Under normal circumstances that I'm likely to encounter, no.
The responses on here have been giving me food for thought. I have friends who vote differently to me and we've never fallen out. But I tend to filter out of my life people who are privileged and don't realise it, or people who have no empathy for those less fortunate.
And yeah, racists and bigots can **** off
Yes my sister in law,......it is just one of the many reasons I do talk to her, an important one though.
If they are privilidged and don't realise it, and its brought to their attention, and they carry on regardless
That's when I cut the toxity out of my life.
We can't control much in life,but that's one area where we can
Solely because of a difference of political opinions? Nope.
Probably not, but some political opinions are directly opposed to my own personal circumstances. Not sure that's particularly good grounds for friendship imo.
If they are privilidged and don't realise it, and its brought to their attention, and they carry on regardless
Woe betide anyone failing to check their own privilege, and ignoring having it checked for them.
Sunt lacremae rerum.
A couple of friends have become acquaintances. To be friends you need to share some core values and demonstrate a little tact. For example if you start slagging off economic migrants and your "friend" is an economic migrant (I am) don't expect the friendship to be quite as close as it previously was. If you consistently insult teachers don't expect your teacher friends to be as friendly.
The are affinities on this forum, friendships even. I know who I'd happily meet up with for a ride and it might not be the people you'd expect. Friends can be good sparing partners, debate is good, but when "friends" express prejudice, hate and selfishness in large doses it doesn't really matter if it's dressed up as political opinion, they become acquaintances.
Oh, i know how comparatively lucky I am, fella.
Edukator +1
A couple of friends have become acquaintances. To be friends you need to share some core values and demonstrate a little tact. For example if you start slagging off economic migrants and your "friend" is an economic migrant (I am) don't expect the friendship to be quite as close as it previously was. If you consistently insult teachers don't expect your teacher friends to be as friendly.
I agree with that.
With my 'nope' I was thinking of my current friends, I suppose those whose political / social opinions I already broadly speaking know.
There are (of course?) some political views / stances whose holders I could / would not be friends with. A simple matter of generally supporting green, conservative or labour? We muddle along!
As per Edukators example, yep, that kind of thing would certainly cool a relationship!
Depends here, of all the people I know very few will, for example, discuss political stuff on Facebook or twitter, maybe half a dozen, all of whom can discuss things properly and like adults, a bit of lighhearted banter etc. but the stuff they post rarely pricks my conscience as it's plainly reasonable, and when it does it's a perfectly reasonable discussion.
On the other hand, there are one or two of the 'like and share' persona, and they do so *constantly* - several times a day - and in my experience they are the only people I've seen who really get upset when anyone calls something they have posted out as bollocks, and the only ones who flounce when they start losing the argument.
On a personal/work basis, never any problems, lighthearted banter again and some real positive and interesting discussions over the years, in fact very often it's the first time some of them have encountered someone with actual experience of 'the other side' (animal research for example) and it ends up really positive. Only once or twice has it got stroppy/heated, both times over animal rights.
I've been volunteering with a charity for the past year, and there's only one or two 'righties' amongst a sea of lefties, and it's been remarkable to see how all pervading the 'social bubble' aspect is.
The sort of opposite of this would be 'I could be friends with anyone who was of the same political persuasion'.
Which probably doesn't hold true for many. Therefore, proof by contradiction that you can be friends with political mismatches ?
all of whom can discuss things properly and like adults, a bit of lighhearted banter etc. but the stuff they post rarely pricks my conscience as it's plainly reasonable
Corbyn's a cock! (so is May, Trump, Clinton, Farage.....& most other MP's.
Can I be your friend?
See, that's reasonable
hysterical nonsense claiming that, for example, Trump wants to exterminate gay people. Or that Corbyn is the new Stalin, is the type of thing that Would prick me to 'encourage the poster to get a sense of proportion'
Generally no - politicians don't deserve that much credit.
Exceptions would be extreme views verging on hatred which would make me question whether I would want to spend time with someone.
But Brexshit certainly made my think about people differently and not in a good way, which is a great shame. I wish that this was not the case.
No, religion, yes.
I can separate racists, sexists and other bad traits without politics being involved, if you think being left or right clearly marks you as a racists or whatever then you are very wrong, some traits cross political divides. I have friends who are inherently right wing but view trident as immoral and left leaning friends who worry about immigration, its a recent phenomenon where people seem to want to label people instead of debate, something we saw in huge evidence recently with Brexit and regrettably here a lot.
However, with politics there is at lest some core beliefs based on real things, such as living conditions, the belief that it benefits other through act or facilitation, local government etc, with religion its pure hokum.
esselgruntfuttock - MemberFWIW, my long term riding pal who I've been riding with for 25 years is probably a tory, he's well off, has a house worth about 400k with no mortgage & 4 renty houses.
I have absolutely no idea how or who he votes for. politics have never ever come into conversation in 25 years of riding together.
That may be odd, but It's good.
Don't (possibly) make the mistake of equating wealth with a certain political point of view. I went on a walking holiday with a union member and Labour voter, who was under the impression that some of the other people were Conservative voters, with them having homes costing upwards of 400k, and nice cars and having had jobs earning more than 50k a year (those who were enjoying having retired), and they were liberal and Labour voters - being baby boomers who'd just happened to strike it lucky in life. Until people say - one never knows who they vote for.
I like lively political debate. I flew to Brazil over the Brexit vote (flew out on the day of vote, glee home after result known) and my fellow pilot was a fervent leaver, but with cogent reasoned arguments. We debated very strongly, but still had a beer after the flight, and spent the whole flight home trying to work out how the country would progress.
I respect anybody's political views, but may not like their personal values that form them.
Over "opinion", probably not. Over behaviour, actions and comments arising from such opinion, certainly.
I know what you mean about personal values, a long term family friend is a Conservative voter, and her reason/value is her belief that since she has managed to pull herself up by her own bootstraps, then everybody else can too if they really try. She's a good hearted person and very kind, and helps out anybody if she can, and just has a core belief that everybody would be alright if they really tried to be. I'm a greeny/liberal type, but I get why she votes how she does even if I think her reason why is misplaced, which means I still like her.
Until people say - one never knows who they vote for.
Even when they say one never knows. My MIL declared one day she'd been lying to my FIL about how she'd voted since they met. They'd been cancelling our each others vote for over half a lifetime. 😀
just has a core belief that everybody would be alright if they really tried to be.
Yeah. You see, a belief like that would get right on my tits. Because it is manifestly and objectively not true. And suggests either naivety, an unwillingness to see the world as it is, or a lack of empathy.
She's a good hearted person and very kind
Hmmm... 😉
No, but someone I've known for years hasn't spoken to me since I pointed out that immigration is good for the country and you don't get many immigrants in Cumbria (he thought Cumbria was overrun with immigrants - Lancastrians maybe?).
Brexies seem a bit thin skinned to be honest.
She is good heart & very kind, hebdencyclist - she volunteers for Samaritans. 🙂
Had problems, well other people have had problems with me not having a problem associating with people with views different to theirs and mine.
People strive for simplification and binary certainty to get things done. It's encouraged and successful in law and the work place amongst others, proof enough for many of a blanket sometimes small minded approach to things.
I don't have a problem with different views until the inevitable amateur indoctrination begins! Although it's not exactly difficult to spot no matter how underhand and manipulative the ****bag is 😆
Yes.
I can't think of a recent political event that would cause this. During Indyref, the GE, HE and Brexit I obviously had friends on the "opposing" sides. We're still friends. I also have friends in many religions and in none.
However, there are limits and the hypothetical question should explore these. Would anyone on here really stay friendly with someone if they'd been behaving like some of the folk in the recent American Alt-Right video?
"and my fellow pilot was a fervent leaver, but with cogent reasoned arguments. We debated very strongly, but still had a beer after the flight"
Yes, but if you'd called him a racist and a idiot he might not have been so keen to have a beer with you...
No.
To be friends with someone (and not an acquaintance), they'll have shown their lack of ignorance, bigotry and other general nastiness. I studied PPE at Uni so many of my friends from that era are obviously interested in politics, have different ideas to mine yet we have intelligent, interesting and often mature conversations. Any political ideas from mid-right to mid-left have their merits and flaws and can be argued for or against. I think it's what makes it such a fascinating subject and anyone who can justify their ideas (either to themselves or when questioned) is fine by me. I [i]just[/i] voted remain. Two people I knew couldn't get their head around my wavering and were arseholes. We are still friends. I judged them on their lack of intellect as opposed to their political opinion.
Religion (as a few people have mentioned it) makes me feel more facepalmy as it's clearly nonsense and has done a tremendous amount of harm.
(didn't The Specials do a song about this ?)
Anyways, I would hope not. I think you should be open to other people's views or you aren't thinking very hard yourself. It is healthy to have a wide circle of friends, and mine are all pretty good, but I don't actively seek people like myself, or surround myself with sycophants. Some of my friendships were tested during the Scottish referendum, but survived and are probably stronger.
However, as others have said, there is a bit of a line, and racist BS is it for me.
Family - sadly different story. I was in the Chinese takeaway the other day and got treated to a speech about how the Chinese are great and welcome and lovely people to have in a country "not like those ISIS people" ? (you know, the ones under the beds).
no, unless it betrayed other issues like racism, or weapons grade ignorance (without a will to inform themselves). But then those things don't just suddenly become apparent in friends.
I think it's tragic how we've seemingly lost the ability to engage in healthy debate and political discourse without hatred, which is being reflected in Westminster. I genuinely fear where that may lead us.
Perhaps we're seeing hyper confirmation bias in an information age, add in fear, and you have deeply entrenched often extreme views, and an extreme sense of entitlement to be heard and to be right.
Yes
If someone is not willing to debate, and is dogmatic in their views and any view contrary to theirs is <insert any derogatory word here>, then why bother.
Happened to me with a very left wing friend a long time ago. She was on about salary levels and how someone should set caps on everyone. I asked who should, and how do they decide. The crap that came out of her mouth was amazing, personal attacks etc, so I just turned and walked away.
What if your gay, black friend voted out? Would you still have to like them so you didn't come across as homophobic or racist?
Good thread this, one so far that hasn't gone off on a Political in/out/shake it all about path.
My oldest friend is an entrepeneur holiday-let landlord who likes to think of himself as a socialist. We discuss it occasionally. He's still my friend.
My old bass player, on the other hand, has turned into a fat whining white supremacist NRA gun nut. I've no intention of talking to him again.
Although, he does live in North Carolina so fortunately I probably won't have to...
"I think it's tragic how we've seemingly lost the ability to engage in healthy debate and political discourse without hatred, which is being reflected in Westminster."
This. People willing to debate based on fact and reason seem on the decline. Name calling can close down a debate, but it can't win it. If you close down a debate, stuff gets missed.
I am a lefty, due to my work most of my colleagues (some of them friends) are pretty much the opposite.
We can debate political topics and no harm is ever done.
If one of my friends turned out to be a neo-nazi (and I somehow wasn't aware of it) I would no longer talk to them as don't want friends like that. In the same way I wouldn't try to find friends by going to a neo-nazi rally.
It depends.
Some of my friends have different political views to me, but we're able to discuss politics in a mature and sensible fashion without any histrionics.
However, social media has proved to be divisive for me. An old schoolfriend started posting Britain First related drivel and a couple of others have been sharing stuff that's blatantly prejudiced. I guess that's the line in the sand for me. I don't have much time for people who loudly proclaim an allegiance to a political party but who are unable to articulate exactly why, or describe any policies which they support/oppose.
I've often found that my acquaintances' newspaper of choice is an effective barometer of their capacity for reason.
I'd tend not to be friends with the sort of person that would have a radically different political opinion to me. I am friends with a couple of Conservative voters, but not many and not great friends. Similarly I'm not friends with any brexit voters.
Unfortunately a lot of my mum's family are the stereotype brexit voters- racist, selfish, ignorant. They are all happy to argue for hours with my immigrant wife about how all immigrants are awful. There's not much I can do about them, they're family so I'm stuck with them, but it'll be our first Christmas in the UK without them this year. We've avoided hanging around with them too- while they weren't the most morally upstanding people for a person with an immigrant fora spouse to hang around with before the referendum it has given them the green light to air their views as they see fit. And I'd rather not listen to them to be honest.
Well I expect most people have friends and family with differing views. Democracy only works because of that, with occasional swapping back and forth between governing parties.
I won't lose freinds over that.
Being a member of BNP, Britain First, or EDL, and calling me a traitor and being non-patriotic for not realigning my opinions to back the views of the majority is a different matter.
Friend count went down by 2 in late June of this year (although neither were what I call close friends).
Forcing opinions on people is the job of Mugabe, Kim Jong Un, et al. not friends.
Yes I still have freinds that voted the opposite way to me. No I don't have any Britain First friends (any more).
Clearly this thread is really about Brexit, so here's my anecdote:
A very old friend of mine, who I've known for nearly two decades and was my wife's chief bridesmaid, voted "leave" in the full knowledge that this was a vote to effectively cripple my business (it's complicated, but basically if we leave the EEA then at least three quarters of our work will dry up pretty much overnight - obviously it's not happened yet, although we have taken a few kicks in the teeth already). My wife is too ill to work, I'm the sole earner, so she effectively voted to royally **** two of her oldest friends over. Several others of our group are likely to be very negatively affected by Brexit too, it's not just us. She can't even give a coherent reason why she voted that way, she just 'felt it was right' or something, and was very upset when most of her mates were shocked and angry with her.
I've had misgivings about some of her personal and political views for a few years now, but this confirmed to me that she's actually changed a lot since we met, and our view diverge so much that I can't understand her anymore. I would have still counted her as a good friend not that long ago, but I can say that's definitely not the case anymore. It's not [i]just[/i] the referendum vote informing this, but it was the final factor that flipped my opinion of her. My wife still considers her a friend, I think, so in the interests of harmony I won't cause any bother, but if I'm civil to her that's the most I can manage I'm afraid.
My mother-in-law also voted leave, but then she's got incipient dementia so that's more understandable...
A friend of mine was very pro Brexit - fine, but I disagree.
He was very anti-immigration - ok, I'm not for completely unlimited immigration.
Then he started justifying this by banging on about Racial IQ.
Haven't spoken to him since.
If I had any friends to talk to, I probably would, yes.
No, not for differing political views. I quite like discussing different political ideas with friends.
I'd draw the line at extremist views eg racists etc. Funnily enough i have a good few friends on both sides if the brexit argument. Which according to many on STW automatically makes the leave friends raging racist, uneducated Nazis. Which I can assure you they ain't!
As far as I'm concerned were all entitled to our own views. Often interesting to hear the background to their leanings. Esp when most of your associates are all of a certain demographic/wealth level etc.
Not [i]for[/i] having different political views, but if they turned out to be bigots or idiots I wouldn't want much more to do with them, and that might be reflected in their political beliefs.
