a fit healthy guy i work with had it recently (vaccine)and it destoyed him for a week.headache,night sweats etc etc...but he wasnt bad enough to take the time off work as he technically wasnt ill...
So...?
Edit: to expand, I certainly wouldn't let that blokes experience put me off. And technically he [u]was[/u] ill, as he was suffering from a virus, albeit a de-activated one.
had it about 3 weeks ago and had the winter flu jab at the same time
apart from a bit of a sore arm for 24 hours i was fine no problems
Most definitely would.
slight sore arm for me, no other side effects.
Wife had it last week - as above, sore arm for a few days and slight headache for a day but that was it.
Had it 7 weeks ago and had no ill effects, arm was a lille sore for the night but nout more 🙂
I had both, one day apart and the regular flu jab hurt more.. sore shoulder .. than the H1N1 jab.
I had the swiners a couple weeks back. Felt like shit, but is wasn't that bad. It is only worth taking if you have any underlying health issues or are partiularly young or old. And even then it only reduced the duration of the symptoms, it does NOT make you better!
Waste of time for most people really
And even then it only reduced the duration of the symptoms, it does NOT make you better!Waste of time for most people really
Surely the point of the vaccine is to immunise you, so you don't catch swine flu at all?
Are you thinking of Tamiflu, which is being used to treat suspected swine flu?
I wouldn't bother. I had swine flu and it wasn't that bad.
Knocked me on my arse for a couple of days then another couple feeling sketchy. Done.
I suggest your colleague already had a bug and his illness was coincidental rather than as a result of the jab. This happens a lot at this time of year.
I had both seasonal and swine flu jabs together about 4 weeks ago, and other than feeling a bit "virally" for about 24 hours and a sore arm I had no side effects at all.
Crustygoods you must be thinking of Tamiflu.
On thursday I revieved a letter (dated 26th November!) telling me I could get one on Saturday morning and an open surgery at my doctors.
I had a ride planned for the following day, so I didn't bother going.
My bad, I was thinking about the Tamiflu.
The swine flu itself although bad, did not kill me, so I wouldn't take the jab.
as a relatively healthy individual i'd rather just have the swine flu, in fact may have already.
The swine flu itself although bad, did not kill me, so I wouldn't take the jab.
Interesting logic. Would you have taken the jab if the swine flu had killed you?
No way! 1) I've never had flu of any kind 2) the vaccine is too recent to have been adequately tested
Given the recent stats that came out showing that it is no more dangerous than seasonal flu, I don't think I would bother. I suspect I had it last week anyway.
[i]Interesting logic. Would you have taken the jab if the swine flu had killed you? [/i]
lol
And why would you take the jab if you've had swine flu?
the vaccine is too recent to have been adequately tested
[rolls arround in tears of laughter]
Please ! stop! your killing me! my sides hurt !
[/rolls arround in tears of laughter]
a) it will have done the same clinical trials as anything else
b) how many hundreds of thousands of doses have been given since?
I've never had flu of any kind
Seeing as you just rubbished lots of scientific research into the vaccine, I hardly think the anecdotlal evidence of you not having had flue is enough to justify no one ever having a vaccine against a strain of it?
a) it will have done the same clinical trials as anything else
has there been time for that ?
b) how many hundreds of thousands of doses have been given since?
and how many have been unreportedly damaged by it and dismissed as some other cause ?
I hardly think the anecdotlal evidence of you not having had flue is enough to justify no one ever having a vaccine against a strain of it?
and I never said that, merely that since I never get ill it would be wasted on me :o)
I had the flu vaccine last Wednesday and then swine flu vaccine on Thursday - was offered it as am asthmatic. Apart from a slightly sore arm, no problems to report 🙂
has there been time for that ?
Yep - it's the same base as the vaccine developed for Bird Flu.
Only change is that the actual virus in it is now swiney H1N1, rather than birdy H5N1. They do a very similar process every year when they produce the seasonal vaccine.
If you are fit and riding your bike often you will not need the jab.
I work for the NHS in the maintainace department at my local hospital so i can have the jab if i wish but dont as i feel if your fairly fit its a waste of time and money its really for the elderly and people who are already ill.
[i]If you are fit and riding your bike often you will not need the jab.[/i]
How do you work that one out?
It's not about protecting you, you dimwits!
It's about stopping it spreading through communities, about stopping it actually getting to those who are really vulnerable.
you might be fine, but having seen what it does to pregnant and post partum women, I had it as soon as I could.
It's not about protecting you, you dimwits!
so although I derive little or no benefit from it, or even harm, I should have it to protect unknown 3rd parties ?
offered? try working in frontline nhs and see how far one can stretch the definition of the word 'offer' if worried enough about an epidemic! 👿
Oh FFS.
I'm reasonably fit (compared to population at large) and ride my bike quite a lot. I'm also asthmatic. I got a bad cold 3 winters ago that became a chest infection which became pneumonia. I couldn't walk upstairs without nearly passing out my lungs were so screwed. I'd love to be offered it if only the local Health Authority's plans weren't so sh*t that I've been excluded and now they've run out.
But the issue isn't just that it might be a severe illness to me and others like me. It's that if you are exposed to it, and catch it, then you might pass it on to several others. Who will pass it on to others, and so it spreads. Until eventually the susceptible individuals get it, with serious consequences.
The point of mass vaccination is to create herd immunity. Otherwise why not just stop once the susceptible ones are done. If you think the only point is to stop yourself suffering a mild form of flu, you've missed the point.
A lad I work with had it (swine flu) a few weeks ago. He's a big lad who does lots of weights & is built like a tank. He was on his arse for a week & lost over a stone in weight, he said he'd have had the jab if he'd known he was gonna be that bad.
No, you're right SFB. As long as you're OK, we'll take our chances.
I LOVE the government rhetoric that says Britain is well-placed to combat/protect its citizens from Swine Flu, but then rolls out an immunisation programme that take weeks and weeks to touch some of the people at highest risk - never mind reaching the categories further down.
Relatives in one province in Canada tell me that the vaccination was extended to the whole population more than a month ago.
What's up with the discrepency, and why do we put up with such poor showing from our government? 😕
[i]so although I derive little or no benefit from it, or even harm, I should have it to protect unknown 3rd parties ?[/i]
Essentially, yes.
It protects all of us, and helps to protect those who are really susceptible to the disease.
Harm? what harm will it do to you? You 'never get ill' right?
[i]offered? try working in frontline nhs and see how far one can stretch the definition of the word 'offer' if worried enough about an epidemic![/i]
I do, I was offered and helped arrange clinics nearer my area for my staff and myself. Then I ended doing interviews the day of the clinic, ironically in a room around the corner from our Occy Health so never got mine.
The point of mass vaccination is to create herd immunity. Otherwise why not just stop once the susceptible ones are done.
indeed, and I happily submitted to a smallpox vaccination (admittedly I was only 8 at the time), but I wonder how big the vulnerable section has to be to justify mass vaccination and the risks it imposes?
what harm will it do to you? You 'never get ill' right?
but neither do I submit to injections, so there might be a connection 🙂 Infection is not the same as poisoning. Mercury anyone ?
and helps to protect those who are really susceptible to the disease.
only "helps" ??
Isn't this similar to the widespread circumscision in the USA which is justified as protecting women, who do not have to undergo the procedure ? I'm willing to be altuistic, but only in the face of clearly established danger and not merely unspecified fashion/hysteria/risk.
No, you're right SFB. As long as you're OK, we'll take our chances.
perhaps if I'm not susceptible I am similarly uninfectious, or do you think I might be Swine Flu Mary ?
Relatives in one province in Canada tell me that the vaccination was extended to the whole population more than a month ago.
and how does the incidence in Canada compare with the UK ?
[i]but I wonder how big the vulnerable section has to be to justify mass vaccination and the risks it imposes? [/i]
Thankfully, at the moment, it appears that swine flu is not going to be as bad as was predicted...
However, viruses can mutate, and the best way to get viruses to mutate 'in the wild' is to let them have lots of baby viruses in a number of different hosts.
Vaccination of susceptible folk is aimed at reducing their chance of getting a very nasty disease. In the rest of us, it's aimed at reducing the spread of the virus, stopping it replicating, and protecting others who may not be as resistant.
The plans to deal with a full scale epidemic make very, very scary reading; I'm a very experienced ITU nurse, but the thought of me supervising either a group of nurses who don't have any ITU experience who are looking after properly sick people, or me looking after paediatric patients is one that fills me with dread...
In the rest of us, it's aimed at reducing the spread of the virus, stopping it replicating, and protecting others who may not be as resistant.
OK, I understand smallpox was eradicated in this way. Could the same be done with flu, all varieties, bearing in mind the vaccination would appear to have to be extended to many forms of livestock some which sell for less than the cost of the vaccine ?
perhaps if I'm not susceptible I am similarly uninfectious, or do you think I might be Swine Flu Mary ?
There are individuals that 'have' and transmit swine flu without showing swine flu symptoms, or symptoms that are so mild they may not even be recognized. You might just be the biggest threat to the population that we've ever encountered 😉
(please tell me that justifies preventative culling)
[i]There are individuals that 'have' and transmit swine flu without showing swine flu symptoms, or symptoms that are so mild they may not even be recognized[/i]
Carriers, they exist for pretty much every virus.
Simon, I don't think it would work that way, largely because, just as we (alledgedly) have become more evolved over time, so things like viruses have evolved to be able to mutate so much faster.
Unfortunately, in our attempts to avoid illness and death from viruses, we provide the perfect arena to allow the development of ever more sophisticated viruses to develop; we increase the selection pressure and end up with better viruses...
Bacteria are at it too; the development of MRSA is a case in point, and now we have ESBL producing bacteria which essentially negate the effect of beta-lactam antibiotics.
We're just big piles of food for micro-organisms, and they'll get us all sooner or later..
You might just be the biggest threat to the population that we've ever encountered
(please tell me that justifies preventative culling)
surely the correct response would be to clone such individuals to obtain a disease-free population ? Or might it be that vulnerability to disease confers some unspecified evolutionary benefit?
Essentially, you should have sex with lots of women...
Unfortunately, in our attempts to avoid illness and death from viruses, we provide the perfect arena to allow the development of ever more sophisticated viruses to develop; we increase the selection pressure and end up with better viruses...
yes, and it worries me that some simple flaw in the vaccine, bypassing as it does our normal protection from disease vectors, might wreak havoc if given to everyone - so can only be justified for generally life threatening diseases.
...this could, unfortunately, lead to a diminution in the ability of the human race to appreciate aesthetically beautiful things, but it's for the greater good...
you should have sex with lots of women..
appealing as that might be, I've been snipped 🙁
[i]yes, and it worries me that some simple flaw in the vaccine, bypassing as it does our normal protection from disease vectors, might wreak havoc if given to everyone - so can only be justified for generally life threatening diseases[/i]
As a concern, it's not without merit, but at present given our knowledge, it would seem to be an unjustified assumption.
We could extract viable sperm using a needle aspiration technique, but might have crowd control problems in the queue...
yes, and it worries me that some simple flaw in the vaccine, bypassing as it does our normal protection from disease vectors
But surely a vaccine works by triggering our "normal protection from disease vectors"?
[i]Bacteria are at it too; the development of MRSA is a case in point, and now we have ESBL producing bacteria which essentially negate the effect of beta-lactam antibiotics.[/i]
MRSA has been around for generations though, so not really a new suprebug as the press like to make out.
Had it 6 weeks ago. And the winter flu jab. And the whooping cough jab. T1 diabetic and front line health worker.
No problems.
Also slight sore arm for me, no other side effects.
GP 'insisted' as I have had 'serious' illness in the past!
I was a bit worried but it was fine.
please tell me that justifies preventative culling
No, sadly, and neither does Trolling on the subject of the worth of vaccinations on a forum known to have a smattering of health workers present.
However, if there is any suggestion that this topic may snowball into another MMR debate I will happily revise my opinion on the merits of a preventative cull.
No thanks, I'm with SimonFB, Don't get ill at all and don't trust a new drug..... we as humans take far to many already, is there anything wrong with allowing our bodies to combat things on their own??
I do forget that most of the folk on here are old folk, Flu jabs in the winter??! ha ha, you old buggers....... 😈
is there anything wrong with allowing our bodies to combat things on their own??
It's a new flu strain so no one is immune to it. Not even young, immortal super fit guys 🙄
you can just let your body combat it on it's own*. Chances are you'll most probably be fine. As long as you accept there is the slight chance your "combat" will end in hospitalisation or even death.
(* vaccines pretty much rely on your bodies ability to naturally combat stuff, but we'll ignore that detail)
There was a recent paper from Mexico that looked at the effects of having received last year's seasonal flu vaccine, which did contain vaccine against an H1N1 strain although not the same one causing swine flu but one of its sisters cousins or aunts. But if you had had the vaccine then you were a lot less likely to get the swine flu and none of the 8 patients who had been vaccinated and subsequently got swine flu died whereas 18 of the 52 unvaccinated patients who got swine flu did die. Its not the greatest study, and you have to be able to grasp the idea of relative risk to see the point, but if the death rate in one group is not a lot and in the other is 35% then the "it will never happen to me" group doesn't have to be that large for its members to be in with a good chance of being wrong.
Had my second swine flu jab today (Celvapan) and feel fine (as I did after the first dose). I had it to protect those around me (due to my work).
It's a new flu strain so no one is immune to it. Not even young, immortal super fit guys
interestingly, by no stretch of the imagination could I be described as either young (56) or even routinely fit :o) Perhaps my immunity is a more generalised thing ?
I really meant that comment for stompy, after he pointed out we're all old buggers (which is true).
You, Simon, are just a medical marvel 🙂
Yes. Immunization should confer a degree of resistance. Swine flu is potentially fatal. I like the idea of reduced risk of death.
Had it a month or even a couple of months ago.
in fact gave myself the seasonal in one arm and swine flu in other arm...
Swine flu jab sore for 36 hrs
otherwise wouldn't have known that I'd had it.
I do understand peoples concerns about having it.
It's advised, but at the end of he day optional. afaik we don't live in a Nazi state that forces it's population tto be injected with vaccines.
Anyone remember the other thread about health workers being immunised?
A subject that seems to provoke strong feelings on here.
Do what you want to do.
I've has the swine flu jab (I work in healthcare & have a long term neurological condition) and other than a sore arm was fine. Had it on the thursday, was riding Gisburn that saturday. No illness, nothing. Didn't even feel "viral", which I've had happen with other imms & vaccs over the years.
As for testing it, it has had pretty much the same testing that occurs with every seasonal flu vaccine each year.
Age & immunity is interesting, there is a school of thought that says those over 50 (I think it is) may have a degree of immunity through exposure to similar strains that were around in the 1960's, whereas the younger population will have had no exposure.
Even if you passed the online test to be given tamiflu, unless you had H1N1 confirmed through testing, if you are in a high risk group you should still consider the immunisation.
[u]missingfrontallobe[/u] - Member..I have a long term neurological condition..
Lol. I think I know what it might be 😀
GrahamS - Membermissingfrontallobe - Member
..I have a long term neurological condition..
Lol. I think I know what it might be
Really? I wonder what gives it away?????? 8)