Sbob, that is, sadly, absolutely spot on.
"if context is irrelevant, then even me reporting that the defendant said 'gass the jews' is a crime.
If you'll forgive the source, there is a good piece on Wings Over Scotland on why this is a huge issue
FWIW, Nazi Pugs = funny. "Gas the Jews" slips into offensive, but it shouldn't be illegal
CPS guidance on the offence;
"Just because the content expressed in the communication is in bad taste, controversial or unpopular, and may cause offence to individuals or a specific community, this is not in itself sufficient reason to engage the criminal law. As Lord Bingham made clear in DPP v Collins:
There can be no yardstick of gross offensiveness otherwise than by the application of reasonably enlightened, but not perfectionist, contemporary standards to the particular message sent in its particular context. The test is whether a message is couched in terms liable to cause gross offence to those to whom it relates."
Do we think these communications caused gross offence to those to whom it relates? evidence presented at the trial from the director of Scottish Council of Jewish Communities, detailed it did and was accepted by the court. But maybe stw forumites are better placed to weigh this up?
so your argument is that you can broadcast [i]anything[/i] you like, no matter how offensive, as long as you preface it with “this is a joke”? Yeah, can’t see that being abused at all 😂Provides my somethingion whilst avoiding the swear filter.
I think a re-read of 1984 is in order!!I have severe misgivings about laws trying to suppress “thought crimes” and this is not far off it.
so your argument is
This is insane. The law covers "...inciting racial hatred" not "...daft wee fannies training their GF's dogs to react to offensive commands to comic effect".
"Potentially imprisoning this man for a joke, is a joke. It sets a very dangerous precedent."
Very much this.
Do we think these communications caused gross offence to those to whom it relates? evidence presented at the trial from the director of Scottish Council of Jewish Communities, detailed it did and was accepted by the court. But maybe stw forumites are better placed to weigh this up?
<span class="bold_13">Ephraim Borowski made it quite clear that irrespective of what Meechan actually did or said, you can't make jokes of the holocaust. So this was nothing to do with being offended, it was a power grab.</span>
Saying he took it personally as he lost family in the holocaust is a pathetic excuse. I lost family in the holocaust. Half my family lived in Poland when the Germans invaded. Get over it you're not special.
Bantz, innit.
From Sbob’s posted video;
“You know the only other place you’d get prosecuted for taking the piss out of nazis? NAZI F@&£ING GERMANY!”
Spot on. Going to prison for making a bad joke but (for example) receiving a conditional caution for assaulting a paramedic who has been sent help you, is frankly, a piss take.
I’m mildly surprised at JYs position on this.
Also, as a point of order; I’ve watched the video and it has been misrepresented slightly; the pug wakes/shows an interest at the “Wanna gas the Jews” said in an excited voice to it, it’s trained to give a nazi salute on “sieg heil”. Small detail. Either way, it’s a bad taste joke, and REALLY shouldnt be a crime. This is beyond sinister.
FWIW, having watched the video (because you should, if you are going to have an opinion) the chap doesn’t come across as a right wing nut job, just a wind up merchant.
I’m mildly surprised at JYs position on this.
I'm not, it's a pattern of behaviour and thinking that is being repeated by him and many others on the very far left in response to anything that doesn't conform to their view of acceptable.
Shouty/sweary man is not right just because he's shouting & swearing loudly. The original video is not satire, and the intention is not to take the piss out of nazis. This is very clearly explained at the start of the oringal video. The intention is to upset his girlfriend by doing the most abhorrent thing he can think of. If he's subsequently taken the satire/parody stance as a defence, it's clearly just an arse-covering exercise.“You know the only other place you’d get prosecuted for taking the piss out of nazis? NAZI F@&£ING GERMANY!”
I’m not, it’s a pattern of behaviour and thinking that is being repeated by him and many others on the very far left in response to anything that doesn’t conform to their view of acceptable.
Going by recent years, I wouldn't be surprised if the far left has been infiltrated by the far right as a means of driving more people in the middle to the right.
Shouty/sweary man is not right just because he’s shouting & swearing loudly
Granted, but it doesn’t mean he’s not right either. So a moot point really.
The intention is to upset his girlfriend by doing the most abhorrent thing he can think of.
And his motive for this is to incite hatred of the Jews? Or is it to get purile laughs? Because ones a crime, and the others just not funny.
it’s a pattern of behaviour and thinking that is being repeated by him and many others on the very far left
you mean a pattern of behaviour and thinking that is solely perpetrated by angst ridden teenagers, who are then swiftly labeled as very far left by middle aged attention seeking far right swivel eyed psychotic nutjobs (oh and junkyard sometimes gets on the wacky bus too, but that's due to forgetting his meds IMO)
agreed. It's the fact that he's wrong that means he's not right!Granted, but it doesn’t mean he’s not right either.
The title of Pie's video is "It's a JOKE!".
He is right.
Get a sense of reality.
take the piss out of nazis
Oh noes!
zilog6128 is guilty of a hate crime!
agreed. It’s the fact that he’s wrong that means he’s not right!
This word, ‘fact’. I don’t think it means what you think it means...
Bizarre judgement to stupid bad taste video made by a moron.
zilog6128 is guilty of a hate crime!
Only if you take his comments out of context... oh. Errr...