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Just attempted my first official zwift race in a while, what a load of nonsense. B group, double draft. Spent first 10 minutes hanging off the back putting out well more than ftp, then thought there is no way I'm holding this for an hr, so binned it off.
For those that have been racing in the robbo series, you'll know I'm not an awful rider. I'm a solid b, probably verging on an A. Yet I couldn't cope with today's pace in a double draft event.
starts still as nuts as ever then ?
I binned my first race for ages today (should be a B - nowhere near A) & went into D instead. They started pretty damn hard in the D class, god knows what B was like (and the C race had a quicker overall time than B - crit city so the "larger" rider favoured, I guess)
Aye i get that... absolutely.
In the Crit race i did pacing Crust today.
16 out of the first 20 on ZP were DQ
16 out of the first 20 on ZP were DQ... Crust won right on the limit for 95%
If you also add in that many are not on ZP, it shows how daft it can be at times. You really get to become good at reading Zwift races and letting people go sometimes. You'll see them in C sticking out 4w/kg and think "nah, you're not staying in the results"
Thing is half the fun is battling aT the front, trying to attack, defending an attack etc etc. Ie the racing element. When you are either just absolutely on the limit, or have no idea who you are racing against, it makes the whole thing a bit crap.
I use to race in c, I found it alot more fun but it was still tough and I only won one race ever, which just so happened to have a steep climb at the end. But If I drop back down c then that's just going to cause the same issues for the genuine c riders as I experience now.
Basically the zwift system doesn't work as is unfortunately.
Agree mostly... but i'm not sure what the actual answer is until the pre-check riders before entering the races.
They do have a series or two with Auto dunce hat... if you're destroying the limits you get 'slowed' by the system so they get dumped out.. it's not foolproof, but it's a start.
Zwift Academy workout 2 is.... poorly designed.
Sprint intervals which are ok in themselves but the way it drops your power to next to nothing then you spend the first half of your sprint at 130rpm and about 130watts before the turbo catches up and you can actually get some decent numbers on the board is a bit shit.
I'm sure there's a knack to it but I tried erg mode, regular mode etc and it was still overpowering the resistance until way into the interval.
Ivan - are you running it in a low gear (on your bike) ?
Supposedly that allows erg mode to control things better
No, I generally have it in the highest gear - worth a try next time though, cheers.
Yeap definitely should be in a low gear for erg mode. Small ring in the front and a couple off the lowest at the back for me.
🤮 workouts hurt. Hopefully be worth the pain in a few weeks.
Listening to our favourite Eurosport commentators talking about cadence today gave me some thoughts as to what cadence you guys 'flat' at in a race/event etc.
MIne seems to be closer to 70 on average than 100, although yesterday with Figg it was 90, but i wasn't reall paying attention.
Eurosport was saying "generally looking more up aruond 100 or more".... I'm nowhere near that, so i'm curious to know what you lot are doing ?
Usually aim for 90, 100+ for sprints etc. Avg of 70 sounds way too low to be efficient.
Racing on Zwift is typically 90 to 100.
Outside road riding is generally 80 to 85.
Last TT outside was 98rpm.
Quite enjoy doing V02 max intervals at 100 to 120.
Avg of 70 sounds way too low to be efficient.
Looking more, it's closer to 72-74 over about 10 races... but still low yes.
Outdoors I usually rode at 70/80rpm.
On zwift I've been up nearer 90/100rpm.
I did the pebble pounder training course and that was asking for a low rpm of 75 and a high of 110rpm. It has changed how I ride outdoors a which might be a good thing?
I mentioned this yesterday following the Academy ride, I used to be always around the 70 to 80 rpm but having done a couple of workouts and races I'm now more around the 90 range.
It takes a bit of getting used to but is now becoming more a natural point for me. At times I'm well over 100 rpm.
As I said the other day when I was doing the workout and had to go down to 85, it felt slow.
used to 70s but now mid 90s for TTT and Zwift Races generally. Workouts can be higher. I just did 3 x 12 minute threshold intervals (270ish watts) and was 100, 101 and 99 averages for the 12 minutes.
It might help to increase it once you get used to it as it will put more pressure on your CV system and less on your legs which will stop them fatiguing as quickly. It has taken 8-10 months to increase by 20-30rpm.
I think that much above 100 starts to get inefficient for longer periods of time (not necessarily sprints etc).
I started off around where you are and on hills especially I would grind it out. Now moved to high 80s average and trying to move it even further up. It kills your leg less for the same power. I've found if a group is chugging along at say 300w and then there is an attack where we need to go to 400W doing this by just increasing spin speed and then adding a gear to bring spin back to 90 something takes a lot less out of the legs than dropping a gear and pushing the same cadence. You can also react quicker. It also helps at the start. I typically use the last 10-20s to ramp up the cadence till I'm getting 400W at 100ish RPM. Find that less tiring again than pushing the power as I originally did.
The Vo2 max workout yesterday (3x 13x 30/15) I did the first set and a half at around 90-95rpm then switched to 100+ (ideally 105-110rpm) for the rest. The high RPM felt easier even though I was getting very tired. Next one I do I'm going to try for the whole lot at high RPM.
I am going to go engineering geek on it now:
For 220w at 70 rpm you need to push on the pedals with a torque of 30Nm.
For the same output but at 90 rpm you only need to push on the pedals with a torque of 23.2 Nm.
So for the same power you get a big reduction in the force required but you have to produce that force more often.
Assuming you have a crank length of 170mm this means pushing at 176 N (approx. 18kg) at the pedals at 70 rpm or 136 N (approx. 14 kg) at 90 rpm.
Just done a testride, workout mode on the Parkwood and the Road bike.
200w ERG
89-90 cadence.
15min duration
There was 2bpm in it, with the roadie winning... Is 2bpm enough for me to care, not really in honesty. It was slightly down all the way round. But that could easily be because i'd warmed up on the Parkwood so my legs and body was a bit looser... All in all, very little difference.
Whatever you are most comfortable on for an hour! 2w will be lost if you start feeling uncomfortable
Indeed matey
Only 24-25km today, but all outside and mostly trails. The wrist/hand, it wasn't terrible but wasn't perfect, gentle trails, ridgeway etc i can manage... once it starts getting a bit rooty i can feel it juddering the hand a bit more than i'd like, so stayed away from it mostly.
Epic being out there though
Jealous mate...I don't get out much these days and don't really have any decent trails nearby.
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=1106516
Decent race and result today. Last 4km i suffered a bit and lost wheels, but i wasn't alone in that.
Very much enjoyed it though, that Douce course in France is a little 'rolly' but that's no bad thing.
Due to the TT season finishing for me outside this was my first race on my own in Zwift for ages (I’ve still been doing the TTT with my team WKG) Happy with how it went considering I had next to no warm up for it (3mins 😂) Paced it well, set off fairly steady then slowly ramped it up as I chased down and passed others.
https://zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=1107500
Just getting into zwift.
1. Kickr core purchased.
2. Tried fitting my gravel bike , failure (too wide).
3. Fitted my road bike - done one session
4 Bought another bike as I will never be bothered to move the cassette back and general faff of putting the wheel back. same colour as the gravel bike.
5.thinking of ways to hide new bike from wife (hoping same colour of new bike as old gravel bike, will be sufficient to throw her off the scent)
6 hoping screen cast from phone to TV will be acceptable.
7.bought another TV to replace the one I will use for zwift.
8. Cancelled gym membership.
You're missing signed up to the Tuesday STW group ride off your list of things you've done. If you fancy a spin it's 7.30pm on Tuesday, drop me a PM and I'll sort you out with the invite.
On the cadence thing I'm mid 70-80 average for most rides but climbs I'm much slower. My fastest time up the Alpe came off a 60rpm average. When I'm climbing I just cannot put power down spinning, don't know why.
I found ZA workout 1 a complete PITA because I could either spin at the required cadence or hit the power, never the 2 together. To hit their power levels I needed to be 20rpm lower.
Not sure if anyone will fancy it but I've signed up to the bologna TT at 18.00 this evening, not convinced I'll make it home in time but you never know, however...
I've also signed on for the 18.30 Kirchmair series Sprint Race, one lap of volcano CCW so should be very short and brutal. Never done a sprint before so no idea how badly I'm going to die.
I've signed on in A but can ride B at the moment without getting DQd so happy to switch down if anyone else fancies joining me in making them selves puke before Friday beer. (I'll absolutely be dropping to B if I make the TT, I'm a masochist not a moron!)
One lap sprints tend to be brutal. Think significantly above FTP for most of it (especially as they don't go over 20 minutes so no upgrade risk). When my FTP was around 4.1 I used to do 4.3-4.5 for sprints.
You probably need the fast workout anyway Brian after your pootle following us around last night! 😉
Are you still doing the Pretzel with us in the morning? If so, don't kill yourself tonight!
I typically ride with 90+ cadence average, can be as high as ~105 average.
Think it down to my bow legs, grinding up climbs can leave me with painful knee joints for days, especially as I've got older.
When my FTP was around 4.1 I used to do 4.3-4.5 for sprints.
Yeah, 9k at race pace I'm guessing will be bloody quick, A is a bit of a struggle for me at the best of times, I think it'll end up a 12ish minute ITT in there to be honest. Can't see the back of any bunch being much under 5w/kg all the way round.
Are you still doing the Pretzel with us in the morning? If so, don’t kill yourself tonight!
Some of it at least. In honesty I've had a lazy week. I wasn't up to it on Tuesday so skipped the race and slept instead andlast night was much steadier than I expected so I could do with a few good efforts.
Strava KOM for the Pretzel is 1hr 48 mins - could be a challenge and you can get the route done whilst keeping the 'happy wife' mantra 😉
Strava KOM for the Pretzel is 1hr 48 mins – could be a challenge and you can get the route done whilst keeping the ‘happy wife’ mantra 😉
I reckon I could beat that 😂
THe big pretzel routes are still missing in my root badge collection. Bit of a target for next time I'm home alone in an evening.
THe big pretzel routes are still missing in my root badge collection. Bit of a target for next time I’m home alone in an evening.
All of them, in one evening, are you mad?
Due to the TT season finishing for me outside this was my first race on my own in Zwift for ages (I’ve still been doing the TTT with my team WKG) Happy with how it went considering I had next to no warm up for it (3mins 😂) Paced it well, set off fairly steady then slowly ramped it up as I chased down and passed others.
@bjj.andy.w
Did you do the 12 hr or is that another Andy W? V impressive result (in bad weather too?)
I’ve also signed on for the 18.30 Kirchmair series Sprint Race,
I'm entered for that just to get a faster time than a friend for the CCW route.
C though as there are some proper hitter entered and should hang on for a fast time mostly.
First race for about 2 months but I've been doing plenty of short efforts.
Might be a B now due to some weight loss but not sure where FTP is at and as it's not over 20minutes I won't get a DQ and it's very unlikely I'll win with the competition.
I've no idea who is in the races - unless they're on here or ride from a GT team I'd not have a clue who is who anyhow.
In practice in B I should hold my own I'd hope, in A I'm going to get spat out quicker than a sour milk. It's my first solo race in ages mind (hence having slipped back to B) so I may well find I'm waaaay off the pace even in B
On ZP for the race sort by category and then by ranking points and boggle at the points and power. Especially in C. I've raced against a couple of them so another look suggests I might be able to be up there except for the 105kg Russian who has a 1000w+ sprint...
On ZP for the race sort by category and then by ranking points and boggle at the points and power. Especially in C. I’ve raced against a couple of them so another look suggests I might be able to be up there except for the 105kg Russian who has a 1000w+ sprint…
Can't say I've ever bothered looking to be honest.
I'd go so far as to say, having just looked, that your Russian isn't entirely legit. A bit of attention to his numbers and you'll see he was about to become a B, then miraculously put on 4kg, exactly the right amount of weight to still be a cat C, (at 101kg he'd round the other way) but not any more so it slows him on hills. Every time his 3 race average would make him a B he has a race just below that line and gets to stay in C...
I might be wrong of course but I get the distinct impression he weighs about the same as me and doesn't like not being [any where near] first over the line.
That or he plays rugby for a living.
And look at his power in any race <20 minutes. His power curve basically has a step in it at 19 minutes. There are plenty of characters like him on zp though. They are curiosities but needn't be an actual barrier to enjoying the races.