[Closed] Would you give IDS a kicking?

I am opposed to violence and do not believe in smacking children . I could punch IDS for a week without a twinge of regret.

Like babies nappies, politicians should be changed ,when the contents are seen as obnoxious to most people, and like babies politicians sometimes contain large piles of CRAP, which spurts prematurely out and leaves a nasty mess.

Time for a change ids,YOURE OBVIOUSLY NOT WORKING HARD ENOUGH AND GETING PAID FAR TOO MUCH.

I would happily murder the lot of them.

I'd rather leave the Tory party on a small island with no-one else and see how it all pans out. Like Lord of the Flies, but with worse government.

I think I'd settle for the majority of the Tory party lined up and then getting to run back and forth smacking them in the face with a rake!

There is far too much emphasis on work, surely if someone does not wish to work then they ought not to be expected. Life is far too short to be a wageslave all of your best years.

Why can`t we just tax big business and rich people, they can afford it.

These "would" threads are amusing and indicative of the same ill whether they concern politicians or cute bums. A clear demonstration that people would rather live in a fantasy world than do anything.

A clear demonstration that people would rather live in a fantasy world than do anything.

In some ways you're right - but what would you advocate doing? I'm voting for, and campaigning for, Scottish independence - but if we get that it'll still leave the rest of you in the mess.

The democratic system is broken. What can we as individuals do to fix it?

cheekyboy - must be trolling

Edukator - That's the British way. I was talking to a builder the other week - he was saying his wages had been cut to the bone in the "Financial Crisis", yet his bosses were paid the same as before. I said "Is there not a union, or can you organise a protest?" "I don't like to cause trouble,

"I really can't be bothered, it might be difficult" etc etc etc came the replies.

It really is tough to decide which one of the present Tories is the most deserving of the first slap/punch/assault with bombers/bullet. The whole lot of them are utterly loathsome to a frankly ridiculous degree.

I think Gove would get it first though, because he's not from the usual toff background, so he really has no excuse

Though IDS is running him close. He likes to speak of his time looking for work when he came out of the army. As if he understands what its lke to live on the dole. Though its considerably easier if you're married to landed gentry who's daddy gave you a £2 million quid country pile to live in

****s the lot of them!!!

There is far too much emphasis on work, surely if someone does not wish to work then they ought not to be expected. Life is far too short to be a wageslave all of your best years.

Why can`t we just tax big business and rich people, they can afford it.

Troll much?

Two things I suggest:-

a legal requirement to vote, and no cabinet reshuffles. You are either very well qualified for your position [for example a Masters+/work your way up to it, live it] or you can bugger off.

I think that would be a good start.

What I'd love to do is make the lot of them spend the rest of their days living the life they've condemned other people too.

So Dave, George and chums can forget their inherited fortunes, skiing holidays and Chipping Norton Kitchen suppers. Instead they can live in a damp one bedroom flat in a grim tower block in some crime-riddled shithole, with incredibly short-tempered, violent neighbours, getting by on benefits, and not a penny more

That would be real justice!

a legal requirement to vote

Agreed - but only if there's a "none of the above" option, otherwise it just entrenches the current system.

Yes, the Tories are a loathsome lot.
But Labour were awful too.
And I voted Lib Dem at the last election and couldn't be more disappointed.
Alex Salmond is a slimy little prick of a man.
I think it was Billy Connelly said to only vote for someone you'd like to sit in the pub and have a pint with...not sure if I'd like to do that with any of them, certainly not Ed.
I always liked Charles Kennedy...but its probably not best to take him to the pub!
In summary I don't like politicians!

Arlette Laguiller lived on the 13th floor of an HLM throughout her political career.

Of course I am trolling, but do you have a solution apart from assaulting folk ?

Looks like they were right about the economy though and that labour were wrong.

Of course there should be a "None of the above", we definitely need that option.

Of course I am trolling, but do you have a solution apart from assaulting folk ?

No, do you?

It's not a solution, but it would be cathartic.

There was an MP who quite famously got pelted with bread rolls by shoppers in a supermarket. It was at the time of the pensions swindle. There's one who felt the opinion of (some of) the electorate.

It really is tough to decide which one of the present Tories is the most deserving of the first slap/punch/assault with bombers/bullet.

Nah - to keep in line with their cost cutting policies I'd line them up so that one shot could take as many of them out as possible. Thankfully scottish independence will rid us of that lot forever.

If you cut through the crap and PR what he is actually proposing (ie one system, one payment, amount dependent on need) is actually sensible, should reduce admin costs and will highlight (for those in work) the subsidy paid by taxpayers to their employer.

I'm as left-wing as they come, but the basic premise is correct.

Plus it will highlight the stupidity of Browns' tax-credit policy, where rather than aim for lower taxes he went for higher taxes and then credits back - with an incredible complicated and expense set of processes/systems to back them up.

Well on the flip side, my order book (home improvements) is fuller than it has ever been, I've been able to give 2 payrises in 12 months to my factory (5% total) and I'm reinvesting in the next round if improvements for the next 10 years. I reckon the jobs being done quite well thanks. Oddly, almost no one wants to work ANY additional hours for more money, so I guess they are all paid enough for a 40hr week...

Plus it will highlight the stupidity of Browns' tax-credit policy, where rather than aim for lower taxes he went for higher taxes and then credits back - with an incredible complicated and expense set of processes/systems to back them up.

Brown was trying to create a dependence on the state so people wouldn't vote for a reduction in it and therefore a perceived "cut" to their income. Reducing taxes would have cut the dependancy

@ tinybits

It's good to hear your news. Do you think this is a consequence of people moving house (and possibly to one needing attention), or to people staying put and improving / extending?

IDS is one of the few Tory MPs who seems to talk sense. Like Hague, being an ex-leader has given him a sense of perspective and a lack of toadying ambition.

Brown was trying to create a dependence on the state so people wouldn't vote for a reduction in it and therefore a perceived "cut" to their income. Reducing taxes would have cut the dependancy

He tried and succeeded to a certain extent. A benevolent government requires a subservient and appreciative populace, thats the agenda of left wing politics.

I am not a violent person by nature but any time I see IDS, Gidiot, Alexander (D) or Gove or even hear them I am overcome with a desire to inflict endless pain on their hideous frames.

Cameron and Clegg to a lesser degree. Miliband just makes me shake my head in despair.

I wouldn't advocate kicking anyone, but the real villains as usual are the headline writers. Another example of a headline that bears little resemblance to the facfs. Broadsheets are becoming as bad as e red tops and the Beeb!

It's difficult to see past IDS for the most black hearted, uncaring MP, but I'd say Theresa May is my least favourite. The woman is pure evil, only a notch down from Hitler I reckon. Her attitude toward immigrants and human rights is absolutely appalling, it staggers me that people have looked at all the candidates in their constituency and looked at her and gone "yep, she's definitely the best person to represent our views, she can only do good things".

She's currently trying to support the unlawful policy on marriage visas that the Tories introduced last year. She's appealing a high court ruling saying "these rules are unlawful, they are against the European Human Right to a family life". She seems completely happy to tear apart legitimate families in the name of lowering the immigrant quota so thickhead right wing Terry from Essex is happy.

Bencooper at least has the option to vote his way out of being ruled by Westminster and creating a separate country that will never vote Conservative. This, to my mind, is the best thing about an independent Scotland.

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IDS is one of the few Tory MPs who seems to talk sense. Like Hague, being an ex-leader has given him a sense of perspective and a lack of toadying ambition.

There's a very good reason why he's an "ex-leader". As leader of the Conservative Party he completely failed to impress the public. The Tories got rid of him at the first opportunity.

"Don't underestimate the quiet man" he once famously said, it seems the Tories quickly realised that they had in fact overestimated him.

Why can`t we just tax big business and rich people, they can afford it.

Of course I am trolling, but do you have a solution apart from assaulting folk ?

Bencooper at least has the option to vote his way out of being ruled by Westminster and creating a separate country that will never vote Conservative. This, to my mind, is the best thing about an independent Scotland.

I would have thought the centre right could rebrand post independence and then re enter Scottish politics as an effective force. It's the current "brand" which is the issue

but I'd say Theresa May is my least favourite. The woman is pure evil, only a notch down from Hitler I reckon. Her attitude toward immigrants and human rights is absolutely appalling,

I would have thought the centre right could rebrand post independence and then re enter Scottish politics as an effective force.

The Scottish Conservatives were seriously considering dropping the word "Conservative" from their name.

I don't think it's branding - Scotland is just not right-wing enough for the Tories, no matter what they call themselves.

Very simple- underemployment is now at a record high, unemployment is still extremely high, so targeting workers for "not working enough" is either insane or disgusting. You can't take extra shifts or higher paying work that doesn't exist, or force people into different work when those who actually want the jobs can't get them.

And where these low paid jobs need doing, if the conclusion is that people doing them don't earn enough then moving them on obviously doesn't resolve the problem at all because someone else will have to take their place, only paying a living wage actually changes anything.

Should we punch IDS? Probably not, it'd solve nothing. Should those who can, living in a country that rejected his party and his thinking 60 years ago, vote to be free of this bilge? Course we should. Much more productive than violence and anger, just wash our hands of england's recurring mistake.

Brown was trying to create a dependence on the state so people wouldn't vote for a reduction in it and therefore a perceived "cut" to their income.

Everyone is dependent on the state. Think police, defence and prisons if you are right wing for examples

Reducing taxes would have cut the dependancy

Occasionally the Tories come up with some good idea but this is not one of them
The issue of low pay is not one where the people are happy to be low paid. If anything they are the victims and punishing them will achieve nothing

I agree with Binners and others. It does not matter your political hue we have a political class [ increasingly on all sides now] making rules for aspects of society they know nothing about. What % of our MP's have experienced low pay? live in areas where low pay and minimal hours is an issue? Live in social housing? We have folk ruling us who have not experienced anything like the lifestyles they want to "help"
The tories knee jerk reaction is always to blame the poor as if they choose to get shit wages rather than realise that companies like to exploit the labour market. high unemployment and limited legislation allows them to this even more than usual.
Its cheaper for a company to have folk on less than FT hours generally due to the NI threshold hence why there is more PT or underemployment

Should those who can, living in a country that rejected his party and his thinking 60 years ago, vote to be free of this bilge? Course we should. Much more productive than violence and anger, just wash our hands of england's recurring mistake.

How about Scotland's recurring mistake.........giving birth to politicians such as IDS ?

The Conservative Party got rid of IDS simply because he was probably too Conservative, the media stands between the public and the politicians and if the media dont like you and you dont kow tow to them then you are wasting your time. The modern conservatives are stuffed mainly with daft old buffers or silly neo-liberal rich types both of who care nothing for this country and its people, then again if we had a real Labour Party we may get a decent opposition.

It does not matter your political hue we have a political [s]class[/s] [b]dynasty[/b] [ increasingly on all sides now] making rules for aspects of society they know nothing about.

Straw, Prescott, Dromey, Blair etc

They all deserve a kicking. Two years and they still haven't cut anything. They are utterly useless. Stop spending money you don't have.

Well strike me down Big N Daft only mentioned labour ones- Who would have thunk it

Are you saying the Tories are drawn from a broad spectrum of Society or not dynastic - that should be a fun argument

It was a comment on general and it tragic the right wingers can only criticise the left wing ones when their party is by far the worse of the two ,Labour are catching them up.
It was a general point not a political [party] one.

ernie_lynch - Member

How about Scotland's recurring mistake.........giving birth to politicians such as IDS ?

Hah, he was born here but he left as soon as he could and he doesn't seem to want to come back

There is plenty of work out there. It may not be some people's idea of what they WANT to do, but sometimes you've just got to do it, and there is a definite skills gap as too many people have wasted their university years doing courses that are of no use to anyone in the real world, so the unemployment issue is not necessarily due to a job shortage, its a mix of reasons. The engineering industry for example, is crying out for high calibre engineers, but there is a chronic shortage. I think 2 years is more than enough time for someone to have looked for work or get re-trained before having to give something back.

The simple reality is we can no longer afford the welfare state so we need to wean people off it. We've got a worse debt to GDP ratio than Greece, Italy, Ireland Spain and Portugal. That is a reality any government of the day will have to deal with, so don't expect anything different from any other party despite what they promise to win your vote. At least the Tories have been consistent in their message that they intend to tackle the difficult economic crisis we face.

It will always be the case that MPs will make rules that affect lifestyles that they have never and probably never will experience. It would be impossible to imagine otherwise. Should we suggest that the only people who can vote on benefits are those that have spent time on benefits, or inheritance tax and have large estates that they need to plan for, or only immigrants can got on immigration, football season ticket holders on safety in football grounds. That would be a weird Parliament to watch.

May seems more incompetent than evil. She is the Tories Prescott. A token appointment, promoted well above her capabilities, incapable of executing policy successfully, Teflon coated given the number of errors made and largely harmless were it not for the roles they hold/held. Time will tell if Milliband is labours' IDS.

Among all of is, the fact that governments seem incapable of implementing IT projects successfully seems to have gone largely unnoticed. Yet one more example of incompetence and waste.

I wish we could away from the notion that these people are our rulers or leaders. They are not. They are our representatives and their job is to serve us not the other way round. Cameron's well deserved recent bloody noses are hopefully good examples of how this lesson needs to be learned. MPs know our place!

There is plenty of work out there.

The simple reality is we can no longer afford the welfare state

The Tories have done what they said they would.....really? That seems at odds with what has happened IMO. Consistent message? Again not on the deficit, debt levels of monetary and fiscal policy.

Well is suppose you could credit them with re-inflating the housing market, which is just what the economy needs?!?!?!

wobbliscott - Member

There is plenty of work out there. It may not be some people's idea of what they WANT to do, but sometimes you've just got to do it

There are 2 and a half million people unemployed, and 3 million underemployed. Are there 3 million roles waiting to be filled? Or are you, in fact, talking incredible pish.

(if you're unsure, it's the second one, hth)

Time will tell if Milliband is labours' IDS.

Millibean looks like a potential PM in the same way I look like a future Tour de France winner. He's worse than useless! And as the next election approaches the Tory Press will gleefully remind everyone of the fact on a minute-by-minute basis.

I just struggle to see what the labour party is for at all, any more. It certainly doesn't seem to know. It represents nothing other than a large, dim-witted, collective "......erm......". Any opposition worthy of the name would be running rings around this lot. If not for their pure spitefull nastiness, then for its biblical scale incompetence! It looks like IDS's much trumpeted Universal Benefit is descending into an expensive, non-workable shambles. And what has the labour party got to say on the matter? Who knows? The silence is daefening. They're utterly devoid of ideas or alternatives

At least the Tories make no pretense to be anything other than the champions of the rich, to the detriment of everyone else, who they frankly couldn't give a toss about

Well strike me down Big N Daft only mentioned labour ones- Who would have thunk it

Rees Mogg, care to name any more, oh yes Benn, happy to take more names

The tories economic plan did not work

[tannoy]TJ TO THE FORUM[?tannoy]

It would be impossible to imagine otherwise

Impossible to imagine! Not only is it not impossible its not actually hard.

Your next bit is a bit of straw man as I am not saying that but if you want to represent* then they should be representative rather than drawn from a narrow strata of society.

*that is a very good comment you made there . Please pull me up on that if I ever do it again as i will strive to always say representatives - not sarcasm to be clear.

At least the Tories make no pretense to be anything other than the champions of the rich

😕

If that were true they would stand zero chance of winning a general election.

It is precisely because they manage to convince a sufficient amount of hopelessly naive and gullible members of the electorate otherwise, that they stand any chance at all.

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That's the irony though Ernie. They didn't convince enough half-wits at the last election either. They've no mandate for any of this. But do they look like they care?

@slowoldgit

In my line, it's 75% people improving there current house, with 25% doing work to one they've just bought. Houses are selling again (in the South west) and people are starting to spend cash in quite serious amounts, a typical project for me is £25k, and I do 15 a week, which is a world away from 2008!

Thanks, tinybits, I'm hoping to sell in Wessex and that's slightly good news, first in yonks.

The simple reality is we can no longer afford the welfare state so we need to wean people off it.

I'd agree with the above on one point. Tax credits. Pay people a liveable working wage, but once again we are subsidising business.

Other than that, we can afford it, if everyone pays their way. unfortunately, contrary to what others say about the wealthy paying more, the tax burden is falling more and more on the lower orders, while "others" are getting away with it.

The Tories have done what they said they would.....really? That seems at odds with what has happened IMO. Consistent message? Again not on the deficit, debt levels of monetary and fiscal policy.

Well is suppose you could credit them with re-inflating the housing market, which is just what the economy needs?!?!?!

This lot only had one real plan from the start: use the economic crisis to privatise state assets and line the pockets of the likes of Serco and G4s. Someone else can sort out the debt problems, that someone being us plebs.

This lot only had one real plan from the start: use the economic crisis to privatise state assets

the state should be owning high street and investment banks?

No they should have left the market to sort it out because it is perfect

unfortunately, contrary to what others say about the wealthy paying more, the tax burden is falling more and more on the lower orders, while "others" are getting away with it.

HMRC must be part of the conspiracy then

http://order-order.com/2012/12/12/labour-taxed-poor-more-and-rich-less-than-coalition/

Flashy used to do this, turn up on threads and no matter what was said about anything just slag of labour.
Did they not cut the higher rate from the one that labour set up - the one that means the rich are paying more ?
Did the lib dems not insist on the raising on the threshold to 10 k or no tax cut for the rich - hence lower rates for the less well off.

The only Tory policy here seems to have been to cut the tax rate from 50- 45 % for the "rich".

To be clear Labour were shit at not helping the poor as well. I remain unconvinced Tories even GAS about them though. If you could point me in the direction of a policy they have done or manifesto pledge you could convince me- see if you can do it without mentioning labour 😉

ah go on then.. I'll have a go

I haven't got a very hard punch but I'm quite tenacious, I reckon I could probably wear him down eventually if I employ some psychotic rage to psych him out a bit..
He doesn't look like he's got much fight in him past a bit of ill-conceived moral outrage and bluster..

Did they not cut the higher rate from the one that labour set up

How soon after coming into office did Labour introduce that 50% top rate ?

A month, a year ? Na, about a month before they left office. Just a political game.

Absolutely it was a deeply cynical move designed to harm the Tories who either had to tax the rich which they hate or reduce the tax and suffer bad PR. It was politics not principle

Still remains the Tories contribution was to reduce the tax rate on the higher taxes but again we are left discussing/criticising labour 🙄

Well on the flip side, my order book (home improvements) is fuller than it has ever been, I've been able to give 2 payrises in 12 months to my factory (5% total) and I'm reinvesting in the next round if improvements for the next 10 years. I reckon the jobs being done quite well thanks. Oddly, almost no one wants to work ANY additional hours for more money, so I guess they are all paid enough for a 40hr week...

In my line, it's 75% people improving there current house, with 25% doing work to one they've just bought. Houses are selling again (in the South west) and people are starting to spend cash in quite serious amounts, a typical project for me is £25k, and I do 15 a week, which is a world away from 2008!

Yes, it's interesting isn't it. I put my (Wiltshire) house on the market fully expecting a struggle to sell but it went under offer within 3 days. In fact the day that it went on the market there were two viewings.

Ernie, to be accurate, IDS said: [i]"Do not underestimate [u]the determination[/u] of a quiet man."[/i]

Which is much more apposite as it is quite clear that he is determined to deliver the Universal Credit when most would have abandoned such a an excellent but extremely difficult idea long ago.

Are you saluting his indefatigability then 😉

CG - That's because we've a government who have given up on promoting any real economic growth, and have instead fallen back on artificially inflating another housing bubble with the frankly bonkers scheme to guarantee deposits for [s]people who can't afford houses[/s] prospective first time buyers.

So Osbourne's genius idea is to recreate the sub-prime housing market, but to cut the banks out, and leave the taxpayer directly liable for the losses when the whole thing inevitably goes tits up!

Inspired!

I am indeed, Junky.

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Thanks Stoner, I stand corrected.

So anyway........"Do not underestimate the determination of a quiet man" IDS once famously said, but it seems the Tories quickly realised that they had in fact completely overestimated him, no matter how determined he might have been, and promptly sacked him soon after that.

that's much better.

Although to overestimate him is not the same as to overestimate his determination. Obviously. 😉

binners - completely agree with you! My buyers were first-time buyers and pretty certain that they got a big handout from Mummy and Daddy too.

I'll say it again, I could quite happily murder the Tories. They haven't got a bl**dy clue.

I hope he isn't [i]too[/i] determined.. 😯

My entire fighting strategy relies on him folding quite quickly.. 😕

I don't often find myself agreeing with an EU finance minister, but he described it as the most insane economic policy he'd ever seen. And that's from the people who gave us the Euro!

The Tories - busy recreating the baseless, debt-fuelled housing boom that really will bankrupt this country this time. Not that'll effeCt them and their mates. Like it didn't last time. Hurray for Eton!

Personally i wouldn't kick him..
Much rather skin him slowly and carefully, roll his still twitching corpse in salt and then nail his flayed pelt to the walls of the Commons chamber as a polite reminder of the price of incompetence.

Maybe his Tory grandee father in law can foot the bill for the £34 million of our money his dippy scheme has already written off, and the doubtless billions its going to end up costing, to archive the sum total of **** all other than reminding the plebs to know their place? 🙄

When the Singletrack Facepunching Mob turns up, it'll be interesting to find out how much of his army training he remembers 😆

I hope to get him when he looks upwards on hearing the command bring forth the bombers...might even wee on his shoes whilst he is doing it

HMRC must be part of the conspiracy then

http://order-order.com/2012/12/12/labour-taxed-poor-more-and-rich-less-than-coalition/

You post to that blog and you expect me to take you seriously? Big, I don't know, daft, definitely.

Incidently, it those figures only show direct taxation, not indirect, which under this Government has gone up, which impact the lower orders a damn sight more than those at the top.

So thank you for re-enforcing what I said.