[Closed] WTF is wrong with people?!?!?

but surely [re tests] every 10-15years wouldn't be a problem. The cost would surely be .......

..... a lost election for whichever government proposed it.

nealglover - Member

but surely [re tests] every 10-15years wouldn't be a problem. The cost would surely be .......

..... a lost election for whichever government proposed it.

Autonomous cars will be commonplace before mandatory retests and when they are commonplace it'll be easy to pass a law that insists on higher standards of driving for those dangerous self driving Luddites.

@aracer - I've done that in Wales with a driver failing to reverse with a caravan in tow. After about ten minutes watching him tie the vehicle in knots I'd had enough, got out and wandered over and told him I'd do it! Took about 30 seconds.

Does help having grown up on a farm where reversing tractor and trailer is a common occurrence.

To much tech in cars people are paying the tech more attention than the driving.

There is no s on the end of Tesco.

...unless there is more than one Tesco.

but surely [re tests] every 10-15years wouldn't be a problem. The cost would surely be .......

..... a lost election for whichever government proposed it.

depends on the spin you put on it maybe?

Since [i]everyone [/i]thinks they're a good driver already (so won't have any trouble re-passing 😉 ),if you framed it as a hardline improving road safety for drivers* and children to stop the many road deaths each year, with a hard hitting campaign and highlighting of the number or people KSI'd on the roads you might just get some traction. get people worked up- enough about the deaths and injuries, and frame it as going after the 'bad ones' and it might work, as nobody thinks they're one of the bad ones.

Then again that might jsut be wishful thinking...

*important to get the buy in 😉

"Now we see who's remembered how to reverse a car" I said to one of the ferry staff as the first car narrowly avoided the barrier.

I only got around to taking my test in my early 30's, it then took me a year before I needed to parallel park again. Thankfully i was fine doing it, but i will admit reversing is not my strongest driving ability

Assuming the OP question is rhetorical, but the bottom line IMO is that (increasingly) people are becoming less aware of each other as fellow 'souls', and likewise less aware of own behaviour and its effect on others/the environment. The only real increase in our awareness is that awareness of our 'selfies'. Our 'image' in the modern sense, entirely unrelated to our 'image (ie our behaviour) inthe archaic sense.

This in part is due not only to population explosion and city-living, but increasingly to the social media explosion where people are increasingly big-mouthed, intolerant, and bigoted, and ironically ('social' media!) are now both less empathic and less realistically 'connected' with each other . We are living in bubbles, yet increasingly 'connected' to imagined 'groups' via little more than shared pursuits or identity-politics, the latter having exploded online in the last decade.

This is a major social/community paradigm-shift for humanity. The 'hostile-bubble' way in which we relate and interact is carried from the smartphone/tablet bubble into the car-bubble?

*edit - ^This, and 'the car' has become fused with 'self'. Car everything.

just some thoughts.

It's half term isn't it? The roads are always worse when the kids are off school. More traffic, drivers who aren't used to making long journeys, etc.

(And the services clogged with pensioners who have never seen a Cotton Traders shop before.)

Malvern Rider - Member

Assuming the OP question is rhetorical, but the bottom line IMO is that (increasingly) people are becoming less aware of each other as fellow 'souls', and likewise less aware of own behaviour and its effect on others/the environment. The only real increase in our awareness in that awareness of our 'selfies'. Our 'image'.

This in part is due not only to population explosion and city-living, but increasingly to the social media explosion where people are increasingly big-mouthed, intolerant, and bigoted, and ironically ('social' media!) are now both less empathic and less 'connected' with each other . We are living in a bubble.

This is a major social/community paradigm-shift for humanity. The 'hostile-bubble' way in which we relate and interact is carried from the smartphone/tablet bubble into the car-bubble?

I agree, however road rage has been a thing, long before social media. I've often mused to myself (especially while cycling on the road) that some people adopt an alternative persona behind the wheel of the car. In the car they are big and strong and they are above people on the hierarchy of road users (pedestrians at the bottom, then cyclists and so on). The social media bubble of self absorbtion and distraction compounds it.

I don't want to go full Godwins law, but you give people a little bit of power and a rule structure and ordinairy people can become horrible.

In the car they are big and strong and they are above people on the hierarchy of road users (pedestrians at the bottom, then cyclists and so on)

This, although many (in the UK, US, Aus etc) increasingly see cyclists at the 'bottom', as pedestrians are still car-drivers 99.9% of local journeys, schools included.

Malvern Rider - Member

In the car they are big and strong and they are above people on the hierarchy of road users (pedestrians at the bottom, then cyclists and so on)

This, although many (in the UK, US, Aus etc) increasingly see cyclists at the 'bottom', as pedestrians are still car-drivers 99.9% of local journeys, schools included.

I was actually going to write "cyclists at the bottom" because that's the impression I get - you rarely hear drivers complaining about those bloody pedestrians.

I guess it's because pedestrians and animals are completely different. They aren't vehicles so they aren't part of that hierarchy - a bike on the other hand is a vehicle, like a car or a lorry, only much cheaper, much slower, much weaker etc

There is no s on the end of Tesco.

...unless there is more than one Tesco.

But is there more than one Tesco in Knaresborough?

These are the people concerned a cyclist needs to have a license and insurance, for safety, and are who you encountered this morning

Initially I laughed out loud at this, but it's a bloody good point.

It's like when I see someone buying The Express, Sun or Mail. I think 'you're allowed to vote!' which scares me no end.

An interesting factor I've noticed is that the more 'entitled' the car-user seems to feel, and the more 'aggressive/unaware of road-rules/taxes/rights they are - then the more often they will maintain the view that the 'average cyclist' is 'aggressive/lawless/inconsiderate/feel that 'they' own the road and that 'rules don't apply to cyclists'. Bla bla rant rage'

I find this (projection?) frustrating (and dangerous) to the nth degree. This type of person also seems unaware of the fact that most cyclists (at least in the UK) are also car-drivers.

I have no real idea what it's like to make regulat cycle journeys in a city in recent years, but even in local towns and the open road I'm finding it increasingly perilous, to the point when the worst of my nature (when forced off the road) is heard to say 'they (the dicks) are winning'! .. and take my bike and me to the backroads. Never wanted to be that 'one less cyclist' on the roads in any way, bu it seems it's catching me up.

[quote=whitestone ]@aracer - I've done that in Wales with a driver failing to reverse with a caravan in tow. After about ten minutes watching him tie the vehicle in knots I'd had enough, got out and wandered over and told him I'd do it! Took about 30 seconds.

Have just remembered the recent anecdote I have about this. Driving to a climbing crag in South Wales down a really, really narrow road, with a hillside on the left and a sheer drop on the right - the tarmac was barely wider than the car, and I was glad somebody else was driving their little car rather than me driving my Mondeo. Passing places few and far between. Met a car coming the other way - I was going to suggest we should probably reverse, but both front doors open on the other car, the driver and passenger swap places before the person who had been the passenger reversed back to the passing place!

But is there more than one Tesco in Knaresborough?

If there is I wonder if it has a petrol station?

The most annoying thing about all of this is, going from the musings above, we can all see the problems and reasons.
My OP didn't mention cyclists, so all these ideas have come from the motorists amongst us. If that is the case, why can't [i]other[/i] motorists see this?!

And @ neal, no it wouldn't be popular for and election campaign but why not just do it after getting into power. I always thought part of the governments job was to safe guard the population in cases like this.

But is there more than one Tesco in Knaresborough?

*drives around Knaresborough to check, avoiding 'main' roads.*

I can only find an express one but there's a Sainsburys next to the bus station. HTH. 😀

[quote=crazyjenkins01 ]The most annoying thing about all of this is, going from the musings above, we can all see the problems and reasons.
My OP didn't mention cyclists, so all these ideas have come from the motorists amongst us. If that is the case, why can't other motorists see this?!

Because they're knobs. Though more fundamentally you're missing the other subsetting going on - the people commenting on here aren't just drivers, they're drivers who think about their driving.

If that is the case, why can't other motorists see this?!

Because many people are dicks*. Most people drive, this means that most dicks also drive. Outside of social media and online gaming, the roads are where most of the action is. Dick-activity (dicktivity!) on the roads is therefore guaranteed, not to mention highly visible.

*First rule of being a dick = 'F*** awareness, it's always the other guy, and I never, ever back down'.

Have we done foglights yet? Foglights.

Malvern Rider - Member

An interesting factor I've noticed is that the more 'entitled' the car-user seems to feel, and the more 'aggressive/unaware of road-rules/taxes/rights they are - then the more often they will maintain the view that the 'average cyclist' is 'aggressive/lawless/inconsiderate/feel that 'they' own the road and that 'rules don't apply to cyclists'. Bla bla rant rage'

We're really into amateur psychology here (at least I know I am) but I think the rules: tax/insurance/red lights etc, all of the moans that aggro drivers trot out is merely a justification for the subconscious feeling that they shouldn't be held up by inferior road users.

Overtook a guy this morning who had a series or TV playing on his dash-mounted phone

Sitting behind another car in Glasgow, I wondered why there was someone sitting backwards in-between the front seats. then I realised the driver was Facetiming someone on a full-sized iPad stuck to the middle of his windscreen.

I think most of this can be explained by the statistic that 90% of drivers think they're better than average.

(that might be made up, and probably only applies to male drivers)

I always get tailgated in 30 mph areas but just ignore them.

They find out when I’ve hit my 4 pot brembos lol.

Have we done foglights yet? Foglights.

many (in the UK, US, Aus etc) increasingly see cyclists at the 'bottom', as pedestrians are still car-drivers 99.9% of local journeys, schools included.

*drives around Knaresborough to check, avoiding 'main' roads.*

In a VW T5 with personal plate and bike stickers on it I hope?

A couple of years ago I was driving behind one car in a 40 limit and noticed the car behind me was a bit close. We went round a bend and the car in front had to do an emergency stop as a large branch had fallen from a tree. I stopped behind him and the car behind duly ran into the back of me. On getting out I informed the driver I'd noticed some distance back that they were a bit close. Their response was to deny it, whilst stood next to their car embedded in the back of mine.

I realised the driver was Facetiming someone on a full-sized iPad stuck to the middle of his windscreen

Hands free, what's your issue? 😉

If we're talking foglights I would also like to raise the trend amongst youngsters to "smoke" their lights... THEIR ***ING LIGHTS. The things that allow them to see and others to see them have been made deliberately darker with spray paint or something. FFS we're all doomed.

And people who tint their front side windows. Eejits the lot of them.

Both are illegal iirc.

Certainly not defending poor driving or the selfish twunts who are around these days but I'm sure a big factor is the cost of running a car for young people.
Getting a course of lessons and taking the driving test for a 17th or 18th birthday seems to be quite popular, especially from grandparents or parents intent on releasing the shackles of unpaid taxi service. Subsequently it can be several years before a car and insurance can be afforded and by this time they've forgotten all they've been taught or tested on. When I passed my test, my father then told me to then go out and learn how to drive. These premium reducing boxes that some use only serve to reduce the level of practice that new drivers get.

pistonbroke - Member

Certainly not defending poor driving or the selfish twunts who are around these days but I'm sure a big factor is the cost of running a car for young people.
........by this time they've forgotten all they've been taught or tested on.

Nah, I'm pretty sure you don't forget that it's illegal to look at your phone while driving regardless of the length of time from test. And when I say "looking at your phone" I mean, phone in front of the wheel while driving, as so many (mainly) young women seem to like to do when they slow down from 60 to drive through villages.

*First rule of being a dick = 'F*** awareness, it's always the other guy, and I never, ever back down'.

That's three rules.

HTH

😉

I actually take pride in driving, I'm not saying I'm good but I do try to be better. Most people don't, they just drive, it's just something they have to do. I don't see that there's any incentive for most to do better, the vast majority of accidents don't result in injury or prosecution so why bother?

Not the punchline I was expecting - a book in the glovebox is handy when driving around the Scottish Islands IME. I did once get out of my car and walk up to the car coming the other way to offer to reverse the 10m to the passing place for her.

Because they're knobs. Though more fundamentally you're missing the other subsetting going on - the people commenting on here aren't just drivers, they're drivers who think about their driving

This is what winds me up, if you don't think about your driving habits, you shouldn't be driving. This is where the police and prosecution fail us big time, as yes a jury of peers is [i]good[/i] for deciding guilt but a jury of EXPERTS in the field of *insert crime type* would be [i]best[/i] for deciding.
It then come down to publicising exactly what happened and what sentence was given. People would change damn quick then.

Imagine all the [s]people[/s] revenue, from making it compulsory to re-take your practical driving test every five years.

Now pass me the peace pipe, dammit! 😈

This is where the police and prosecution fail us big time, as yes a jury of peers is good for deciding guilt but a jury of EXPERTS in the field of *insert crime type* would be best for deciding.

And the trouble with a jury of your peers for a motoring offence, is every single one of them is thinking "there but for the grace of dog, go I"

IMO, we should start banning drivers for crashing. ie, if it's your fault and you cause an accident, you get a 6month ban. If it's your fault, and you cause a crash where someone gets hurt, you get a 5 year ban.

pistonbroke - Member

Certainly not defending poor driving or the selfish twunts who are around these days but I'm sure a big factor is the cost of running a car for young people.

Perhaps the huge cost gives people a sense of entitlement. 😕

Fundamentally the "jury of peers" is completely ****ed up for motoring offences. It's like selecting Fagin's gang as the jury for somebody charged with pickpocketing. Though it's actually even worse than that, as juries are specifically instructed to judge standards of driving against their own driving (following case law). Any review of driving laws really needs to remove that subjective judgement.

And the trouble with a jury of your peers for a motoring offence, is every single one of them is thinking "there but for the grace of dog, go I"

GlennQuagmire - Member
Very much this - I get this every day on my commute to work. The village we pass through are also getting cheesed off and have started their own community speed watch which I think is a great idea.

There's a NIMBY area on the edge of town with some posh houses that think their little spot with just a few houses, nothing on the other side for people/kids to be crossing the road, never see anyone in the road, no parked cars or obstructions that can be a risk, obviously deserves a 20mph (currently a 40 into 30). They've been trying for years and managed to get the council to paint speed bumps. There aren't any bumps, just painted on.

Now and again they do the community speed watch. Fair enough as some are still doing a fair speed along there.

Last night I'm going along, I know what my true speed is, which was roughly 30. In the dark, resident with no high-viz just pops out and aims a flashing speed gun thing at me.

I assume I'll get a grumpy letter from them or the cops now for doing 30.5. Or they may claim more as their stuff is likely not calibrated. I've heard you can be put on a watch with the cops too so get pulled over for the slightest thing.

Fair enough their campaign, but I live on a far busier main road which is also a 30 but a lot of heavy traffic, local Fast and Furious kids racing up and down. We'd try to do likewise but the police and council have no interest as we're not posh houses, don't have a local councillor or someone influential living on the road, and the road is a trunk road so it's important to not put speed controls on it else it will cause chaos (more than usual).

Ignorant ****s...
New neighbours moving in next door but 1.
Fair enough.
Removals truck shows up before 1, sits there till almost 3 before they open the doors (guessing waiting for "official" handover) and still there now.
Wouldn't mind but at no point did they think about knocking the door to say "Hi - we're moving in and will be a while, do you need to get out, etc..."
Would've taken 30s and both mine and next doors car could've been moved before they started.
But nope - asked how much longer and bloke says "can you not get out of there then?
Err... no or I wouldn't have sodding well asked you would I......
Took suggesting that if I can't get out for 5:30 then I'll be moving their truck for them so I can, for them to surprisingly finish emptying the truck in a matter of minutes and leave in the last couple of minutes.
Mucking Fuppets!