.

Mountain route last night. It's a long way to the top.

Still toying with the idea of a smart trainer and whether I need it. At the moment just shifting up into the big ring to drop the cadence on climbs and seems to be working ok. Be nice if they built a roll down calibration for the kinetic inride into the app.

Indeed it is mate yeah. Climb climb, plod plod. Repeat a squillion times to the top.

The ride to work is covered in wet leaves and mud meaning from a maintaining fitness POV it's pointless. Last winter I was falling off almost weekly. Zwift looks good. I've got an old mtb frame that will take a 700cc wheel so if I buy the £199 smart trainer from Halfords and the zwift subscription that's all I need? Any reason a mtb with 135mm axle width wouldn't fit in this?
http://www.halfords.com/cycling/turbo-trainers/trainers/tacx-flow-t2240-smart-turbo-trainer?cm_mmc=Google+PLA-_-Turbo+Trainers-_-Trainers-_-212818&_$ja=tsid:60494%7Ccgn:GoogleShopping%7Ckw:212818&istCompanyId=b8708c57-7a02-4cf6-b2c0-dc36b54a327e&istItemId=atqpqlpqw&istBid=tztl&_$ja=tsid:35522%7Ccid:344520484%7Cagid:24344824324%7Ctid:pla-231148712404%7Ccrid:83794506724%7Cnw:g%7Crnd:13343305182099623860%7Cdvc:m%7Cadp:1o3&gclid=CMbo6YKut9ACFQmeGwod6vgDXA

Also mrs is burning the baby weight at moment - does zwift have a spinning class equivalent? And does a turbo bike need brakes?

turbo bike does not need brakes - most turbos have a caution not to brake as it can damage the resistance unit.
You should be fine with 135mm spacing.
Only problem using a mtb is you might not have a tall enough gear for hard efforts.

Thanks. It's a frame only at moment so I'll probs stick a road crankset on. Do i need gears?

I've just dug out my ANT+ and given Zwift another go. I quite like it and really need to get back into things as I've put a little weight on and need to strengthen my lower back.

The only issue I have is that with my setup (Elite Crono Fluid + Garmin speed sensor) Zwift seems to think I'm a lot better than I *know* I am - just pedalling along it says I'm doing 45mph! I've put my weight in OK and the right set-up. Any ideas?

I don't want to hook strava into this and blast a lot of hard working people KOMs out of the water.

I am tempted by a Wahoo Kickr SNAP though... 🙂

@Adam, check your wheel size setting. Should be around 2096mm for 700x23c

Have you got the variable resistance turned up ? Slider in settings.

When mine was turned up i was easily sticking out 700w... which is knew of course wasn't possible.

After getting snowed off @ Peaslake this morning, I wanted to do some extra mileage today, so entered my first race, a 3 lap thing this afternoon.

It was tough. Absolute sh*t show of basically an hour of chasing down attacks, whilst trying to wheelsuck others to recover.

Absolutely no structure to it, mostly just chaos. To be honest, it's much more appealing to me than a 'structured' training programme of watching a graph on a screen for an hour & trying to hit a line.

It's much more reflective on the reality of racing longer stage enduro too IMO. So, i'm going to at least try & do 2/3 a week, and see where I end up. I have a base FTP result now, i'll test again over Xmas, then at the end of Jan & Feb.

I have no doubt with the 'appliance of science' I could achieve better results by spring time, but chances are I would probably jump out of the window trying to top myself before the gains happened. If I can get most of the way this way, then i'm happy.

Weeksy- that's not what the slider is supposed to do (I know Joe said it kind of does with yours), it's actually more of a gear selector. So at 50%, a 10% Zwift climb will feel like a 5% real climb and at 100% like a 10% climb etc etc.

On a normal variable resistance smart trainer it doesn't alter the watts you are putting out or how fast your Avatar goes for a given wattage.

http://zwiftblog.com/using-the-trainer-difficulty-setting-in-zwift/

have no doubt with the 'appliance of science' I could achieve better results by spring time, but chances are I would probably jump out of the window trying to top myself before the gains happened. If I can get most of the way this way, then i'm happy.

Exactly this. Zwift may not be the perfect training tool for serious racers, but I've done over 500km each of the last 2 months now, lots at race pace. My riding speed, climbing and stamina is just better

So I got a Taxc Flow today, dead excited, but I thought it would be possible to connect to the PC via Bluetooth....seems it's not the case. It will connect to the phone fine, both Zwift and Tacx apps, but it won't connect to the PC. Am I missing something? Do I need the dongle after all?

Does your PC do Bluetooth 4?

Guuuuurrrr, dunno. Maybe not?

Managed to get the trainer to connect via the phone app, after a bit of faffing. Will it be able to change the resistance automatically, as on the pairing screen it pairs as power source and cadence, rather than the controllable trainer option?

Will probably just get a dongle.

Re training effectiveness.
Mathew Haymen this years Paris Roubaix winner accredited his form to Zwift after breaking his arm shortly before the race and being forced to spend the prep time on Watopia. He made the comment in the mud covered interview directly after the race so it didnt appear sponsored comment. He also a rode a rim braked aero bike which probably further upset the marketers.

@AdamW is the elite listed in zwift and youve got the resistance on whatever they advise?
@andeh you need a dongle.

We have another new Zwifter jumping in today.... Mrs Weeksy is going to give it a whirl. She's just in the process of creating logins for Zwift and Strava and will be coming head hunting soon.

I'll be most curious to see if she gets on with it, she's done a few turbo sessions in the past and never really gelled massively.

edit...

Just ordered these.... Crosshair will find it particularly amusing as he was laughing at my super shiny SPD's the other day.

[url] http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/gaerne-aurora-road-shoes/rp-prod87099 [/url]

Re training effectiveness.

It's not the tool, it's how you use it.

Anyone in for the D rated kiss first base race 8pm?

Its probably about the best new racer type race to get a feel for it.

8pm is usually a bit late for me..possibly.

Are you going to use two PC's to run two sessions?
Not sure if ot possible to run both from one machine but it would be useful.

oops wrong thread

We'll use 2 PCs but you can run different users on one machine. Obviously not at same time though as we only have 1 turbo.

Well I'm a complete idiot. I chose the wrong turbo: Elite Red Fluid as opposed to the real one: Elite Crono Fluid. It now reads as a much more accurate snail-like speed! 🙂

Hee hee. Easy done mate.

See you at 8! I may not come last then if you're that slow!

I was gonna give that a go.

Go for it ! You'll easily work out which my username is lol.

Don't forget the 2.49 limit average. I'm pretty much ignoring the average and if I get DQd then moved to C, so be it. I'll actually be quite proud if I can. But it will be tight.

It's all right. I know what sort of wattage to aim for now. I was planning on a ride anyway so it'll be another chance to see what's what.

Cool. See you out there. I'm on the front row. Just chilling now watching TV with the family until 7.50

ooops. disqualified again i think. although so should half the field by the looks of the board at the end.

strava or zwift being slow to upload.

Ouch ! 12th out of 83 on road. Expecting to be bumped to C now. Short race but a killer!

Still waiting on my ant dongle! What are the recommendations for a cheap cadence sensor?

25th ish or so I think. Mine still hasn't uploaded and zwiftpower hasn't updated either.

Did my first zwift session. Ftp of 2.4 ... it's a start!

I bought a bontrager interchange dual sensor and it's been perfect so far.

I have ordered an ant dangle but it's not arrived. I did discover that my Samsung phone can see the ant sensors and will feed the data to zwift on the computer by using the zwift mobile app. It works extremely well if you don't yet have a usb dongle.

Yep did that Kiss D race tonight as my first race! Enjoyed it, hard work though. How long does that bloody ZwiftPower website take to update?! Can see me getting into this, just gotta decide what smart trainer to go for now! Any BF deals on a Neo?!

I think it's broken for that race Zilo 🙁

It's usually within 30 mins for provisional and an hour or so for verified results 🙁

You do get your actual finish position over the line on the screen, but the data/modified results usually take a little while.

I've never seen this though with the next morning the results not being up.

Real shame as i was curious to see a few figures and stuff, i tried really hard and was putting out 2.8 w/kg almost constantly, only dropping into 2.4 for a quick rest when conditions allowed. Really went for it and thought i'd sacrifice the result and possible DQ from race to actually see what i could manage.

Looking on zwift.com at my results my power was 274w.... My previous best, again in a short First Base race was 259w.
So the great thing from my perspective that current week on week, i'm still getting faster, which in theory means fitter... but faster is fine too 🙂
I'm currently staying off the scales until next Thurs as you can get a little disheartened if they don't come down, so once every 3 weeks or so will do me for now.

results up.

2.79w/kg 291w

Got to be happy with that... despite nearly 50% of the field being DQ'd

🙂

Well I bought a fancy pants smart trainer and had my first shake down few kms last night. Previously a trainerroad user but I think it will be zwift for me to start with (though I'll miss TR and a netflix film as a combo a bit but maybe not enough to have both subscriptions). It makes my 2010 Macbook pro strain though; maybe time for a new laptop but I've spent all my pocket money for the foreseeable so will have to do.

My trainer (tacx neo) compensates for descents as well as ascents and thinking about it that has to be a disadvantage in a zwift race when racing against folk on traditional trainers when you go over the top and drop down the other side. I'll be spinning out whilst they are still in the sweet spot of power and cadence.

I'll be spinning out whilst they are still in the sweet spot of power and cadence.

Your speed will still maintain ..... So that's your rest time ! That's where you have the advantage over the dumb trainers as you can rest for a while. We can't.

2.79w/kg 291w

Got to be happy with that... despite nearly 50% of the field being DQ'd

I'll be spinning out whilst they are still in the sweet spot of power and cadence.

Do you actually spin out on descents with your Neo then?

As I say only a few km to using it but using the tacx app to adjust the slope I tested the feel at varying gradients. It can simulate down to -5%. The bike I'm using has a compact chainset and a 12T minimum on the cassette. At max descent simulation I can't get a lot of power down before I spin out. But then again I had a hip op earlier in the year so souplesse and high cadence is not my middle name just now!

Second question - quite a lag between be putting in an effort and my virtual self doing the same. Not got the hang of picking up a draft yet as I've put in a surge like I would on the road and the lag sees my draft disappearing up the road before I've hopped on. Then I put a surge in to catch up then soft pedal only to watch my virtual self keep on pushing and overtaking my draft. Is this just a zwift skill I have not got yet or a consequence of my creaking laptop do you think?

Invested in a Tacx T2240 last week on the back of this thread (and too many cakes). 3 rides so far, including first race (EVR Europe) last night. Observations so far:

- Yes, turbo sessions are now bearable.
- Sign up for monthly Strava Premium - you get free Zwift until end of December, so cheaper than subscribing right away to Zwift.
- My sit bones are killing me after about 30 minutes. Never an issue when actually out on the road. Will need to try and move around a bit more.
- If you've got bluetooth on your laptop and you are using ANT+ to connect to your trainer, disable it. It really buggers up the ANT+ connection.

To show up on Zwiftpower, I had to manually upload my ride last night to Strava, since the connection from Zwift to Strava didn't seem to be working. Interesting power data, it seems I went too hard at the start and fell away at the end. Need to try and pace myself better and not get carried away at the start.

First time "out" last night, did about an hour and a lap of the island (climb up, then down through the castle?)

-I managed an hour on a turbo.....without getting bored. Incredible

-I really need to clean my bike and index my gears

-I finished about half a metre away from where I started, edging towards a book case. so need a mat of some kind. Old yoga mat?

-Bluetooth doesn't control the resistance, so ordered a dongle

-The old knackered fan I borrowed from work is louder than the turbo

-I shouldn't let the wife have access to my Spotify account for her dance classes. Half way through the new Justice album, on the steepest part of the climb, some god awful Christmas themed bagpipe music came on.

-I would like to go again tonight, but should probably rest. Recovery ride, anyone?

DQ'd again. guess its C races from now. I've had to manually upload as well.

annoyingly, for probably 80% of the race I was riding with the top three who didnt get DQ'd.

-I would like to go again tonight, but should probably rest. Recovery ride, anyone?

Yeah, i'm up for riding tonight 🙂

I wasn't planning on going crazy tonight, but i'm more likely to ride about 4pm, i don't know if that's any use to you. I'm hoping for a 60-90mins at around 2.0w/kg as a nice steady ride really.

Does anyone use a 26" mtb on their turbo? The 2240 seems to suggest it will accommodate a 26 and I've got a spare mtb frame - it would take a 700 but I'd have to get one built.

I have used a 26" on the turbo but not sure how it would work with Zwift as it's pre-configured for 700c wheel when calculating speed of rotation.

pahoehoe - Member

Does anyone use a 26" mtb on their turbo? The 2240 seems to suggest it will accommodate a 26 and I've got a spare mtb frame - it would take a 700 but I'd have to get one built.

I used to use my turbo with my mountain bike - it'll have the parts you need to set the roller up for different wheel sizes (well, it should have).
But, as above Zwift works on the assumption of a 700c wheel & a 23c tyre so not sure you can tinker with that in the settings.....?

Having tried to get Zwift running on my ten year old laptop and failing miserably, given its silly sales season can someone point me in the direction of a cheap machine that runs Zwift well?

Cheers,

The ipad version is in beta and due for release in the next few weeks. Might be a more convenient platform.

The ipad version is in beta and due for release in the next few weeks. Might be a more convenient platform.

would mean bluetooth only sensors though.

would mean bluetooth only sensors though.

Sounds like KISS C @ 8pm tonight will be busy, theres also a PAC SUB 2 a bit earlier which usually end up about 2.5w/kg.

@harrytoo a desktop may be the answer.