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I’m trying to see it as more of a hobby than just needing the end result. Some of it is fun at least and I’m really learning a lot.
Same for me really, Ive wanted to build one for years, but Mrs hasn't fancies it. But the last year or so the children have started doing Tri’s and cyclocross (as well as all the other stuff) and every event you go to there are loads of campervans. One day we where sitting in another muddy field for 8 hours and she asked what I wanted for my 50th, I said campervan and she said “sounds like a good idea”, happy days.
I’m loving building it and like you learning new skills all the time. I’m “okay” at DIY, played with cars a lot in my youth and an electrical engineer by trade (we’ll I was about 30 years ago). But this is so much more. YouTube has been invaluable, but it’s a rabbit hole you disappear down for days on end.
Starting the kitchen units this week. Gone for a track saw to try and get my cuts straighter.
Are you going for DVLA re classification?
Are you going for DVLA re classification?
Probably wont bother as I don't want stickers and wasn't planning on an awning. I'm fine with the speed limits and my insurance is £320 anyway, so I don't think there's a lot to gain.
I was going to originally, before all the changes.
Gone for a track saw to try and get my cuts straighter.
Mine has been invaluable. As soon you get it, you wish you'd had it years ago. That and a good shop vac.
played with cars a lot in my youth
That's one thing completely missing from my experience and something that does terrify me slightly when I know how much work I've put into the innards. Thankfully I've got a couple of good mechanics that I trust locally.
Somebody asked what I would do if someone nicked it. I nearly cried imagining it 🙁
Just realised, I've completely missed out electrics. I'll try and gather photos together.
Rear seats. Part 2
Time to start building these metal bases into actual seats!
We were in a mad rush to go on holiday, so not as many photos as some bits.
We had all the seat sizes in the CAD, so I cut them all out of 12mm Birch ply.
They weighed a lot and would probably stop our mattresses breathing, so I cut millions of holes in them.
I made a paper template of the pattern (from CAD) and bradawled all the points in and cut them all with a Wickes holesaw.
The odd pattern on the left is because that's the seat back that separates into 2 sections to leave room to extend the kitchen.
We placed them roughly into the van to measure how long the seat belt clip straps needed to be and started planning what model of seat belt to go for.
One annoying discovery was that even though there are seat belt mounts in the c-pillar at the top, there isn't really a specific place for the reel at the bottom. So I had to decide whether to mount the reel at the top, or put some kind of spreader plate and custom mount at the bottom.
After umming and ahhing for a while we decided to buy:
Securon 254 top which has a top retractor and a floppy strap for the buckle (some have a more rigid wire, but the lengths just didn't seem to match and I wasn't sure if they would get out of the way of the bed as easily.
Meanwhile, my wife set to work on the upholstery. We got some fabric from a local fent shop (after much deliberation natch) and my eldest wrote a programme (he's a bit bonkers like that) to determine the least amount of fabric we needed and the fewest cuts! £84 - you could buy some nice wood for that!
The mattress is a brand new double from Ikea that we chopped up and wrapped in wadding:
Meanwhile 2: The seats came back from the powder coaters. We couldn't decide on colour, so when they said they had some cheap matt grey left over, I went for that. Total cost for soda blasting and coating was £80.
So I did a final fit of all the rails, catches, etc. I also made the supports for the infill section of the bed. This uses the same fixing holes as the drawer runner and has a bit that sticks out beyond the seat and is slightly higher than it. Very rounded corners so that we don't hurt ourselves on this. The seat belt clip strap neatly fits through this and flops over the side. Phew!
Our living room was temporarily unavailable!
Seat belt strapping (actually cut from the double seat from the van before we chucked it) is stapled to the back and base with just the right amount of gap to leave room for the mattress
And velcro is stapled to the bases and sewn onto the cushions
Et voila!
Infill used as a sofa back.
We 3D printed some inserts into the bottom of the legs with a captive nut so that we could screw some ebay feet into it to make it adjustable.
And quickly slapped some card into the middle to make some under-seat storage!
We also 3D printed a door knob to release the seat catch and some end caps for the box section.
This pic shows the way the two back panels slide together.
For our first trip we secured a wooden structure between the c-pillars to support the backs.
As a lucky accident, we realised that the top section of the passenger seat back slotted down between the sliding door and the seat to proved a seat back there too! (I'll try and get a pic of this sometime)
A photo or two of the the unforseen goodness (was quite useful on our first couple of trips):
We quickly framed up the rear transverse bunk, added slats and placed a mattress below that (in the final position but on the floor)
"
(son #2 didn't want this photo posted)
Then we went on holiday! For a week on the Northumberland Coast
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It was ace!
Things we learnt:
- Transverse bed is only just long enough for me to be comfortable.I preferred to be diagonal. Oops - I'll have to get used to that.
- Van drives great, although noisy with windows down in 30-degree heat.
- Also in 30-degree heat the Air Con was a bit pants - just not enough for an open bulkhead maybe. Not sure. It was fine when I bought the van with the bulkhead in.
- Also in 30-degree heat and sun, the front windows are the main problem, with silver screens in place whenever stationary, it was pretty good. Especially with the rooflights open. Driving was a bit hot though.
- Rear seats were really comfy for the boys - phew!
- Silver screens were fine for the front windows at night - no need for £500 reimo blinds!
- Managed to level the van with rocks/planks, etc but some levelling ramps might be nice.
- Mattresses were comfy (it's what the boys sleep on at home anyway).
- Plenty of room for us to sit including multiple options - need a table though - trays on laps was a bit of a pain.
- Atmos was really nice - cosy.
- Height difference between the front and rear seats was liveable with.
- Shoe storage and coat storage in wet weather was something we were going to have to carefully consider.
- Parking the L4 can be a bit of a pain when in town centres - Supermarkets win, as does parking a bit out of town and having a walk. Not a major deal, but does need thinking about.
- Being limited to 50 on A-roads and 60 on dial carriageways didn't really bother me. I was driving in a chilled manor anyway. So perhaps I'm not bothered about getting it classed as a motor caravan.
We didn't have much interior storage, so most things were in the boot, which was a pain, but hopefully overcome on the completed van.
I know I'm talking to myself, but I promise I'll get around to the electrics - I've just drawn out the circuit diagram!
Excellent work!
👍
Electrics
First job is to plan everything.
We decided on a service channel to go between the c-pillars (just behind so that the entry points were in the kitchen and under the side bunk). See previous posts for that in the floor.
Most electrical equipment is going under the driver's side rear seat.
Kit:
-Garage lights and a 12v socket.
-Kitchen lights above worktop
-Ceiling lights on 2 circuits (living room and bed area).
-Light and turnoffable USB socket next to each bed head.
Might also need ignition for cooker and feed for water pump, but as these are accessible from the service channel, I didn't need to route anything behind ply lining.
So, during insulating, I routed conduit through all the areas I could reach through pillars and sills.
Here you can see how I routed the conduit to the light points
Then threaded the wires though. There are a couple of pinch points on the passenger side c-pillar, but just about possible to cram it all in.
I used 2.5mmsq for everything low ampage (lights, USB, 12v, etc)
Here are the wires going to the top of the double bed and the lockers above
And this shows where the hub is going to go at the back of the rear seat.
The solar wires come down from the roof and out here too.
Then after our first holiday I tackled wiring it all up.
Even though I don't have a smart alternator (and so in theory could just do a standard split charge), I decided on a Ring RSCDC30 to combine Battery to Battery charging and solar controller. It can cope with my solar panel's large voltage and people seem to report that it looks after batteries pretty well.
I'm not bothering with 240v hookup as it's not our intention to stay on large campsites, so this is the wiring diagram
First job was to buy a leisure battery, fuse box and cable to wire up
I decided on a 180Ah flooded battery from Varta as they have an excellent reputation for not emitting gas and for reliability and also because it fills the allocated area really well (2 normal batteries would have to go in a different section of seat)
We strapped it down using M8 threaded rod and angle iron through the floor with large washer/spreader plates under.
I wish we'd used M6, because the M8 was a bit rigid and one of the holes was pretty near a chassis rail, so it needed angling slightly. They are actually putting a bit of force on the battery, so we needed to protect the corners with plastic angle.
Since this photo, I've also put battens screwed to the floor all around the bottom edge. "It's going nowhere" lol.
Then we started routing the cables...
There's a channel across the width of the van under the front seats, but to get to it you have to come out from the battery bay into the footwell. So the route goes:
Battery box > 40A inline fuse > Passenger footwell > through to driver footwell (via the fuel tank hatch which offers a useful mid-point to pull through from) > Along the drivers b-pillar > into my step > Through the wall opposite the sliding door > out into battery area near c-pillar.
It actually only took an hour and the 16mmsq cable is surprisingly flexy and easy to route.
According to the specs of the Ring unit, I only needed 10mmsq, but I fancied more just in case I used a higher amp charger in future.
From battery bay, along the footwell and into the widthways channel:
Showing my method of pulling through in the centre hatch for fuel tank access:
Looking towards the rear showing the routing through the b-pillar:
Then I made a (probably temporary) board to mount all the electrics on:
And spent a peaceful afternoon on my own connecting everything up.
ALl fuses are out at this point BTW.
You can just see the earth point I created behind the battery on that first photo - It's an M6 nut and blot through a wire brushed part of the chassis. Then all the copper tube terminals are threaded on and a wing nut tightens it all down.
And tidied:
I didn't really like the way the cables entered the Ring unit unsupported, so I made a wooden board to put against it and zip-tied everything tightly to it.
From left-to-right it's
- Temp sensor to leisure batt
-- Solar
--- Starter batt
---- Leisure batt
Then I threw in a few switches and attached some lights so I could test.
Then placed all fuses in to make it all live.
Woohoo!
I found this great way to protect the battery terminals from accidental shorting.
There's this amazing plastic stuff (called Polymorph) that comes in tiny balls, that when you put it in near-boiling water, it becomes mouldable and stays mouldable for a few minutes even after cooling.
So I made some custom covers that clip over the terminals for a couple of quid's worth of the stuff!
Still transparent and mouldable:
Set:
More electrics to come...
BTW - the polymorph stuff was the higher temperature version - about 90-degrees
🙂
So good! So inspiring! Commenting so I can find again as we may be about to do something similar although not so ambitious...
julioflo - good to know it's inspiring! When I saw Mike D's thread it was the start of my plans too!
There's also a favourite button at the top of the page. Then it goes into your favourites page that you can access later. I use it all the time.
More electric thoughts:
When I was buying the Ring B2B/Solar charger was fairly unique.
Now there are a few alternatives, just be careful that the voltage range on them can cope with your preferred solar panel.
These cheap domestic panels (like mine) usually have higher voltages than the vehicle-specific panels so you need to make sure that your controller can cope. The Ring can do up to 50V, but some of the competitors only do 25V for example.
I would have bought the Ctek unit, but it could only do 23V without another expensive add-on.
(although the add-on also makes for faster charging from alternator).
@alexsimon Great thread! and a small favour to ask....
I have those ceiling lights for my LWB T6. I have it insulated, carpeted and electrics are ready to be connected once my kitchen units arrive etc and can be fixed permanently. Here is a mock up to test and before dismantling for later fitting:
[img] 
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Question I have is do you have a wiring diagram for the ceiling lights?????
No worries.
Just put them in parallel.
That little 12v socket set you've got on the far right of your photo shows the wiring perfectly (although you don't need the negative if the switch doesn't have an led). I can't stand leds everywhere so I bought ones without).
Everywhere you want a switch, put a new circuit. Calculate the wire thickness based on total number of lights in that one circuit.
If the length of wire from fusebox to light is absolutely massive, you could consider putting an earth point near the light instead of coming back to the fuse box - that reduces the voltage drop and therefore the gauge of the wire.
If the parallel thing and the switches is still confusing you, let me know and I'll draw a diagram.
Whether you go with separate wires from the switch to each light, or daisy chain them from each other (in parallel) doesn't matter. I've done the former for now, but it's all temporary until I get top cupboards in.
A diagram would be easier, but I'm not at my main computer at the moment!
Thanks @alexsimon appreciate that. Share your dislike of LED's find them irritating during the night.
I'll link to the switches I bought tomorrow
I bought some of these:
https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/onoff-round-mini-rocker-switch-12v.html
(which need the 4.8mm female blade terminals if you're crimping - that might be the red-size insulated ones, but I haven't tried)
And some of these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263456312957
(which take the blue-size insulated female blade terminals)
I really like the toggle-style ones, but there are a few places where they'd get in the way.
More electrics
Finally - some finishing touches!
Finally - a chance to use my cnc router!
Decided to make my own 12v panels.
After a while of deliberating (seems to be common with the van!), I decided on just using standard 12v sockets everywhere, then I can use USB sockets within those, and hopefully keep up-to-date with USB-C, etc and higher charging speeds.
I also decided not to mount permanent reading lights anyway - again using plug-in USB things. So far (16 nights in the van) I'm happy with my decision.
I fancied easy-access to the back of the sockets, so I designed my own socket panels. Everything is switched to prevent any unwanted battery drain.
The intended use is reading lights when in bed, mobile devices for the rear seat passenger and then an extra one for laptop charging or other electrical devices (like a vacuum, etc)
As these are next to the seats (at about hip level) and next to the head of the bed, I decided to keep everything as flush as possible, so the nice toggle switches were replaced with those plastic round things that I don't really like, but look ok with a small rebate.
With these, I'm limited to 16A though, so may have to be careful with what I plug into it.
Currently, I just undersized the hole I drilled in the back board and screwed the M4 bolts straight in - seems sturdy enough, but I can always glue a nut to the rear if needed.
There are a a couple of other places I'll be having something similar - end of kitchen for rear bunk, and end of overhead locker for side bunk use.
Very nice surrounds, I like that & I would love a CNC router, I assume it's your work?
We're just starting a L3H2 Relay build, so a bit shorter than you. I'll have another read through of your thread looking for tips 🙂
Also I think I'm going to do the same as you and fit sockets for plug in adapters, the chinese ones I used before were always OK but seemed a bit dubious quality.
It's a hobby-level CNC that I built. It uses 3D printed parts (I bought the 3D printer with it in mind).
It's great, but the 500x700mm work area means I can't use it much in the van.
So far I've used it for those channels you can see in the step-locker in the photo above,
I've used it to create a cubby-hole next to the rear bunk (I'll cover that later).
And I'm thinking I might use it for the overhead lockers.
Wow that’s awesome. 500 x 700 would definitely be handy for a few bits.
I need a new router, the chuck has gone on mine. What one is that and how do you rate it? (Not the whole rig, just the router).
The router is probably not good enough for general routing (although you can buy a plunge base for it). It's a Katsu (only £40).
But I've just bought a new proper router and as I wanted to mount it in a table, by far and away the best option seemed to be the Triton MOF001 for my needs. Only used it a couple of times, but seems great. The other one I was considering was the Rutlands's own brand one.
Quick question? In the early side windows you say the windows are 1100*550 I can't seem to find these only 1000*550... I want some windows the same as yours but i'm just double checking yours it's not a typo..
And where did you get the sliding window from?
Oh.... and thanks to you and Mike for the inspiration...
meet Evan our L4H2 Boxer..
He’ll have his own thread as soon as my wallet recovers from the initial purchase 😳
What's the DVLA (or whoever) process for adding the seats in the rear so it becomes a 4/5 seater instead of 2/3 seater? Or was this a kombi/crew type van originally?
@Tiger6791 Definitely 1100x550 Polyvision (not aero)
I think ours were being sold off after a caravan company went bust. Magnum Motorhomes had them on ebay. Same with the side window. I paid £95 each which is a bit different from the Seitz list prices! I paid an extra £84 for each of the blinds though, which the seitz include.
It's always worth a call to Magnum - they had others in that they never listed on ebay.
Welcome to the club! I look forward to seeing your thread. I see you've gone for a fancy colour 🙂
@dmorts It's really simple - just put '4' in the box, add a couple of photos and send off the V5 (I changed it to 'Van with windows' at the same time).
Then it's up to the MOT inspector to check them each time they see it (I've just had my MOT last week). I just closed the buckles to make it obvious they were seat belted seats and all he did was check that they were bolted through the floor. No stress.
@Tiger6791 - the side window was 900x450mm
This is the Magnum listings, but it looks like it's weird shapes and sizes only now:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2546172.m570.l1313&_nkw=Surplus+Polyvision&_sacat=0
@dmorts It’s really simple – just put ‘4’ in the box, add a couple of photos and send off the V5 (I changed it to ‘Van with windows’ at the same time).
Then it’s up to the MOT inspector to check them each time they see it (I’ve just had my MOT last week). I just closed the buckles to make it obvious they were seat belted seats and all he did was check that they were bolted through the floor. No stress.
It is unnerving that a more in-depth assessment isn't required, imagine what people could (and probably do) get away with. Even if DVLA/DVSA aren't too interested, insurers would surely be?
For me, DIY seats and seat belts are just a step too far and not something I would consider attempting. That said I think there are question marks over the seats installed on some 'professional' conversions too.
Cheers!
Looks like biggest I can go is 1000 * 550 then.
Welcome to the club! I look forward to seeing your thread. I see you’ve gone for a fancy colour 🙂
How can you tell when it’s a black & white photo 😂😀
@dmorts I'm insured with a company called Greenlight and they specialise in modified vehicles. It's pretty cheap £300 a year and I just have to send them a photo and text of everything I modify. They've been brilliant - especially useful since the rules changed for what constitutes a 'Motor Caravan'.
I know what you mean about the stringent tests, but obviously the rules change if I was a trader or professional converter. In fact I think the rules change if I were to rent the vehicle out - although I'd be more worried about most of the gas installs I see on the web compared to a passenger seat.
To be honest, I'm glad there are things you're allowed to do without health & safety being all over it. Some of the recent house building regs are just silly - designed to stop cowboys (fair enough), but also stopping creativity and in some cases going against common sense. Basically putting hard rules in place of a good common sense inspection.
When I see people sticking on large solar panels with only glue to a van with flaky paint, I do shudder though. Mainly because it endangers others rather than just the occupants.
It raises an interesting point, motorcycle helmets are mandatory (helmets are only going to protect the individual wearer), but any seat/seat belt is fine as long as it's bolted in and looks ok (the seat belts are going to be used by people other than the installer).
So you end up with a system that only cares about an individual's safety in certain circumstances. This means that people may wrongly assume that the law always equates to what's safest for the individual, which just isn't true*.
There is a counter argument, that if you mandate too much then people will ignore it all together, so best to have something attainable by most. But following that means you end up with something that protects a majority, rather than potentially all.
You mentioned differences if you were a pro-converter or renting it out, but I assume you can sell it with those seat belts fitted?
* EDIT: Thought of an example. We were round at our neighbours, who are both doctors, and were expecting. They said they'd been looking at the law regarding child car seats as a guide as to what they should purchase. However, the law mandates a minimum and doesn't equate to what would be safest. The law allows a child to face forward once they reach 9kg. However, this is actually advised against and the child should face rearwards for as long as possible. Government backed safety schemes advise this as well as the medical profession. A bit like smoking being legal but advised against.
two point on that seat - is the back really just held in place by some 2 x 1 inch timber ?
Maybe i am not seeing due to the ply lining it but there looks to be no top side punch through protection under typical front end impact rotational loading where the feet meet the body work.
Neither would take much work to sort but both would significantly improve the safety aspect of those seats - the engineering principle of how they turn into beds is pimpy 😀
@dmorts Yes, private sale is fine. I think it must be assumed that the buyer has to inspect and make sure they are happy with any fittings - not always easy to check - for example are the overhead lockers attached to wood or metal, or just the cladding, etc, etc.
Even if I decided to rent or convert a few vans, it only needs a class IVa check which can be done at any MOT station.
They look for the correct spreader plates and attachment points.
For gas - you need an annual gas safety certificates.
Other things are a bit more vague - I haven't heard of anything to do with electricals for instance which seems a bit daft.
In fact, if it was just a 2-berth, and I was renting out a van, I reckon I'd avoid gas altogether and put a diesel cooker in there.
@trail_rat
No - those upper parts of the kitchen and bed have metal reinforcements. But mainly, the back is lightweight to prevent the forces squashing the passenger in the case of front impact.
I'll get a pic sometime (unfortunately, due to neighbours, the van doesn't live very close to me most of the time 🙁 )
The seats have 570mm lengths of 40mm x 25mm x 4mm angle iron between the legs at the point where it sits on the van floor, so the surface area exceeds the spreader-plate specs by about double.
– Also in 30-degree heat the Air Con was a bit pants – just not enough for an open bulkhead maybe. Not sure. It was fine when I bought the van with the bulkhead in.
I've pretty much resigned myself to going for a van without aircon and fitting a caravan aircon unit to the roof instead. Just an auto box left on the wishlist now...
Just an auto box left on the wishlist now
It'll be interesting to see if you can find one.
I didn't see a single L4H2 one for sale in the year I had a saved ebay search going.
It's a shame Europe still seems so fixated on manual gearboxes - in Asia, they are reserved for pure sports cars. Loved my auto Hiace and Bongo.
Good luck!
How we doing? Feel like a Friday update?? 🙂
Sorry for not reading all 5 pages, I'll get back to that.
Have you considered an awning, or side tent ?, to expand the space for sitting. Placing the cooking opening onto that makes it possible to cook,eat and sit and use the camper for sleeping, toilet etc.
Okeydokey.
New ceiling arrived and had planned on putting in spot lights so ran the cabling ahead of fitting units etc but new units have 2 overhead units (built but not fitted yet) with lights so Mrs decided that will be enough as well as a reading light on one side. Makes it easier to fit ceiling but need to cover it first so finish next weekend. This weekend offer up the units to get the holes lined up and finish electrics. Bed fitted and front seats retrimmed on Wednesday...
@dyna-ti - so far, a side tent just doesn't fit with our camping style. We've spent years on campsites with our lovely tentipi, but in the end got tired of not wanting to move on because of the hassle of unpitching/repitching. It's amazing to just be able to drive on to another location after about 20mins of packing in the van.
Awning-wise. it might be handy for mega-hot sun, or when returning from a bike ride in the rain and wanting to strip/let the bikes dry, but I can't stomach the prices of the cassette-type ones.
So far (23 nights in it) we haven't needed one enough to warrant the cost. I keep thinking about just getting a traditional awning rail and tarp for peanuts and doing it that way, but then you've got to able to pack it away wet. We normally spend our days away from the van and then happy to crash straight into the van - the living area is so nice that we just tend to sit around the table eating and playing board games.
Still deciding to be honest.
Small update - Step
Completed most of the step. As mentioned before - I'd do it differently if I were to do another. I'll write that at the end.
I think it looked like this in the last mention:
Then I made a 15mm birch top for it that was used on our first trip visible in this pic:
I'd already sikaflexed a baton along the back to support the top.
So I took that back our and jigsawed out where the hatches are to go
Then made some hatches. I wasn't clever or neat enough to make them all out of the same piece (no knock-in edge trim here).
Used these 'easy-fit' hinges from Wickes: https://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Easy-Mount-Cupboard-Door-Hinge---104mm-Pack-of-4/p/159738
and did a test-fit and a sand and another fit:
The slots for the rear seats to slide into (when in bed mode) are CNCd in and then sanded a little to drop at the front edge. Work really well.
I don't really like using 15mm birch ply in the van as it's pretty heavy and a bit overkill. I know we're going to have a lot of kit, so anything I can do to save weight is being done.
So I put the hatches and the rest of the top on the CNC to trim out some of the back.
Then lined the bare metal with insulation
And polyeurathaned it. I wish I'd just used osmo matt to match the rest of the van, but my thinking was that this would be more durable in a heavy-use area. Truth is - it marks just as easily and as a little yellower than I like. Ah well.
Then I started on the front vertical
I kerf-cut 4mm ply in the same way I had the ceiling using the track saw.
Used all the clamps
And it came out good!
(now polyeurathaned to match the top - not pictured)
Eventually, I'm going to try and get hold of some 2mm pvc sheet and line it with that so it's easy to clean. No local suppliers unfortunately.
So - what would I do differently
Hatches just aren't as useful as we thought - jamming shoes in is a bit of a pain - they aren't very reachable from the back seats, etc. They're fine and it's still where we put shoes and I don't think I'll change them, but I think I could have done something much simpler which would have been more useful.
So I would probably make a slightly wider (front of van to back of van) and quite a bit higher (so feet sit on it more easily from the front swivels) horizontal platform on top of the floor. It would be supported by a few vertical sheets and you would just be able to shove stuff under it (a bit like the overhead storage). Much easier to shove shoes under, water bottles, etc. Maybe put a lip at the entrance to stop things rolling out.
Ah well 🙂
Garage update
Before our first holiday with bikes, I needed to come up with a way to strap down/in the bikes.
After some headscratching - I came up with this configuration:
Really really happy with this. Strapping down from the centre to the outside corners is perfect. Amazingly bikes seem to fit together quite tidily this way too - both bikes facing the same direction.
We've had two different sets of bikes in here (including a CX bike) and it seems all good.
There does seem to be a limit on bike size though. My son's XL 29er only just fits down below (and wont fit up top) with 800mm bars. Any bigger and the rear wheel would have to come out.
The wheels are a little awkward - often needing 2 straps per wheel - I definitely need to optimize this. First thought was to mount the wheels to axels on the insude of the back doors, but initial measurements seem to suggest that 29er fat-tyred wheels don't quite fit (one door is larger than the other, but it's still marginal).
Takes about 7 mins to unpack and about 15 to get it all in - bikes are easy - it's those damn wheels
It's not the protecting from the other bikes that's the problem, it's how to secure them with fewer straps, or less awkward straps.
Another idea is to have wheel hooks at the top of each compartment, so only one bottom strap needed per wheel, but I'm worried they'll get in the way of loading the bikes. hmmmmmm. All suggestions welcome.
Anyway - here's 4 bikes, a scooter and a municycle all neatly packed and ready for a week taking my boys around the scottish trail centres (they've never been before).
And here it is without the scooter and muni for a quick weekend to Dalby Forest and Leeds Urban Bike Park.
