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You're being ranked on division, so the only time the other divisions bother you is if you beat a higher division (you'll have some of his points) or a lower division beats you (they'll have some of your points).
In a race today with 28 Cs, only 3 riders got + points. There were a couple of 0 and the rest were negatives. That also included 6 who DNF and therefore got a load of negative. So if what you're saying is true, then the people who finished and finished high should have got + points.
I've won C races before and got 0 points. Yes, of course you can say that's because of the strength of field etc, but clearly you're not ranked and given points purely on your category.
But whether you score -9 or 7 or 250 is irrelevant- the number is irrelevant.
What's relevant is how it, as a system, ends up ranking you in the Divisions. And I bet if you CVR stalked a few people you'd had close battles with, you'd be pretty closely ranked.
I'm guessing not in my case as I've had 4 dnf, which is 120-130 down as they're -30 or more. However in other cases that may be true.
I get frustrated as I race hard, pick up a top 5 in C and get 6 points. Race just as hard today, battle well and get -9. I wasn't any worse today than the other day, arguably in the last 5 minutes I did better as instead of giving up, I pulled 2 guys in and beat them.
This is why I don't care about CVR.
But it's a ranking system. The points are merely a tool to create accurate rankings- not a reward for finishing in a particular spot. You raced a small field against a load of poorly ranked riders so the points were never there for the taking.
Their A,B,C or D category is irrelevant and simply reflects their ftp not their ranking.
It is "sort of" right/fair - if all the Cs score zero or negative points, then they'll still all appear in similar parts of the league table. There won't be many points between a fast C and a slow one but if you only gain or lose a handful of points each time then that small gap takes some closing
At the top end I assume they ALL score highly, so it's like being a merchant banker - you get paid a shitload but you're still only as rich as the guy at the next desk ... 'til you lose a shitload in one or two goes like our man Finn (might be intersting to see how fast he or someone like him can get back up the lists, assuming he's got no health issues or whatever holding him back)
Whether it matters that the gap is massive between the "A" haves and the "C" have nots is down to what the numbers mean to you - I suspect that it is possible to climb out and get up the rankings if you genuinely improve loads; the trouble for you (and me) weeksy is that if you're already racing close to your potential then all you can do is avoid DNFs and scrabble about for handfuls of points
[crosshair](or train in a better way)[/crosshair] 😀
It's top 50% who score positive so in a race with a small A field or a KISS Second Base race etc etc then there are more chances for a C to score. How much they score depends on how many show up and how good they are.
Granted, second base races I can potentially get decent points, but they're only once a fortnight.
Weeksy- you can already see where you stacked up against the other C's in the race on Zwiftpower. What the CVR mathematicians have tried to address is how worthy that performance was in the context of every racer on Zwift.
That's no mean feat and my hunch is there won't be many ways to achieve it as fairly and NONE of them will end up giving you more points for an average finish in an average race with an average bunch of competition 😆
for an average finish in an average race with an average bunch of competition
It was hilly. 😥
And I'm 46! And fat!
I'd think of it like categories on a track day. If you rock up to Silverstone early in the year, before BSB starts your not going to want to be in the fast group. You'll have all the big hitters form the lower BSB classes doing their pre-season testing. But show up mid-summer, when there are loads of BSB/club races on, and you'll just have local punters like us. In that case it would be a different kettle of fish.
So if you have raced on Zwift during the summer the hardcore 'real life' crowd have been missing. But around now is when all the people with fancy tan lines are going to start showing up in Zwift. Chances are you'll take a hit in rankings no matter how well you ride.
But TBH I doubt I would ever look at it if I were racing. So agree with you there 🙂
Yes Scaredypants- you've got it 😆
If you want to score more points relative to everyone else racing on Zwift then you need to get relatively fitter compared to everyone else on Zwift.
That's just like real life. It doesn't matter if my ftp is +30w, what matters is that I finish the race better relative to everyone else who shows up 😉
It was hilly.And I'm 46! And fat!
Quite! So for that race on that day- you don't deserve any points 😆
They could run the same algorithm for each category separately but could even make things worse. You're then open to naughty B folk sandbagging their way to the top of the C league, maximising every result but just keeping within the limits.
I'm sure that happens already but imagine if the reward was "top of the worldwide C league" rather than just winning a single race - and the alternative was "look at me, I'm 434th in the worldwide B league".
But now replace Cats ABCD with Divisions P-10 and you've got it 🙂
May I say anyone wanting an explanation further on in this thread needs to be reverted back to these pages 😆
Unfortunately CVR is still open to abuse from those that are using ridiculous configurations/weight adjusting etc as it still relies on Zwiftpower's policing.
Well that kind of happened to me! TFC ran a series the other year. I started as a legit C but was pushing the boundary before the end. Like f*** I was going to upgrade myself before the final round 😆
And the w/kg boundaries are crap and arbitrary anyway.
I've often said it would be better to just have mass start races and let people filter the results based on their own criteria. That way you could always be the best 46year old fat scouser from Berkshire Weeksy 😉 😛 😆
Straight quote from your online dating profile?And I'm 46! And fat!
Out of curiosity, what are people’s HR averages like in races?
Overall and once up to speed!
Alright lads, I think i'm a bit late to the party here.
Is there a tutorial for Zwift? A STW club that i can join or anything like that?
First two efforts were a bit of a learning experience, need a bigger fan!
https://www.strava.com/activities/1265810055
https://www.strava.com/activities/1267214350
165-169 for me when racing as an average.
Peaking in races at 176-178
my tested max seems to be 182.
scaled - Member
Alright lads, I think i'm a bit late to the party here.Is there a tutorial for Zwift? A STW club that i can join or anything like that?
First two efforts were a bit of a learning experience, need a bigger fan!
Search in Strava for STW Zwifters.
Plenty of us have STW in their Zwift names and if you enter Zwiftpower, you can edit your profile and add in STW into the 'club' so it shows in Zwiftpower too.
Tutorial in what context buddy ? It's pretty much just get on and ride as you've found. Racing is slightly more complex, but any questions, throw them in here and one or more of us will answer, it's a pretty well used thread, so you rarely have to wait long.
Similar which makes sense being a similar age.
For yesterday in the second half I just aimed for 170 and held it there. Maxed out at 189, no idea what my tested Max would be. Or my resting for that matter.
Ha ha, Strava has pulled an image of yesterday’s race and added it to my log.
It’s just me, alone in the volcano!
I've never got mine over 183 in any test, sprint intervals, or racing etc.
Resting is 42-44
Part of me would love some of these crazy HRs i see with NAthb and Crosshair... but it's irrelveant sort of in the context that it's only in relation to your maximum and where you're racing that matters ?
From my own context, i know if i go over 170, then i'm drawing on reserves and can't sustain it for a terribly long time, it also affects my overall performance that once i get into the 'red' then i'm screwed as i can't maintain the power/pace once i've been in there.
My threshold HR is 176-180 BPM and Max is up around 198.
Isn't Chris Froome's threshold like 150bpm or similar??? So it's pretty irrelevant to anyone but you 🙂
Jesper hit 205 in an SZR race he streamed last night!!
my absolute max (achieved on the bike, anyway) is 171
racing, average probably 160-165
Yesterday's race, up to 169 shortly after the start and up 1st half of the hill, then reduced, presumably after I was dropped & "coasting"
Last half mile up to 170 again
I'm 52, so I guess that 171 pretty much really is my max - fits with all the generalisations anyway
So it's pretty irrelevant to anyone but you
Yes, pretty much. It’s more idle curiosity really.
Although I am at the stage where I’m starting to set myself objectives and benchmarks. But those are set against myself, not Chris Froome 🙂
Weeksy- that's what I was talking about with your flat power curve. You're great at threshold work now but don't have many matches to burn above threshold.
My power isn't significantly better than it was 12 months ago but my ability to do lots of hard efforts way above threshold has transformed.
In real life terms, you're actually well equipped for XC and CX racing now where you pretty much ramp your HR up to threshold and keep it there constantly.
Also for TT's but perhaps not in the aero department 😉
Zwift racing with the stronger draft is more like Crit racing now- it rewards hard efforts (to follow the quickest bunch possible) and fast recovery (to do it again soon).
In real life terms, you're actually well equipped for XC and CX racing now where you pretty much ramp your HR up to threshold and keep it there constantly.
Thank you. But the reality is.... I'm well equipped to be distinctly average 🙂
I had the option to race Gorrick last weekend, but all i'd find out is that i'm slightly better than last time and still distinctly average 🙂
I must admit, i still have desires to improve... .but i think unless many things radically change, this is where i'll be now.
As in any racing I do my HR is averaging in the low 160s and a fairly steady line (my max being about 182). Basically I couldn't go a lot higher without blowing up. The only Zwift race I've done the last 4 km are ramped up to a 170+ avg race max was 177 at the finish line.
Is there a tutorial for Zwift? A STW club that i can join or anything like that?
There's [url= https://zwiftblog.com/ ]https://zwiftblog.com/[/url] and [url= http://titaniumgeek.com/zwift-user-manual-unofficial-running-updates/ ]http://titaniumgeek.com/zwift-user-manual-unofficial-running-updates/[/url].
It's mostly pretty intuitive, but there are odd things that you forget you ever didn't know after a few weeks like how power-ups and drafting and kit upgrades and challenges etc work.
Signed up for a 100km ride on Saturday.
Already working on my excuses!
Should be fine, as long as you don't try and got at 250w for the duration... If you're happy to drop down some watts, you'll make it with ease.
What layout?
I think my plan has been scuppered by the powers that be anyway.
Pass revoked!
If i were wanting to improve my fitness for racing CX, which of the workout plans do you think would be most beneficial?
https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/
Over what timescale mos? What's your biggest limiter in races?
The two week Vo2 max booster looks brutally effective! Interestingly it gets you to set your ftp for the workout sessions to your five minute power as tested on day one- a clever way of scaling the workouts appropriate to your ability.
I'd say an FTP builder if you have time followed by that Vo2 max thing and then the final week of the 8 week race prep plan as a taper week?
Or dip into the 8 week race prep plan at whatever timescale you have left?
Probably between now and Jan. Its unlikely i am going to get to race again over the next few weeks due to work & family stuff.
Sweet Christmas:
https://www.zwiftpower.com/race.php?id=14530
My peak FTP was 339w and I was 3kg lighter back then... https://www.strava.com/activities/1268462364
That’ll learn me for not checking what route the race is on and for trying to rush home from work to race on Zwift lol...
I’m going for a nap...
I've had too much mexican food. Also going for a nap
(well done, BTW - and to Leeroy, though he appears to have defected from team STW to some other kack outfit)
Leeroy was in the lead group with me on Tuesday until the final selection on the downhill attack- seemed v strong!
Well done Nath, STW Wattage Bazooka for that effort!
Cheers guys!
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T'was a long drawn out TT and I had absolutely nothing in the tank after crossing the line!
Cartwright is a monster, truly is ridiculous! Always fun trying to keep up with him during his warmup though 😆
In the words of Razz Prince, PhoneShop area manager - "Gold". In a 8:05am race, but still a gold...........until they shuffle the results about.