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This really gets on my tits. FWICS it was invented by two Teutoturks in BioNtech in Germany. I presume Pfizer are providing the dumm muscle, so why are they getting so much credit?
Is it because they have a catchy name, better PR, or just cos they is yanks?
Can someone enlighten me?
Because it was funded by Pfizer?
Because Pfizer is easier to say than BioNTech.
Will the vaccine cure weird over reactions to stuff?
Because Pfizer help fund it, produce it and licensed it.
fund it, produce it and licensed it.
Ok, so my question remains. Why is it not being credited to the people that actually invented it?
To lure Boris into buying 40 million cans of Tizer.
Love that. 😁
/ Goes off to buy shares in AGBarr
Ok, so my question remains. Why is it not being credited to the people that actually invented it?
im sure they have been suitably rewarded.
it would be still an idea if Pfizer weren’t backing it.
To lure Boris into buying 40 million cans of Tizer.
🙂
WTF do you GAS?
To lure Boris into buying 40 million cans of Tizer.
Never understood why anyone wanted a (partly) carrot flavoured fizzy drink
BioNtech have a market cap of $25B. I’m sure the two founders (great story behind them btw) have done extremely well and are happy for the Pfizer tie up on their vaccine. Developing a vaccine for a small company is different from having the company infrastructure to make potentially billions of RNA vaccines. Pfizer have this ability.
Ok, so my question remains. Why is it not being credited to the people that actually invented it?
Because that's how this stuff works.
Because pfizer had managed to make a lovely first world vaccine that due to temp storage needs, cost and complexity of dosing it will only be for white first world countries that can pay the above cost price for it.
can you tell I think they are a bunch of money grabbing c****
Az and others are making theirs at cost.
~$5 dollars a shotfor az vs $20 for the money grubbers.
Ok, so my question remains. Why is it not being credited to the people that actually invented it?
Oddly enough, most references to the vaccine I’ve read mention both companies, but maybe I read a more diverse range of news reports than the Daily Mail and the Express.
Purely speculatively and playing devil's advocate because I've actually no idea,
Typically 'Big Pharma' will research a new drug and then charge an astronomical amount of money for it until it comes off licence in order to [monopolise the market and bleed people dry | see a return on investment for their research]. Perhaps in the face of a global pandemic, a bit of marketing spin may be more valuable to a company than raw dollars? Moar advertising = cheaper end product? "Pfizer saved the world!"
When it fails to provide the lasting protection, THEN it will be the BioNtech vaccine. A bit like that Scotsman who was quite good at Tennis. Seriously, Big pharma has the engine and capitial to develop medicines, but the dirty secret is that a LOT of them are licensed from small biotechs. I spend a large amount of my day job time evaluating these "opportunities". You get good at spotting decent companies very quickly. BioNtech look pretty solid. Like London restaurants, most biotechs fail, and very very few become unicorns (Incyte for example). Disclaimer - I never looked at Sirtris 😉
... and with my STW head on,
Do they? Who are "they?" The only time I've heard it directly called "the Pfizer vaccine" is on this thread.
Surely it is the Warp Speed vaccine? I'm certain I heard a major statesman describe it as such.
will only be for white first world countries that can pay the above cost price for it.
If I were to guess, I'd say some Middle-eastern countries and some wealthy Asian countries are probably going to jump to the head of that queue.
Ok, so my question remains. Why is it not being credited to the people that actually invented it?
They have been which is why you’ve heard of them. There’s some great articles appeared recently about them.
Never understood why anyone wanted a (partly) carrot flavoured fizzy drink
helps you see in the dark (or when you’re eyes are shut)
Will the vaccine cure weird over reactions to stuff?
Retrospectively? No-one knows, because no-one sure what the exact mechanism is. One concern for a lot of long haulers is what effect the virus might have on them. One theory is that there's residual virus hiding out in the gut and/or other organs, in which case a vaccine might even help, but it's all speculation until research catches up / there are studies of long haulers and vaccine.
Oddly enough, most references to the vaccine I’ve read mention both companies,
this, they are both regularly mentioned and Uğur Şahin is on Andrew Marr right now, seems like a lovely fella too.
Hopefully OP was watching with interest
Retrospectively? No-one knows, because no-one sure what the exact mechanism is. One concern for a lot of long haulers is what effect the virus might ....studies of long haulers and vaccine.
Whoosh 🙂
Because pfizer had managed to make a lovely first world vaccine that due to temp storage needs, cost and complexity of dosing it will only be for white first world countries that can pay the above cost price for it.
can you tell I think they are a bunch of money grabbing c****
You got any evidence to support that conspiracy theory? I can see how rushing a new vaccine using what I understand are new methods may not make it the worldwide panacea we would prefer.
As others have said, not all rich countries are white. We could have waited another 12 months for the cheap globally available option to become available, or we can see what else might be learned from the first one that may help improve that long term solution.
Do they? Who are “they?”
Well, I haven’t read a paper this week… so going by TV and Radio alone… they very much do call it the Pfizer vaccine. Even when the story turned to the couple at the heart of the story, I heard no mention of their company, and came away with the impression that they worked for Pfizer (I could be not listening closely enough I suppose). Their company won’t have a PR machine though…
not seen it as the Pfizer vaccine - only seen it as the BioNtech vaccine with Pfitzer being the partner.
grahamt1980
Full Member
Because pfizer had managed to make a lovely first world vaccine that due to temp storage needs, cost and complexity of dosing it will only be for white first world countries that can pay the above cost price for it.
can you tell I think they are a bunch of money grabbing c****
Az and others are making theirs at cost.
~$5 dollars a shotfor az vs $20 for the money grubbers.
Been watching too much Peston?
In the Guardian:
It also refers to 'vaccine developed with Pfizer', as does a BBC article.
It's very likely lazy journalism, IMO. They can't be arsed to use a few more words, and more people are likely to click into something with Pfizer's name as they are more recognisable.
Because behind every medicine, medical device or vaccine that’s been invented, lies thousands of ordinary people working long hours in (often) stressful jobs who make it happen. Invention is the first essential step but after that there is a whole load of work including development of a formulation, designing and running the clinical trials, interpretation and reporting of the data, and manufacturing it in bulk.
It frustrates me when people imagine that the pharmaceutical industry = a few money-grabbing CEOs who take all the credit, when in fact thousands of scientists and other experts are working behind the scenes to make a vaccine or drug a thing that people can actually take. Those people are frequently pushed really hard in their jobs.
My issue is that pfizer are not selling it at cost. Unlike a number of other big pharma.
it isn't a conspiracy theory and in no way underestimates the level of effort given by any of the companies.
I just think given the scale of this that pfizer could at least show they don't value profit above all.
fww I currently work at one of the big uk pharma and previously worked at the other big one.
I have no issue with profits on drugs and have a very good overview of what is needed to get a medicine to market, but to me now is the time where we all pull together rather than look for the $$$$
My issue is that pfizer are not selling it at cost. Unlike a number of other big pharma.
I guess if you get one of the first ones and it looks like it performs better than the rest, you can charge more for it; which is probably a good thing as it means they can invest more in R&D etc, so have more resources next time round etc.
There are so many vaccines under development, it's not stopping anyone getting vaccinated, just poorer countries won't be first in line (it was ever thus).
Plus, compared to the billions spent on propping up economies (or Trillions in the US), the cost of the vaccine is pretty small....
My issue is that pfizer are not selling it at cost. Unlike a number of other big pharma.
Selling it “at cost” when the whole project would use up huge amounts of (otherwise profitable) staff hours and production facilities, would result in losses overall.
The investors and shareholders may have something to say about that, not something a board of directors could describe as “acting in the shareholders best interests” really.
If that is the case then how are others able to do it?
I don't disagree that shareholders etc will push for profit but these are hardly normal times and the pandemic will impact shareholder return anyway so making a vaccine more widely available cheaper should shorten the impact of the pandemic.
it is short termism really. I guess I just dislike pfizer for their normal profiteering and corporate attitude.
At least gsk and az have a decent level of corporate responsibility
The BBC have responded to OP’s concern and put out the story of BioNTech being behind the vaccine development as their main story 6pm news 🙂
If that is the case then how are others able to do it?
For reasons described, I very much doubt anyone is genuinely doing this at true "cost". The opportunity cost of developing the Covid vaccine ahead of whatever they were previously working on has to be taken into account.
I’d like to add that I wasn’t specifically intending to defend Pfizer, just providing an alternative view to the Evil Pharma one!
Because behind every medicine, medical device or vaccine that’s been invented, lies thousands of ordinary people working long hours in (often) stressful jobs who make it happen. Invention is the first essential step
THIS! Speaking as someone who did the invention bit, it took two companies, thirteen years, thousands of people and hundreds of millions of pounds to take my idea and make it a launched product. I consider it my proudest scientific achievement btw, but without all those others (including formulation and CMC), it would just have remained an idea.
Price for any SASR-COV-2 vaccine will be subject to significant moral constraints, regardless. Also being a functioning market, others will come along to undercut the originator. But how Gilead can sell remdesivir with a straight face... a drug that barely has an effect and which has just been thoroughly trounced by Lilly's antibody.
There won't be a lot of profiteering here.
If the vaccine had failed testing, no one was going to jump in and pay all their costs were they?
If the vaccine had failed testing, no one was going to jump in and pay all their costs were they?
Sorry, we talking about Fizzy or AZ here?
The BBC have responded to OP’s concern and put out the story of BioNTech being behind the vaccine development as their main story 6pm news 🙂
I was going to post much the same, I saw the news, and the emphasis was very much on the husband and wife team behind BioNTech ahead of Phizer.
Still, it seems to be very much the fashion to create and push conspiracy theories these days; I’ve often thought it might be fun to start one myself, just for the shits’n’giggles, but I just can’t be arsed.
You don't ezxpect Trump or Farage (or their stooge in No 10) to refer to the "Turkish Muslim immigrant" vaccine do you ?
Who is the legal manufacturer of the product? (ie who is putting their name to it and risking their business and possible jail if something goes wrong?) I suspect Pfizer?
Which has more credibility in the ears of the general public who will be asked to take it?
I’ve not gone out of my way to research it and was totally aware this was not Pfizer working alone.
This is how all tech companies work...its always a collaborative venture to spread risks, pull in research and experience form a wide variety of different companies and to bring the very many capabilities across alot of different companies that are required to bring any product to market wether its a smart phone, electric car or vaccine.
It is highly likely that Pfizer has a long history with working with this company over many years and many other companies. It is highly likely that Pfizer legally own the research and IP too.
Because pfizer had managed to make a lovely first world vaccine that due to temp storage needs, cost and complexity of dosing it will only be for white first world countries that can pay the above cost price for it.
can you tell I think they are a bunch of money grabbing c****
Az and others are making theirs at cost.
~$5 dollars a shotfor az vs $20 for the money grubbers.
Which means Pfiezer will have enough money to take a gamble and be the first ones to develop a vaccine for the next mutant strain of covid-19 or goat flu.
How long do you think AZ will be able to keep up plowing R&D money into new vaccines that may or may not work for all the Covid variants over the next decade at cost?
You guys seem to be operating under the presumption that all will be fine and we'll get back to normal when the vaccines hit the market in significant quantities, we won't - there will have to be seasonal vaccine development like we have with the flu.
You guys seem to be operating under the presumption that all will be fine and we’ll get back to normal when the vaccines hit the market in significant quantities, we won’t – there will have to be seasonal vaccine development like we have with the flu.
I though it was pretty widely accepted that regular vaccination was the probable outcome. Not sure I’ve really seen much in the way of “just one jab and all back to normal”