Why perhaps are you so taken by personality over ideas/policies etc?
It feels to me like he is all about himself not the principles ie its all about him. Perhaps its just after what happened in Scotland with the greens there spending all their political capital on the GRA rather than their core issues thus actually achieving less on their core issues they were elected on
He also very much reminds me of the various socialist splinter groups all mouth and trousers. I also think he is diluting the core message
But its a very superficial understanding as its an England only party thus I haven't followed that closely
Labour don't give a **** about.
Labour still give a shit about actual things rather than immigrant straw men?
I think this could be the shot in the arm the left needs. Even if the Greens don't succeed in upping their number of MPs, if they increase vote share and get Labour to remember they're the Labour Party that'd be a win.
A great choice - beat fire with fire. Just needs to rename the party from the Green Party now.
He's got the right idea. Farage with Starmer as a support act have done a good job convincing the population that 'pandering' to green issues is making them poorer.
About time someone came out and let people know that diverting wealth from ordinary people to Farage and Starmer's friends is what is making them poorer, not windmills (or even brown people).
The mainstream papers and social media are not going to be happy so I predict it will be a messy futile effort. Someone has to do this though, so fair play. He's going to get eviscerated (and probably mostly by the very people who should be supporting him).
ah - so you guys do not actually want a Green party - you want yet another party of the left?
Where are the '! !'?
Being serious though, I just saw a clip of his speech on BBC, and yes he can communicate. If he can get air time he could do well and the country seems well past fed up with the conventional big parties so a new message from a less mainstream party might find plenty of supporters.
If theres no alliance with corbyns party I dont see them going anywhere, HypnoBoob or not
ON the contrary. an alliance with corbyns lot would mean a shortcut to oblivion IMO.
Two conflicting options there!
I think it's great to have a young and articulate communicator speaking positively and pushing back against Farage.
I think there will be an appetite for positivity.
Nothing else matters at this point as it's been awful for the last few years.
Corbyn tie up or not - it matters little currently The exciting bit is seeing how it pans out and there is so much at stake.
We need push back. At least it's on offer now.
About time someone came out and let people know that diverting wealth from ordinary people to Farage and Starmer's friends is what is making them poorer, not windmills (or even brown people).
Too right.
The narratives are there to shout about.
Even James O'Brien was being moderately kind about him.
Of late, I really have been subscribing to the idea behind the quote by Robin Williams.
Politicians, like diapers, should be changed frequently, and for the same reason.
Maybe we should give this one a go next
Covers all the bases here on tonight's Ch4 Fourcast interview.
I listened to him on the Mark Steel podcast. Seemed like a decent enough chap.
Just watched him on Newsnight. He was channeling Richard Murphy with a touch of Gary. Victoria Derbyshire didn’t seem to get what he was saying so the discussion didn’t really go anywhere.
Seems strange to have such change in the leadership from two newly elected MPs to a Member of the London Assembly when the Greens have gone from 1 MP (Caroline Lucas) to 4 at the 2024 election.
Two of those constituencies are former rural Tory constituencies (Waveney Valley and North Herefordshire) and are less likely to be enamoured by Polanski's left-wing populism. One of the others is Brighton Pavilion, which was the long-time seat of Caroline Lucas, so may still remain Green at the next election.
The fourth is Bristol Central, which was a new constituency formed largely from the previous Bristol West constituency, and which was previously held by Labour and has also been held by the Lib Dems and Tories in the time I have lived here. This was the number 1 target for the Greens who swamped the constituency with leaflets, posters, and had legions of supporters from across the country canvassing across the constituency. I live in this constituency and canvassed for the Labour candidate (Thangam Debbonaire), who had been MP for Bristol West since 2015. Most of the canvassing I did was in the more affluent, liberal parts of the constituency - Redland, St Andrews, Bishopston, Cotham - where many voters said Thangam was a fantastic MP but they were going to vote Green this time. I can't see many of these more affluent 'Greens' voting for a more radical Green Party at the next election unless the current MPs have some amazing successes during their time in Parliament - which is fairly unlikely due to their small number.
So potentially, unless Polanski can persuade hundreds of thousands of people to vote Green through his eco-populism approach, the Greens could be back down to one MP at the next election as the likes of the Lib Dems, Labour and Corbyn/Sultana party will offer a wider and better offer to that part of the electorate that might actually be bothered about the future of our planet (whether the parties deliver is a different matter).
Seems like a well intentioned guy. It’s getting a bit congested on the left though. It would be a heart over head vote and probably a wasted vote if wishing to keep Farage from ascending.
I live in Bristol Central, and absolutely will vote for him. I'd be very surprised if they didn't hold onto their seat.
Thangam was like many other labour MPs, including my former MP Darren Jones. Great in opposition, hugely disappointing in government. She was very popular right up until labour adopted a half arsed Tory lite manifesto, not to mention labours position on Palestine.
What this means nationally though is, I fear, even more votes sucked out of labour which ultimately will benefit Reform. He's also going to get a very hard time in the press.
It’s getting a bit congested on the left though.
Hardly, with how far right labour and the lib dems have swung over the past decades there is a huge void of representation on the left.
ah - so you guys do not actually want a Green party - you want yet another party of the left?
I want a green party that can actually make impacts on green policy, not a twee middle class protest party that is ignored.
The investment required to make environmental changes cannot happen separate from the main political direction, and it is suffering from being pigeonholed by isolationist thinking. Remember when Starmer had to deal with teenagers unfurling a banner about the environment, all he could muster is the usual neoliberal growth doctrine. That is what the green party has to fight against, they can't exclude the financial aspects of the needed transformation and how the continued greed of neoliberal dogma is preventing it.
Being Green requires a no growth society. Green does not equal socialist
He was channeling Richard Murphy with a touch of Gary. Victoria Derbyshire didn’t seem to get what he was saying so the discussion didn’t really go anywhere.
Probably because they are the two most clueless grifters in all of UK finance youtube (emphasis on youtube, not finance).
RIP to the Greens. I certainly won't be voting for them again. Neither will most of the silent majority.
Probably because they are the two most clueless grifters in all of UK finance youtube (emphasis on youtube, not finance).
In what way?
How do you think all the public stuff provided by the state came to be. (By investment from the state using its own purse.)
Don't be ridiculous. Can't you see the misinformation killing the country. First Tories and now the Labour have got us to this diasterous point.
Being Green requires a no growth society. Green does not equal socialist
That would be ignoring the investment of money in the counter-balance and provision of stuff that the mainstream economy has ignored.
You'd still get growth but it ought to be simply for public good rather than profit.
That includes green industries and the economy.
I'd get used the idea that the Greens are about social and economic justice too.
We can all see what's wrong with the status-quo.
Let's stop pretending that Labour and the Tories have done nothing but financialise everything and delivered appalling outcomes.
The Greens won't have an easy ride but we definitely need to move on the opposite direction to what we are currently.
It's going to be messy. But I welcome drastic change with the correct understanding of how the economy functions and the compass pointing in the public's direction.
The no growth society is a fundamental concept of real green policies
It will be very interesting to see where Polanski takes the english greens. As above I have not followed him in detail but he is showing some good political instincts in distancing himself from the Corbyn lot. His attacks on labour go a bit far "replace you" sounds like hubris to me. He certainly has got media attention.
I think this could go either way - he could end up taking the Greens into a better place or he could end up in the leftist splinter groups talking shop
We can only wait and see
Thangam was like many other labour MPs, including my former MP Darren Jones. Great in opposition, hugely disappointing in government.
Bit harsh to blame Debbonaire for being a disappointing MP in government considering she has never spent a day in government...!
He’s handled his media appearances well today (well, the radio ones I caught). Will be interesting to see how he does over the next few months.
How’s he doing so far? His focus on Reform (and the suggestions that others should stand up to rather than ape them) has been welcome. Could be a LibDem from his appearances so far. Aiming at a much wider electorate than I was expecting, or so it seems to me.
He’s handled his media appearances well today (well, the radio ones I caught)
He was on any questions and did pretty well I thought right up to the end when he was asked about NATO and he said he wanted to be in it but for NATO not to have nuclear weapons which given the current circumstances seems pretty naive.
Its hard for the greens as although a nuclear weapon free world is desirable advocating for NATO to give them up now seems like burying your head in the sand to the true situation in the world just now .
Having read what's easily found on the Net looking for something vaguely green in Polanski's recent declarations on say: climatic change, air pollution, pesticides, food quality, home insulation, energy transition.. I've failed. However shop lifters and immigrants get his consideration. Then ending NATO nukes, pretty good vote loser that and something he would have limited control over even if PM.
Having read what's easily found on the Net looking for something vaguely green in Polanski's recent declarations on say: climatic change, air pollution, pesticides, food quality, home insulation, energy transition.. I've failed.
Focusing on what a comfortable middle class person thinks the Green party should be focusing on is an vote loser.
If you can't convince people who are struggling that the reason they are poor is because rich people are stealing their money and not because of windmills and brown people then you might as well give up. Telling people you're going to encourage people to drive electric cars doesn't really help people who can barely afford to keep any kind of car on the road.
Unfortunately people who are struggling is a rapidly growing constituency so it makes sense to focus on them.
I'm not sure where the 'looks like a LibDem' thing comes from. Although I haven't paid any attention to the LibDems since I realised they have no principles and no core polices. The only core policy they have as far as I can tell is to get government jobs. Everything else is very much not binding.
Perhaps Polanski has the same goal. It wouldn't surprise me. However, I'm prepared to let him actually disappoint me before deciding he is going to disappoint me.
If you can't convince people who are struggling that the reason they are poor is because rich people are stealing their money and not because of windmills and brown people then you might as well give up.
I look forward to him telling people that then rather than focus on immigrants and shoplifters. And most people only think they can't afford an EV. They need someone to do the sums for them.
And a bonus (EVs) malus (ICEs) so advantageous/punative it's obvious which they can and can't afford.
Perhaps Polanski has the same goal. It wouldn't surprise me. However, I'm prepared to let him actually disappoint me before deciding he is going to disappoint me.
That's my view. He's the only person I can see taking the fight to Reform along with, strangely enough, Ed Davey and the Lib Dems.
A lot of people will swear blind the Lib Dems are evil Tory enablers due to the coalition, but I can see a Green/Lib Dem ticket being an attractive alternative to everything to the right of them.
If we are waiting for some modern day political messiah with an unblemished past to come along and save us we will be waiting a bloody long time. They've all been very naughty/stupid boys and girls at some point.
Green spend decades being told they're single issue cranks. New leader outlines an expansive policy platform that goes far beyond environmental issues. Peanut gallery says he doesn't say enough about environmental issues.
I don't agree with him but what do people want ffs?
If you can't convince people who are struggling that the reason they are poor is because rich people are stealing their money and not because of windmills and brown people then you might as well give up.
most people only think they can't afford an EV. They need someone to do the sums for them.
These poor people are too stupid to understand they only think they're too poor to afford an electric car?
I suggest you look at the cost of buying and running and second-hand Leaf and running it over say five years and compare that with any ICE politecameraaction. Second-hand EVs are cheap, one of the arguments I've seen against them is rapid depreciation 😉 have very low running costs and tend not to break wet belts or whatever at 30 000miles
have very low running costs
Unless you dont have the ability to charge at home like, well, a large part of the UK population at which point it becomes somewhat of a gamble which is cheaper especially when you add the inconvenience factor.
So there's a policy for Zack to make public - abundant nationalised charge infrastructure selling cheap electricity from nationalised wind farms. 🙂 Not that I expect to hear anything of the sort, he wants us all to take the bus and then you're looking a proper inconvenience factor (I'm probably in the top 1% of StWers in terms of annual mileage in busses). The biggest green party vote loser is suggesting people not use their car. The car is here to stay till the end of humanity, EVs produce about five times less CO2 over their life time than ICEs (French electricity mix) thats quite a gain and with huge public health benefits.
I would like to think any Green party would make clear that the main goal should be to move as large a percentage of the population as possible away from needing to own any kind of car. Consumption needs to be reduced in society as a whole. Changing the type of overconsumption is pointless posturing.
For years the Greens have focused on policies that help over-consuming middle class people feel better about their over-consumption. The fascination with electric cars illustrates that point perfectly. Electric cars are still cars and still very bad.
Persuading society as a whole to consume less is an easier sell if people don't feel like they are struggling. That is why an actual Green policy is to ensure that people at the very least have what they need to survive.
Electric cars are still cars and still very bad.
True but tell that to the vast majority of the voting population and you just lost their vote.
Much as the older generation love to hark back to the 50s when many didn't have a car they don't want to go back there. Green policies need to be socially workable and attractive without dumping many people into poverty which is where consuming less leads when consumption drops. Shutting down the economy is really green as the Covid lockdowns demonstrated. Green growth is not an oxymoron: insulating homes, using heat pumps rather than gas central heating, investing in rail whilst making flying unattractively expensive, retrofitting solar, EV vehicle and infrastructure, more labour intensive less chemical dependant agriculture... can all fuel the economy whilst reducing emissions.
Well then we fundamentally disagree because I think Green growth is an oxymoron.
Greener growth, sure. But then every party is promising greener growth.
But I don't think persuading society that we need to consume less is a non-starter. However, telling people who are choosing between heating and eating to consume less is a terrible idea. But then so is telling them to buy an electric car.
But then so is telling them to buy an electric car.
If they really need a car, and some people do, it was part of my contractual obligations in a UK job for example, then a bangernomics Leaf is a better choice than ICE for someone on a limited budget.
If they really need a car, and some people do, it was part of my contractual obligations in a UK job for example, then a bangernomics Leaf is a better choice than ICE for someone on a limited budget.
I'm sure it is. But in the grand scheme of things it will do nothing for the environment.
Norway has gone almost 100% electric and all the infrastructure needed for cars is still there. All the tarmac is still being laid. If anything there is even more tarmac being laid because electric cars weigh more so they chew up roads more. People can't use their streets because on street parking is still needed everywhere. People still aren't cycling in significant numbers because if anything people are using their cars even more because all these electric cars are so green. Busses are still too expensive and don't go often enough/to the right places so people use their green cars instead.
But middle class Norwegians still gather for a circlejerk over how green they all are and how great they are for going 100% electric. All while continuing to over-consume (only over-consuming 'green' products, obviously) and while producing more oil and gas per capita than Saudi Arabia.
Unless you dont have the ability to charge at home
Electric car enthusiasts always seem to forget this convenvient fact don't they? The sort of people who can only afford a 'bangernomic Leaf' are also the same people who don't have offroad parking or a spare £1k (or thereabouts) to install a 7.4kw charger at home. Until the govt/car industry grasps this fact electric cars will continue to be a luxury for the middle class. In fact the car industry obviously already knows this, that's why the electric car market is mainly targeted at the demographic who can afford to spend >£20k on a car.
