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I'd like a coach but in no way can I justify/afford one. I can justify £100 to Trainerroad though (and Zwift) and although I've followed the plans poorly since Xmas I can see the benefits over the last 15 months and it's entirely possible they could have been greater if I'd stuck to the plan and not gone off and done other stuff like Zwift racing but my head needs to do some of that at times. My flat speed is far better, recovery from efforts is far quicker, general climbing speed is better. Top end hill climb race pace hasn't got back to my very best but I was so single minded focused in the run up to that event I'm not sure I can hurt myself that much again on that hill but I've destroyed a few PRs at max efforts at the end of last year so I'm going to say it's better.
Actual FTP hasn't moved much in the last year, 265 to 279, but all the above is better. It's March and I've barely ridden up a road hill outside this year and last night I pretty much matched my best time up an 8 minute climb that I set in July when I was aiming at hill climb season. I was disappointed not to beat it but on reflection it's a good place to be right now.
@kryton57 you have to look at where you started and what the actual gains are to justify the coach. Returns are going to diminish at some point and could you motivate yourself to do the intervals without one? That's the challenge I have this spring/summer to actually do some indoors every week.
Weeksy why have you told him your tactics?! He's going to be waiting for an early attack now.
I don't know how some people manage to put in the miles that they do with no or very little recovery. I need a fair few days again for my legs to feel right. Although I don't do cool down rides or recovery rides
Fair points Tom. I've yet to race properly so maybe I'll see a difference soon. If you look at "numbers", I have a watts vs HR graph in the training software and there is a marked increase from 2018 to 2019, my top end numbers are up, and my 2hr pace is up. Climbing is a weakness but I can "feel" it has improved and see that via Strava Cups. So its definitely doing something.
I guess the issue of "worth it" comes when consider last year I moved from finishing mid pack to top third. This year who knows but if you aren't troubling the top 10 is it worth being coached? I don't know.
Otherwise its as you say -the accountability to actually perform the workouts to the desired effort us there, and you have to assume a coach in a well know national setup knows what they are doing. The Builth Marathon is in a few weeks which is a target event with a proper taper - I'll see then I guess. I may just being being miserable, I'm quite tired at the moment.
Weeksy why have you told him your tactics?! He’s going to be waiting for an early attack now.
TBH Yim, it won't matter LOL. He's got tonnes of power, if i go, he'll go.... The other part of the issue is that the run in to the end of that layout has a couple of 1-2% sections which is where i suffer most, along with the ramp up in speed that comes that far into the race. My plan is to go early yes, but early being really early...
I suspect though, he'll get the jump on me before that in the initial shake up with the A/Bs.
I don't do cool downs or recovery rides often.... Although i'm likely to do one today sort of, planning an outdoors ride about 2pm-4pm.
I actually do all my riding during the week and never ride at the weekend so i get 2 days recovery every week which seems to suit me. In fact my worse rides are almost always on Mondays after the rest period, i guess i am a tour rider as i get better as the week goes on. I will be changing my riding now to train for long distance rides which is a shame as i seem to have just discovered the art of a sprint finish. I need longer hilly rides to cope with Yorkshire hills so a lot less racing from April plus more outdoor rides.
Did the grind race this morning and i was so focussed on keeping the power up on the volcano kom that i passed the line without realising and never put a sprint in! I ended up 12th because people sprinted for the line whilst i was staring at my headset, what a clown i am!
These Pros are animals uphill,!
savage sprint there from the pros
anyway back to Kryton, im another like weeksy, i could structure my riding/training, but im not sure what id get from doing it, i love zwift racing, but dragging the family or going solo to races here there and everywhere on a weekend, that's not for me, or us as a family
i know my fitness increases from just riding more, but its never terrible even if i don't, i've done 52 zwift races this years, there's only 7 under 3w/kg, plenty of people would be quite happy with 3w/kg even when peaking. my power hovers between 265w and 300ish depending on how often i get out/on
My riding is on the fly, grab an hour here, a hour there, zwifting has certainly helped in this regards over the winter, when i just wouldn't bother (compared to a few years ago when i used to commute 30km either way, most of the year, even in winter) I ride hard when i can get out and apart from 2 sportives (tour of the peaks and the beast) last year i cannot remember a outdoor ride over 2 1/2 hours, it's hard with young kids (and i have 4 at home with me, the eldest being 8), but it is what it is, the only consistent window i have with no distractions, and this has only been since September, is Thursdays 9:30-12:30 when the youngest is at nursery and the mrs at uni as long as i don't get a shift fall there,
no way at this point in my life could i commit to anything more, although im not sure i ever would, even if i could - be interesting to see what next years brings, all 4 will be in 0845-0330 schooling, and for the first time in the best part of 8/9 years the house will be quiet during the day, ill probably spend the first 6 months catching up on sleep 🙂
<span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: transparent; color: #222222; font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 22.4px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">would be quite happy with 3w/kg</span>
Oh right, so perhaps I should be grateful with the last race where I admitted to getting stuck at easy pace being measured at 3.1kg?
At my last good XC race I came at an estimated 3.67 w/kg, 19th regional. But its the accumulated fatigue I'm sure - tonight I've struggle with 2x20 at 3.12/kg - the same I've been cruising through in previous weeks. I'm at the end of a block, and have done a 5am to 8pm day at work, plus end of quarter sales stress!
The thing for me Kryts, is that you seem to be either unhappy with your performances or disasppinted with your results almost every time we see you post on them, whether they're indoors or outdoors, you don't seem to enjoy it at all. There's always "at the end of a block".... Surely a coach will understand that at the end of a hard 2 weeks, performance may drop and tailor your training accordingly ? Does he understand how unhappy you appear with cycling ? I often read your posts, not only thinking you're going to quit with your coach, but quit cycling completely.
Cycling first and foremost IMO should be a pleasure, it should be enjoyable in some way, even if that's only seeing the results from training i guess... .but it still should be an enjoyable thing.
Is it ?
Surely a coach will understand that at the end of a hard 2 weeks, performance may drop and tailor your training accordingly ?
He does - its me that has a hard time when I don’t do very well. There is an element of “what did you expect?” here from all of you, and him.
I employ a coach to make me faster, not make me happy. That I have problem engaging between the two is my issue not his. I’m in a lull now because I’m tired, its been a long hard winter, I’ve a lot of work stress. I could race well at Builth, I then have a weeks family holiday and likely/hopefully will come back bouncing.
You need to bear in mind I have a default glass half empty personality 😉
tonight I’ve struggle with 2×20 at 3.12/kg
I assume by that you managed them though. Doubt the coach was expecting it to be easy.
Zwift racing is difficult to get your w/kg up if you are stuck in a group. If you attack it's unlikely to stick so you end up back in the pack going relatively easy. MTB racing unless you're at the pointy end is basically at threshold the entire time. If you are sat in the front 2 you might be trying to relax for a last lap attack.
3.7w/kg is pretty bloody good and I'm assuming you can test at that or higher?
Trainerroad are always bigupping anyone who is 4w/kg as it's not an easy power to get to especially once you're getting on a bit. Not unobtainable but generally requires a decent effort to get there.
I assume by that you managed them though.
I did.
I’m assuming you can test at that or higher?
Thats was September last year. I tested in November after a month offer and it went down to 3.55w/kg. I'd expect to be a bit higher now, when rested. I'd really like to get to 4w/kg but I'm not a powerful rider as I've alluded to before.
Anyway, the important thing for me these days is holding 225-235w for 4hrs 😀 The former I can do, the latter is a stretch.
Got my ar53 handed to me by the TopC.. Just couldn't hang in the A/B group, was too hot.... damn....
At least we know where we stand in the C pecking order.
HR strap died... changed battery yesterday and got nowhere with it today.... So it's in the bin. LOL.
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=173489
Weeksy - i race against the top 3 in that B group regularly and a few others and i can say without hesitation that i can barely hang on to them either. You would have done amazing to hang in with them but i suspect if you had you would have dq’d on w/kg. Very well done though,it looked like a tough race for C group.
Surely if the guy is winning all the time in c then he should move up to cat b
Should... maybe... HAS to... not unless he breaks the limits. He's a very clever Zwifter that's for sure, he hides really really well... putting out 200w, then a surge at 350w, then back to 200 and etc etc... It works very effectively as he seems to have the power to get out of trouble should he need it.
Was all good fun... Good race and learning curve, i need to work out how to get the 2 roundabouts and the hairpin section better, that's where i lose out every time... It's only 1% or in a few bits 2% but i struggle massively.
I am not convinced by Bath salts claims of being a C. I think they are a sandbagging B. Did their friend chopper turn up to tow them around today?
In a change for me I did a group training ride earlier in the week (TeamODZ The Kraken). It as a sprint session which I was pleasantly surprised to find I quite enjoyed (despite feeling very sick after one of the sprints on lap 2). Set new best power outputs for everything up too 1min as well which was nice. I did however start to notice a horrible knocking noise/feeling starting from the bike/turbo towards the end of the ride.
Onto Wednesday, no warm up time available and having not done a handicap race for a while I had a go at the ZHR hounds and hare race. I'm thinking that I will try and use this sort of event as under over training as I can control the over sections with my turns at pulling as the pack works together more. I'd forgotten about the noise from the other day and it came back with vengeance. By the end of the ride it had grown from just a knocking to knocking and metallic noise. Was expecting the trainer to fail at any point. It was worse out of the saddle or anything over 350W. After lap 1 I pretty much hid in the pack to try and stay smooth and nurse the trainer home. Did a few pulls when I could get too the front without spiking the power too much.
We caught the lead B group a third of the way in the last lap (having blasted past other from the start of lap two). THere were too many Bs in that pack to break free again and we completed the race as a blob. It wasn't until the last 1km that the power difference began to tell and gaps started to form. Ended up being a long, long sprint home which I did seated. I gave it as much beans as I could and came home 6th, though I think second would have been in reach with an out of the saddle sprint.
Post race I tried to work out what was up with the trainer and it looks like nothing. I'm using an old (12+ years) Lemond alloy road bike with carbon stays. The seat stays are bolted to the dropouts just above the rear axle. One of these bolts was loose causing the knock. I think the metallic noise was the frame flexing enough to cause gear rub! Clearly the spring session was just too much for it. I think I may need to look at a rocker board or old steel frame in the not too distant future.
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=172976
I am not convinced by Bath salts claims of being a C. I think they are a sandbagging B. Did their friend chopper turn up to tow them around today?
Not that i'm aware, but either way it wouldn't have mattered, before i got dropped we were in a group of 20 or so, so towing wasn't an issue... It was just for me, too fast.
I got beat by the chopper the other day, he was way ahead hanging with a fast A group. I suspected at the time that he was a sandbagging A as it was quite an elite group of A riders. Not sure i see the point in doing that but not bothered by it as i am too busy trying to hang on to them.
I honestly don't care much as long as i enjoy it 🙂 Todays race veiwing the result on the App, i was 11th, there were a few C riders putting out 4+ overall, which I just simply don't understand... i struggle with why you do it and go WAY over power to beat some random C riders. Just plain weird if you ask me.
I just cant think of a reason to do it because everyone you are racing against know whats going on so just ignore you and anybody who doesnt cycle doesnt really care full stop. I guess there is nowt as queer as folk.
I did the pursuit race this morning and was second overall, got pipped in the sprint finish by 0.014s. It was a very quick race and i think i set a few pr’s and some acheivements on a course i have done every thursday for the last 3 months. Legs are tired now so couple of weeks off the bike while the kids are off (may be a cheeky race in there) and then go in to more endurance rides ready for my first century ride in July. Realised that i had never done one so thought i best tick it off.
Due to peer pressure i moved to B for you lot....
I'm hoping to get re-instated in the result as i've got no HR monitor till tomorrow
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=173954
unoficially
6 Steve Weeks STW (B)
24:57
LOL I'm waiting for my demotion to C. I'd stick as a C if I were you. Mind you would have destroyed the C field.
Tricky one isn't it. I don't mind winning, but there's winning and there's taking the proverbial
Weeksy - you destroyed the C group and held your own in B so nice riding. Welcome to B group, you will fit in very well for the rest of your cycling career (except on the hilly stuff). Practice the hilly stuff coz you are more than capable on the flat stuff.
Move to B they said
You'll do ok they said.
London loop x2, box hill x2, weeksy, last in B. 6th out of 6.
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=174217
Flats were a cruise, hills, hmmm not so much.
not a course that suits you though, so won't have been a total surprise to you, I'm the same in races like that, never put out enough power on the descents
Had the joy of a twenty minute FTP Friday night, happy with a few more watts increase.
not a course that suits you though, so won’t have been a total surprise to you
I know matey, was kidding. It's all good. That just happened to be the only race that suited my timings yesterday, so for better or worse I gave it a go. Was happy until 2nd time up Box Hill, but my time up it was slow then which got me dropped from the group I was in. HR monitor worked though which was also a reason for me to do event.
never put out enough power on the descents
This weekend I was tasked do 2 X 2hrs Z2, which outdoors involves pedalling downhill . On my 300th KM this week 150 of which was turbo/Zwift my head was a bit vague with tiredness as i found myself turning 200w down a long steep hill with an unsighted sharp left turn at the bottom.
Would have been much safer on Zwift 😀
I'm still in a pool of quandry...
1. B or C... C or B.... .meh, i dunno. Part of me wants to battle in C until i'm forced up to B.
2. New bike or stick with the Parkwood. I'm hoping to borrow one of the lads road bikes on Wed to do a test race and see if the geometry affects things.
3. Race or cruise.... Legs are tired after indoor and outdoor riding... But i'm trying to burn the calories at the moment, so i did 45km yesterday cruising on Zwift, likely to do another cruise day today.
Need to save some legs as the wife is away from next weekend, so got a few days of outdoors planned with plenty of miles i'm hoping 🙂
C until you get upgraded as long as you aren't sandbagging or upping your weight to stay in cat limits. Maybe jump into Bs for fun on the shorter flat ones as you are capable of getting cups if the cards fall right.
How "fun" orientated is the Parkwood geometry? If you prefer MTB bars I'd be looking at a more racy geometry second hand frame and sticking a road chainset and cassette on. If I were optimising for power and comfort I'd be looking at a stupidly stiff frame probably with old style TT bullhorn bars giving a cruise upright position and aggressive sprint positionon the horns. You'd probably want DI2 with sprint shifters then too ;0)
C until you get upgraded as long as you aren’t sandbagging or upping your weight to stay in cat limits. Maybe jump into Bs for fun on the shorter flat ones as you are capable of getting cups if the cards fall right.
That's pretty much my thinking. I'd love to be sandbagging LOL... If the day comes where i get auto bumped i'll be very very proud of myself (in a zwift context of course)
How “fun” orientated is the Parkwood geometry?
I'm really not sure how MTBs and Road Bikes differ in this context.Whether the crank is in a different relative position for making more power due to seat-tube angles, or whether it's the reach to the bars... I'm hoping to borrow a mates bike Wed, there's a 11:05am race on a course i raced and distance from last week, then compare my time, speed, power and see if there's any difference between the 2 bikes..
Of course we're starting to get ridiculous then of "who really cares, does it really matter"... No is the obvious answer... but... kinda.
It matters. Just bear in mind it's not your normal position so you may struggle to do the same power. An upright XC position I think in theory should be best for power output if you can also produce a good out of the saddle sprint position. I'd rather be on road bars than MTB bars but currently that's not an option. Planning on putting the winter bike on at some point to see if it's nicer.
MAybe i should wait till Weds then as i can hopefully use a mates bike.. I've done it before from the context of having a road bike but then selling because i wasn't using on the road and wanted to train on the SDW bike i was going to use, but in all honesty i'm not sure it matters that much. I do enough outside to get used to the bike i'll use for SDW of that there's no doubt.
Patience is not my strong point and the Planetx bike is shiny and new...
I was thinking about a Triban from Ebay, but you never know what you'll end up with when buying used, at least with new, it's... .well... new.
The Shimano shoes and pedals arrived so what better a chance to test them than a greater London flat 1 lapper. A course, distance and race I know well and have raced many times.
The other day when editing my name I lowered my FTP from 288 > 270. I didn't feel I was anywhere near the 290 I once got bumped to, but wasn't sure how far away I really was.
Race started properly quick! People and splits everywhere! But I found a group of 10-12 riders that was the 2nd main group and settled in. Up horseguards I thought I was in trouble at the top as usual but hung in, another rider ahead was closing the gap of 6-7m so I knew I'd be ok.
Over the line into the main lap i was going ok. Power was good, HR slightly high but only 1-2 BPM at the most from where I wanted. Up to the split where the classique goes left and blam, my music goes off, the fan goes off and the internet has gone. Power cut.
Any experienced Zwifters know that if you get lucky you can get away with it and not lose ground. But the seconds turned into minutes. Damn. I was 18 mins in now and I knew Zwift would still be registering my power so was worth hanging in for my 20 minute time and power figure.
22min in the power came back as I was about a minute from the line, but sadly I was 20s behind the guy ahead. I rolled over the line for the results
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=174886
FTP was updated to 285. Which it's hard to be unhappy with as very close to my best ever and on the back of 8 hard days. Picked up a silver in C but convinced I'd have taken the win without internet drop but more importantly the 20 minutes power was good.
Will take a rest day tomorrow and hit the loan bike on Wed hopefully.
It was interesting using the pedals and shoes again as they're much stiffer than the 5'10s which I'm hoping will help with the toe cramp I get off the bike at times, along with the off chance of giving me 1-2w more
Well done for hanging in there. Is have got annoyed after a minute and turned it off. I think the shoes and pedals will make a difference even if it's just that you can use your muscles differently.
If you optimise too much you're going to get upgraded!
If you optimise too much you’re going to get upgraded!
That's my wish/desire mate 🙂
I'm not in C because of a choice, i'm in there because i can't get out (based upon their figures that is). I'd be MORE than happy to be kicked out of C and into B... that's my intention/goal.
I'm sitting here watching all sorts of road/CX type bikes on Ebay waiting to press the button, but part of me thinks it's a stupid idea LOL.
so close...
[url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7893/46605076965_329bd57e6b_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7893/46605076965_329bd57e6b_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2e1kcFK ]close[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
Yes I looked at those stats. So close now so yes I suppose if you can find a bit more with optimising when the inevtible happens you can add a bit more on top to help out.
Have you thought about aero bars and leg shaving?
;0)
Yes, a few times.. but i don't like the bubbly bits in them and the wife likes me being masculine and would likely leave if i shave my legs !
I think we're past optimising now and and simply into "Is the Parkwood holding back them final few W"... Answer is... I don't know.... But it may cost me £500 to find out 😀
Just go shopping here it'll get you there.
https://www.ceramicspeed.com/en/cycling/#utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shift_search_brand_uk
May cost more than £500 and probably a divorce but then you could shave.
Ive got an OSPW & BB on the bike i use on the turbo and im not divorced 😉
Well i'm having a bit of a sulk tonight.
Got some foot pain in the right foot on the outside. I've had it before.... but only when i had SPD-SL shoes previously... The odds of it coming back right after fitting them and it being a coincidence.... Hmmmm i don't think so. It generally goes away after 3-4 days, i think the SPDs are just generally a little bit too narrow for my big fat feet.
So we're back on the flats again for racing etc... Sigh... Ah well.
Anyway... Tomorrow 11:05am for a little bit of Richmond Flat fun i think is the order of the day for me. WFH tomorrow so early lunch and race fun.
Well i’m having a bit of a sulk tonight.
i went full meltdown this evening, and the air was blue - my window of opportunity is so small sometimes, however on these occasions the sodding bluetooth never connects or some such nonsense - was going to do the 1800 ToW, anyway, nothing connected and i was on with 90 seconds to spare, had to reboot the laptop, for some reason when i joined it dumped me in 300th out of 3000 - so cracked on, equalled my 5 minute best power for 2019 in the first 5 minutes, 20 minute wasn't too shabby considering there was 5km of downhill before the jungle climb, ended in a blob of 30-50 riders, was powering through the pack at the end, not too shabby overall - finished 317/3760