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The solution in US isn't to aim for gun control, that can't happen under the present system. Instead, they need reform of their lobbying system and spend limits on campaigning.
Put elected politicians in charge who are not owned by powerful lobbying groups like the NRA and you can then hope for change
Of course they have 🙄
Rome fiddling while burns, rearrange etc etc...
There's a lot of conflation of two issues here because both involve guns. One is the individual shooting, mostly of poor black men by other poor black men who know or know of each other. The other is the mass shootings, nearly always within different socio economic groupings. Both are equally concerning. Actually, that's probably not true - mass shootings have a newsworthy shock value and often impact communities that otherwise see little gun violence, by gunmen with legally held weapons. But the individual shootings have the higher number of victims. The solutions will be different too.
Sure they are different, but the root issue isn't: The easy access to very deadly weaponry. The statistics don't really care whether you've been shot with a 9mm or a 5.56mm round, our whether the shooter used a handgun or a knock-off AR15, or whether its a dude from the next block who's cousin you killed last week, or that you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when a Proud Boy goes postal. If Americans mostly agree that the public shouldn't have easy access to guns; how many variations of social issues there are, or even what weapon is used isn't the thing that any one needs to concentrate on.
It's just a distraction technique that the Republicans use to complicate a very straight forward problem
Some fabulous crap being spouted on Twitter
https://twitter.com/Itsup2debate/status/1717385111795020046?s=20
The shooter was a former marine, a firearms instructor and was carrying an assault rifle. But apparently it only needed good ol boy Jeff down at the bowling alley to have a handgun stuffed in his jeans to stop it all.
But apparently it only needed good ol boy Jeff down at the bowling alley to have a handgun stuffed in his jeans to stop it all.
It's well known the best way to stop people shooting people is for other people to shoot people.
The only thing a redneck with a gun would have done is made themselves a target.
Bloody idiots
I know it's cold but I'm past caring
Sure they are different, but the root issue isn’t
I disagree. The outcome isn't, the root is. The outcome is death by gunshot wound. The root is why the gun was picked up and fired and that is totally different.
Onion on the mark again https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1850961776
Onion on the mark again
Twice today in fact!
Reality is another mass shooting makes no difference and never will, they long ago made the decision that mass shootings are an acceptable cost and then set about figuring out how to ignore them, the 600th in a year isn't going to make any difference to the 500th or the 400th. Because the right to bear arms is way more important than the right to not get murdered at school.
I am so glad I don't live in the US. I used to think it would be cool to live there but the idea of sending my kids to school and not knowing if they would come home alive has put me right off the place. That and the health care system.
Moved here just over a year ago, to Connecticut. The Road club I joined regularly pass Sandy Hook Memorial on our club runs. I've met a couple who's kid was in the school that day and lost one of his best friends and a woman who counsels parents of survivors. There is a fair amount states can do to restrict access to these type of weapons. CT has tightened it's rules considerably, still not perfect but I've heard people describe each law like a layer of swiss cheese eventually there will be few holes.
Red & Blue states are like different countries and on an increasingly divergent path, Maine may well try to do something about access to these type of weapons although I suspect not enough to restrict access to a firearms instructor. Places like Texas are beyond hope!
@ElVino. Interesting perspective from the right side of the pond.
There's no border control between each state right? So isn't it a case of lowest common denominator - meaning you just go get your automatic rifle from the next state across?
So isn’t it a case of lowest common denominator – meaning you just go get your automatic rifle from the next state across?
A common argument from the gun lobby is that Chicago has a lot of shootings but strong gun laws which therefore shows restrictions dont work.
They skip over the minor detail the neighbouring areas have very loose laws and hence anyone who wants a gun in Chicago just needs to travel half an hour or so to acquire one.
villageidiotdanFree Member
@ElVino. Interesting perspective from the right side of the pond.There’s no border control between each state right? So isn’t it a case of lowest common denominator – meaning you just go get your automatic rifle from the next state across?
In theory that is true, I guess most places you have to show ID to purchase a gun even if they don't do a background check. The tightening of laws has definitely made a difference to gun crime in CT. It also helps that we are surrounded by states with similarly tight gun laws. Saying there is no point tightening them just because state down the road has loose laws is another reason to do nothing.
Saying there is no point tightening them just because state down the road has loose laws is another reason to do nothing.
To be clear that wasnt my suggestion. More than it should be federal law so some nutcases in one state cant screw over the rest of the USA and various other countries for that matter. Mexico definitely has a problem with guns being brought legally in the US and then smuggled there from the US and think some other countries in the area do as well.
The only thing a redneck with a gun would have done is …
… probably killed or wounded a bunch of other innocent people because he’s incapable of actually hitting a barn door if it was five metres in front of him. In any case, it looks like the perp is wearing proper tactical gear like a hard-plate Kevlar vest, so bringing him down would likely only be possible with a head shot or putting a round through each knee, and I think we can all agree that the possibility of that happening with someone who barely knows how to use a handgun without shooting themselves in the foot/dick/ass are somewhere between fat and slim.
America doesn't need gun control. Ammo control, that's what it needs. Tax the shit of out them, see how many mass shootings there are when it's forty bucks a bullet.
The only thing a redneck with a gun would have done is …
… probably killed or wounded a bunch of other innocent people because he’s incapable of actually hitting a barn door if it was five metres in front of him.
Yeah. I read a statistic a while back, the accuracy of trained armed responders is something depressing like about 18%. Your average gun nut ain't going to be much use other than drawing fire.
I believe Americans see guns as a necessary evil. There are just far too many about and for a very long time meaning even if they banned them tomorrow, they would keep popping up.
Because criminals and gang members have them, then in order to feel safe, which is a fallacy in the truest sense of the word, the average US citizen truly believes they need them too.
Regarding gun control, whilst I support strong gun controls, I don’t believe that’s actually the problem in the US. The problem is a society that promotes the conditions where people want to go out and shoot a load of people.
Disagree. Guns make it easy for a relatively unskilled, cowardly, misguided individual to do whatever they want. Add some skill/training and we see what happens quite regularly.
Its very hard (near impossible?) for a single person to kill 31 people and kill 18, unless you have a gun, or a crowd in front of your vehicle.
You can't pick off a target whilst hiding across the street without a gun, you've got to grapple/restrain them to get a decent stab and risk being injured yourself.
You can't shoot an intruder running off your property with a knife. (not self defense if they are already running off)
You can't reach for your gun when engaged in a good old bit of light hearted road rage, you've gotta run them off the road instead.
If we had similar gun ownership (1/3rd of adults) I have no doubt we would have a huge increase in gun deaths. We share many of the social challenges with the USA (homelessness, poverty, PTSD, drug crime etc)
Guns make it easy for a relatively unskilled, cowardly, misguided individual to do whatever they want.
I think you missed the point they were trying to make. Invest - at a national/societal level - in education, training, mental health etc etc and you reduce the pool of potential mass shooters.
Talk to most Police and social workers in the UK and they will tell you that if you invest in early years family support, addiction support, education, health and social care, good social housing, training for kids who aren't academic, you will ultimately save on unemployment and other benefits, Police and prison bills, etc etc. It's a generational payback, which is why no government fixated on a 5 year election cycle will do it.
Early intervention alongside proper gun controls would be doubly effective IMHO. I don't think spooky necessarily missed the point, both approaches should be taken.
If we had similar gun ownership (1/3rd of adults) I have no doubt we would have a huge increase in gun deaths. We share many of the social challenges with the USA (homelessness, poverty, PTSD, drug crime etc)
Absolutely this^^
Mexico definitely has a problem with guns being brought legally in the US and then smuggled there from the US and think some other countries in the area do as well.
Mexico also has a problem with guns being bought by narco-terrorists and flooding the country from the rest of South America.
The hardware on show from recent battles has been mind boggling.
Apart from the obvious risks of mass shootings here is another example of risks of allowing civilians to arm themselves.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3k5qv21g1o
In an interview with CBS affiliate WTTV, Mr Velazquez said the bullet came right through the door of the home.
"They should've called the police first instead of just shooting out of nowhere like that"
Interesting seeing how the same event is seen differently through different lenses.
The BBC today places an US shoot as its 3rd item on the front page
'Four Killed in shooting at child's birthday party in California'
The New York Times report of the same event has its reporting of story more than halfway down the page under 'more news' after 'weekend reads' and other showbiz fluff. Their headline:
'4 Dead after shooting in Banquet Hall in California' - even through children are amongst the victims the fact that it was an event for children that was targeted doesn't make it into the headline
I believe Americans see guns as a necessary evil. There are just far too many about and for a very long time meaning even if they banned them tomorrow, they would keep popping up.
Because criminals and gang members have them, then in order to feel safe, which is a fallacy in the truest sense of the word, the average US citizen truly believes they need them too.
I worked with an American who lived in New Orleans.
He kept a handgun and a shotgun (pump action) in his bedroom.
He reasoned that if he didn't have them someone would come into his home, kill him and steal his stuff. This may be true I don't know.
To be honest I found it odd that the latest shooting appeared so highly on the bbc news. We have a far bigger interest in what happens in America than in our neighbours in Europe.
was the shooter of the cleaning woman Rigby Reardon?Apart from the obvious risks of mass shootings here is another example of risks of allowing civilians to arm themselves.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3k5qv21g1o
In an interview with CBS affiliate WTTV, Mr Velazquez said the bullet came right through the door of the home.
"They should've called the police first instead of just shooting out of nowhere like that"