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@Krypton57 Going off my TT yesterday afternoon https://www.strava.com/activities/2866389432/analysis/1/1548 using Zwift TT bike and Zipp 808 wheels, maybe swap to some non-aero wheels and do Tempus Fugit twice? I'd guess you are expecting ~230-260W, so with the turnaround loop at each end of the course, that should be close to an hour.
Personally, I wouldn't choose a race to try and evaluate any MAP interval, unless you stick to your goal of a sustained power level... Which means ditching the crazy z5+ starts and any other power bazooka efforts that those racing may launch.
Hmm. I think maybe you are right. I thought the race effort would spur me on a bit. I already know I can complete an hours z3 at 235w and I like TF. Maybe 30 mins at Z3 with the last 30 mins incrementally 5 minute 5w increases with a final emptying of the tank with 10 to go until death as a negative split is the way to go.
Go ride road to the sky.
Use the lead in as warm up. And ride to top .
That will be c. 1hr to the top with no where to hide.
Did the Friday Night Crit (B) race last night. 5 laps of Innsbruck. Only managed 4 and a half - couldn't face the hill for a last time. Bit cr@p of me really.
Got dropped towards the end of the first lap, was in a group of about 10 with only two of us doing the work. Every time we got to the main hill for some reason some of the riders tried to drop the group.
Our group whittled down to 6, no real cohesion, again 3 of the guys would put the hurt on on the climb and try and drop us. I tried to keep the pace on during the flats, but no one else wanted to work, dropped our pace down significantly for a lap with no one else working (probably about 200/210 watts). I couldn't break away as the guys would just sit behind me.
Averaged 244 watts, just below my FTP, which isn't bad considering the mid race plateau.
One of the guys was saying on chat that to stay in the front group you need to be averaging about 3.8 w/kg and be able to do the climb each lap at 7w/kg.
I can sit comfortably at 3.5 or 3.6w/k, but really struggle when going over 6/wkg for over a minute, then immediately settling back into 3.6w/kg.
The trick with that climb is to hold an extra few seconds at the top. It builds your speed up quicker so you can take it easier going down. Often gaps people as well.
Sand and sequoias today as it was the only race time that suited me.
TT style race, tried to start slower and not go all in, which seemed to help in the climb of Titans and the rollers etc. Highest position in leader board I saw was 77/240 ended up 90/240
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=247569
Overall was a decent result and effort
Just seen we entered thar same TT @weeksy (I was on mobile app and could barely see any data besides my power and hrm!) and wondered how you approached it... Did you threaten your pb up Titans KOM?
Literally only just got set up ten seconds before the start, so no warmup at all and no idea how my legs felt after yesterday's TT, with same forced 50/16 gear (still not replaced that snapped gear cable) and 100% slope feel. My power through Fuego Flats was much closer to 250W than the 300W yesterday despite same gear and slope, not sure if that was cadence/weaker legs/belt on Direto needs tightening a little, but this kept my heart mostly below 160bpm (my lthr is 165-170ish) until the bump before Titans incline. Gearing and slope meant I had to hit up to 420W to get up some of those short steep rollers, sending my heart to 179bpm before a slight drop down Titans descent to finish as my power dropped back to 250Wish.
Went better than I expected after yesterday, 288W vs 270W for best 20mins.
Trying to motivate myself to now have a short, very gentle ride outdoors on the Wazoo before sunset threatens!
P.S. Saw I put @Krypton57 instead of @Kryton57 on earlier post, sorry! 😉
28s behind my best up kom.
Can’t do Alpe Du Zwift yet as I’m only a lowly Level 11….
Join any race that goes up the Alpe and it unlocks for you.
^^Joining any race that goes up there will probably result in a very sweaty and painful death for me.😆
I'll be chuffed to just give up it without stopping during a free ride up it to be honest.
Happy with how my fitness and weight is coming on though and I'm planning on doing more group rides and then some races.
Finally getting the hang of drafting and truly appreciating it's positive effects. I practice drafting on the free rides I do as in the races I did in the past I just yo- yo'ed off the back all the time due to the power lag. Getting the hang of it better now along with the merits of the power ups.
Really loving Zwift these days to the point I can't be asked to go out in the crap weather on a real ride!
Just got into the races, and have crossed into C. Cant believe I will ever get to B, but it’s a long winter....
Starting to run out of ratio, running my Roadrat with 46/11 on a wheel on smart trainer.
Would going direct drive and rigid road frame get me some free watts?
Gearing chat is interesting. I'm a little stuck currently with gearing. 38T fits perfectly on the inner of the spider, giving a good chain line. If I fit the 42T on the inside I get very very little clearance in the frame. If I fit it on the outside I get a horrible chain line and the bike sound horrific. But I'd really like a bigger option than the 38T.
For short Zwift races or free ride training sessions that don't go up longer steep (~7%+) climbs, approx sub 45mins, the 16T works for me with 34/50T rings with trainer difficulty (slope feel) somewhere in the 80-100% range with my direct drive turbo (direto).
But with ERG training sessions, Zwift and the turbo will give me a big power range in 16T with 34 ring depending upon cadence, approx 60-500W.
But outdoors, I currently have the 22T sprocket (moved from usual cassette position) on the rear wheel in my fixed rear mech position, although this is a work in progress! Ordinarily I'd head from home (Bitterne) to somewhere between Owslebury and Petersfield, typically climbing 1-6 cat4 climbs... But many of the cat4s have some 7%+ ramps, plus they're are plenty of 100-200 foot climbs around that can hit up to ~15%. In addition, these rides are usually 2+ hours, so trying to find a sprocket that doesn't slow me down too much on the flat without destroying already dead legs like today is a challenge!
ERG mode has been a blessing and a curse since my gear cable snapped, because it's allowed me to train without getting the internally routed cable replaced.
I'm not happy. a 2h workout out with - aside from the last 10 mins of recovery - my 1h test at the end. Used Tempus Fugit as the course. I had lots of niggly issue - dropped a bottle, twinge in my left quad and at some point in my calves also, had a strange out of breath moment half way in. I decided to defer to my best method which is a negative split which worked better for me that the 5 min constant prior to this.
Nevertheless I felt I could not do much more - maybe a few more minutes at higher watts - to average only 239w / 3wkg, which is 10w below my PB which was set during a Zwift race.
Why is it you alway finish only to think Coulda Should Woulda..? I didn't end "dead" and therefore think I should have done more, but then again at the time I didn't think I could. 🙁
a whole hour test? that seems bloody miserable, i couldn't do that, not indoors, i can do it outdoors if i have a long flat kom but that's just like a TT, not indoors, nope no way
just look for a flat race on zwift, my best power numbers have been on 3R Tempus Fugit Flat Race - 1 Lap (19.8km/12.3mi 20m), its got a 2km lead in so last a good stint over 20 mins, i think the motivation of people around you helps, just trying to hang the **** on
How often do you train to specifically improve your 1 hour power?
I know it's something I rarely do, because outdoors that would mean up and down cat3/4 hills, but surprisingly I've come within 3W of my best turbo rides in 2018. While indoors, I rarely tackle Alpe Du Zwift and Ive not run RGT to tackle Stelvio Pass or Mont Ventoux since spring.
I focus far too much on my 20mins power to give me FTP estimates, which will get me up cat 4 and 3 climbs, but unless I change my focus I'm going to really struggle whenever I face my first outdoor cat2 or harder.
For the last 23 months of having a power meter, my best hour of power is way lower than 95% of my best 20mins, 254W Vs 298W (back in April/March respectively, recently 235/275 in October, all on turbo in freeride or race).
The only issue is getting over the monotony of plodding away at the same ballpark power for 60mins!
the alpe du zwift Saturday ride at 7am. Good group to ride with and the hour flies by.
Ha well it wasn't easy. I set up a workout with two back to back intervals - one at 235w and the other at 260w. The first I rode fine, but the second I gradually stepped up the power but struggled around 254w despite finishing the last 5 mins at 300w.
Anyway, a 2 min test Tuesday then a 20 min test next week which I think will fly by after that one.
After that I'm into low carb base and core strength training.
Gearing wise I've a 52x11 top. I did swap to a 53t as I was running out of gears (50% trainer feel, direct drive). However since I switched to a higher rpm spin technique I don't trouble the top gears and could probably get away with a 50t top.
I use 53/36 and 25-11 on mine.
Instead of Zwifting i took the T-130 out yesterday, god that feels strange... standing up, the bike felt hinged ! I thought the shock had no air in or something, but it did... An hour later it all felt OK again, but weird taking time off a particular bike.
My legs don't like it either, today they're aching in places i don't usually ache 😀 weird indeed.
Weeksy, how often do you get to do real outdoor rides?
I’m in a similar situation with my legs killing me today, I did a group ride....but my di2 battery died, 30 miles in single speed in the little ring.
Couldn’t sleep last night with leg pain, very weird.
Weeksy, how often do you get to do real outdoor rides?
I’m in a similar situation with my legs killing me today, I did a group ride….but my di2 battery died, 30 miles in single speed in the little ring.
Couldn’t sleep last night with leg pain, very weird
Reasonably often, 2 maybe 3 times a week, 1 hour give or take... but it's been the best part of a month since i've ridden the T130 as i've been testing the Parkwood in various guises for the Belgium trip
Reflecting in the madness of 1hour power on a Turbo, I’ve woken up exhausted this morning. I can’t believe how tired I am, mentally and physically. I wasnt happy yesterday but also thinking on the fact my outside power is always higher I’m less bothered.
Weeksy you are using additional core and periphal muscles outdoors for balance etc. That will change again on the FS as the dynamics of the bike changes. Zwift workdays and outdoors non workdays is good practice, as it any core work you can do.
Weeksy you are using additional core and periphal muscles outdoors for balance etc. That will change again on the FS as the dynamics of the bike changes
Kinda.... but i only did the same road-route i usually do as i was pressed for time and didn't fancy getting filthy. I was just highlighting how weird it felt and how different bikes seem to affect difference muscles slightly...
Core work... LOL... have you never met me.
Trying to find some motivation and energy to either do the 1700 6 laps of Laguardia (which works well for me with my limited gearing), or the 1730 Bologna TT (where either the ~5Km lead in will be too easy, or the ~3Km climb will be a killer)...
Body still recovering from first delivery shift in 12 days, but more than anything I feel mentally wrecked from waking before the alarm at ~0430.
I died, badly. Not sure how or indeed why, I just died. It felt like the fastest first 10 mins ever. Then didn't get much better.
I was then settling into a group and I got the dreaded -- on my power, only for 10s but the group disappeared along with my motivation.
So I've just treated myself and ordered a Tacx Neo 2 thanks to it being 25% off on Wiggle (yes I got a cassette too). Never had a trainer let alone a smart trainer before. Thought I might as well try and get nice and fit over winter for a change since I don't commute by bike any more.
I'm going to most likely get Zwift and do a training plan on there. I've heard Trainer Road is better for structured plans but I think I'd stick to Zwift more due to the nature of it being like a game, and I don't particularly want to shell out for both.
My question is, does anyone know some decent training plans on Zwift for someone who's never been on a turbo before? I wouldn't say my fitness is great at the moment so something that will help me build up my base would be good to start. Up until last month I'd commute by bike 6 miles each way, and do a 10-20 mile MTB ride on the weekends, just to give you an idea of my current level.
For now mate, just jump on and get used to the dynamics in a free for all kind of riding, get used to how the hills change it, up and down. Possibly jump on a group ride like a HERD ride to ride with some others, then find your feet and start thinking of joining a structured style like a Fondo group or Zwift Academy etc for their training/group rides.
The Zwift menu on startup does include some plans.
Any of the plans will probably yield results to start with if you stick with them as it's all new to your body and also just the act of getting used to the trainer will boost your FTP.
I'd look for something with 3 sessions a week and mix in some riding round the worlds or group rides if they suit.
If the game side interests you gaining XP is the main thing to advance up the levels. Go after the badges which at least the route ones giving you XP boost which will be useful from level 1. The other badges might do too. Pick the right routes from the options as you log on and don't deviate from them until you finish it.
After that there is also the VV leaderboard if you like ticking things off for motivation.
https://veloviewer.com/zwift-insider
Then there's racing which I dived into on my 3rd or 4th ride.
STW team https://www.zwiftpower.com/team.php?id=756
Strava Group https://www.strava.com/clubs/STWzwift
Get the companion app from Zwift on your phone too to make sense of races/events/group rides.
My question is, does anyone know some decent training plans on Zwift for someone who’s never been on a turbo before?
They do some ftp builder plans and a bunch of other stuff:
https://zwift.com/training-plans
And see this for a list
https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/#zwift-plans
I've not used them myself, but there's a fair choice depending on what you're trying to achieve. A few mates have tried the ftp builder-type ones and I guess that might be a reasonable start point.
Thanks guys, this is all really helpful stuff. Excited for it to arrive so I can get going now!
Yeh I wouldn't bother with the Zwift Academy ones. They aren't to train you so much as to fill a power curve for them to make an assessment of your abilities for the competition. FTP builder would be a good option.
Just tried my first zwift race..gave up after 5 min!
The fact that I was struggling to keep up with the peloton whilst doing 350 watts clearly indicates that the drafting functionality is not very life like! I mean the guy last in the chain at the olympic track pursuit only has to put that out!!
My mate confirmed that if you can hold on for 5 min then everyone just dies a death and is grinding away at 170 watts for the rest of the race, but that didnt seem a very enjoyable way to spend the next 50 min on the turbo.
@tpbiker Which race?
There's no drafting when using TT bike, not sure about group workouts, certainly not on solo workouts.
350w is quite a steady start to a race I’d say ... typically around 400w for first 10 mins is usual; yes it will steady out ... but it will kick off quite a few times before the end; usually on a climb etc.
The fact that I was struggling to keep up with the peloton whilst doing 350 watts clearly indicates
That should settle after minute 2. First 2 mins about that and then down to 300w to hold B/C.
As may hold 350 longer though.
Groups start forming after about 2 min
around 400w for first 10 mins
That's just ridiculous...I can hold 400 watts for about 3 min tops then I'm spent completely. It was a standard group race, I assume drafting was on as I wasn't on the tt bike.
For the record my ftp is a fraction under 4 watts per kilo, and I'm racing as a b. But I'm light so anything over 300 watts hurts.
I'd say I'd stick to the tt events, which I enjoy, but I get hammered in them as well, despite putting out the highest watts per kilo in my cat in a couple of them.
It's an art.
Your FTP is "higher" than mine. But I can hold on to the groups so long as they calm down about 10 minutes
My mate cannot hit that power but he can hold a higher FTP/kg than me for much longer
Your FTP is “higher” than mine. But I can hold on to the groups.
My watts per kilo may be higher, but I doubt my ftp is...I'm only 66 kg so my ftp is only 260-270.
Interestingly in real life my tt prowess is pretty good as I'm obviously quite aero and often beat folks puttimg out far more watts, but in zwift it's all about the power output
Until you get to a hill. Then yours helps.
Try a race at London as it has 2 inclines near the start to suit your profile.
IS anyone using a Tacx Flux S? What is it like noise wise (compared to a wheel on trainer?)
I could live with my ~274W FTP on Zwift hilly races and/or TTs, if I was 66Kg... Unfortunately I'm ~14Kg heavier and can just about manage ~4W/Kg for 5mins before turning into a quivering wreck!
I've recently been promoted to B due to a few decent 20min efforts, I've got no F'in chance as and when I do races rather than the TTs I've been doing the last week, because of those mental sprint starts... Rightly or wrongly, at least for now while I've still a lot of racing fitnesss and tact to find, I just let them go and often do "negative split" races.
Long one for me around 2 laps of Tick tock. Course mostly suits me.
Made sure I didn't go nuts off the line, but in the first 3km the pace was indeed a bit hot still, just kept my composure and settled into a decent pace. Couple of people caught our group then on the kick towards Titans we had a bit of a split.
I held my group over the line and into lap 2 I was happy. Up the kicker again we dropped 2 guys and somehow I stayed in the group still. Trying to sit and hide as much as humanly possible.
Wasn't very exciting and not much in the way of a sprint from any of us.
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=253801
Zwift ranking improvement by 0.5 lol. All that for half a point