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I have it in my company car - 1 series which I will be handing back soon. In the two years I ve had it, it's been very useful for dodging around traffic. I like the fact it's easy to zoom in and out, using the I drive controls , to find a route round jams, and once or twice, closed roads without diversion signs.
I guess this could be done on a phone, but how does the law view using a phone as a satnav, ie, altering parameters on the go?
[quote=bikebouy ]Yerbutt, not everyone can see the screen on a smartphone can they. Some struggle to see out of the windscreen whilst in possession of a set of keys. Not everyone wear glasses even if they need to.
You're discussing yourself there? Because none of those are issues I have (or I suspect the majority commenting in this thread), hence straw man!
You can argue the toss about how easy it is to clip the phone in/plug the leads in/have all the leads obliterating the other controls of air-con, radio etc.
But it's just so much easier to have inbuilt satnavs.
Yes I can, and I can explain how it can be nowhere near as much hassle as you and others seem to think. I sense more straw men though "all the leads" plural? The one optional charging lead (as mentioned before I find it handy to charge the phone in the car even if not using satnav) doesn't obstruct anything at all, I don't even notice it's there. So it can be just as easy as using a built in satnav if you set it up properly.
Because there are other advantages to using a phone as already pointed out:
[quote=yourguitarhero ]The main reason for using a phone for me is that I don't know the postcode of where I'm going.
Whereas on a phone it has an intelligent search. Voice commands too.
+1 - as I've already mentioned several times almost always it's a single tap to select my destination as it's on my recent search list, so no sitting in the car twiddling with dials. If not I just select voice recognition and tell it. The handful of seconds it takes to put my phone in place is negligible compared to how much quicker this stage is.
[quote=tenfoot ]I guess this could be done on a phone, but how does the law view using a phone as a satnav, ie, altering parameters on the go?
No difference legally, and I'd imagine the level of distraction involved is pretty similar.
clearly some folk like their phones ALOT.
doesn't work for me and is shit.
Maybe I need a phablet.
tenfoot - Member
I have it in my company car - 1 series which I will be handing back soon. In the two years I ve had it, it's been very useful for dodging around traffic. I like the fact it's easy to zoom in and out, using the I drive controls , to find a route round jams, and once or twice, closed roads without diversion signs.
Yep, this too ^^^
I actually do this a lot and often don't bother with route planning. I just want to check and pan around the map when traffic sucks. Re-routing on sat nav's (phone or otherwise) tends to take you down crap routes. A visual plan often works much better.
And fiddling with the joystick to move about is little more risk than messing with the radio. Not going to get you foul of using a mobile but could get you done for dangerous driving if you're being a muppet and not concentrating.
One of the advantages of using Google Maps as a SatNav is that it'll have a history of places you've been recently searching for. So, you look up the ferry timetable for Ardrossan and a couple of days later want to drive there, it'll often pop it straight into the search bar. Same with appointments in Google Calendar.
The work vans are Bluetooth enabled. As soon as I take my phone into one of them it recognises it as a "safe" zone and I can have it start apps automatically. Voice enabled, integrated with music player (auto-muting) and with phone with dashboard camera too. I'm really struggling to see the disadvantages.
[quote=deadkenny ]And fiddling with the joystick to move about is little more risk than messing with the radio. Not going to get you foul of using a mobile but could get you done for dangerous driving if you're being a muppet and not concentrating.
About the same as doing it on a phone, which if the phone is on a holder is exactly the same legally
aracer - Member
You're discussing yourself there? Because none of those are issues I have (or I suspect the majority commenting in this thread), hence straw man!
Are we discussing You ? Seems like you want to.. perhaps you are craving attention.. seems all a bit me me me, I.i.i in that sentence.
Not a straw man, if you want one I'm sure I can build you one. Do you have any straw ?
My comments, for sure I seem to need to clarify them, are for the general public. There are a lot of people out there who Can Not see mobile phone screens a meter away from them.
I do hope that's clear enough, should it not be then please do learn to read.
[quote=bikebouy ]My comments, for sure I seem to need to clarify them, are for the general public. There are a lot of people out there who Can Not see mobile phone screens a meter away from them.
I do hope that's clear enough, should it not be then please do learn to read.
Unfortunately the general public aren't reading STW, so it might be more useful to address your comments to those who are. Can I take it then that us lot who can see can just ignore your reasoning for why built in is better?
Plus smart phones have a habit of crashing and display is small, and some can't cope without a signal. They can't cope with tunnels either as have no sensor for speed without the sat view, whereas some in car systems are still picking up speed and maybe direction from the car.
I've only ever had my phone crash twice in eight months of doing my current job, which involves a lot of driving, getting on for 20,000 miles so far, and one of those occasions was due to the phone dying when the 12v adaptor broke without my noticing.
Tunnels are no more a problem for a phone than they are an in-built unit, the map is already loaded into the phone as part of the app, not downloaded on the fly, and the software extrapolates for speed etc if the satellites are lost, [i]exactly[/i] the same as inbuilt.
Some car units are pretty small, and they're nearly always positioned on the dashboard where you have to look away from the road; I always position mine so the bottom of the phone is touching the top of the dash, and to the right of centre, so it's always within my periferal vision when driving, the cable is never an issue, it drops away from the phone to wherever the powerpoint is, and doesn't get in the way of anything else.
i think we can pretty much sum this up as integrated is neater but not always in optimal position, and phone/maps has one extra cable, possibly a sh1t plastic amazon holder but is better software and cheaper. no?
Aracer - really? <sigh>
CountZero - Member
Tunnels are no more a problem for a phone than they are an in-built unit, the map is already loaded into the phone as part of the app, not downloaded on the fly, and the software extrapolates for speed etc if the satellites are lost, exactly the same as inbuilt.
A phone can only estimate that you are moving at roughly the same speed as entering the tunnel. On losing sight of satellites it has no idea what speed you are actually going. Inbuilt can be tied into the car speedo and may have direction sensors also (though phones do also).
The estimate probably works in most cases assuming you don't change speed, though if for some reason you slow down or speed up in the tunnel it may get it wrong.
Where it would get interesting is in tunnels that fork in different directions (Paris I think has some).
Aracer - give over. Some people find it a hassle, some don't. It's got nothign to do with a straw man, it's just a matter of opinion.
Anyway:
Tunnels are no more a problem for a phone than they are an in-built unit
I'd disagree here. The Prius one knows exactly how fast the car is going and what angle I've got the steering wheel at, so its dead reckoning is pretty good. Whereas my phone sort of gives up.
Ok so it's not a huge deal, because how many times do you have to turn in a tunnnel? (actualy there are some tunnel junctions in Germany IIRC) but it's of more use when satellite reception is poor.
Stick-on GPS will become a lot better when they start putting power sockets at the base of the windscreen instead of in the middle of the dash.
Like the Ford Tourneo you mean? Power and USB sockets are under a flap on the dash, behind the steering wheel.Stick-on GPS will become a lot better when they start putting power sockets at the base of the windscreen instead of in the middle of the dash.
I use this instead:
Unfortunately the general public aren't reading STW,
What are we then? I was sure I was part of the general public at some point!
Anyway, as I asked earlier on, do modern (ish) built in sat navs now use an SD card as opposed to discs?
The satnav in my 1 series has a hard drive. Up until the warranty expired it was connected to the internet, so I guess it could be updated remotely. Don't know what happens now.
Having had a built in sat nav for the last 18 months, I do prefer it.
The VW system is easy enough to use even if it is a tad clunky putting post codes in, but it's not let me down yet. It re-routes for traffic etc. I have a summary screen between the speedo and rev counter, so still have directions if I change the screen to make a call, change the album etc.
I find it much better than having a phone stuck on the dash with a lead etc plus I can control lots of it from the steering wheel / voice control. The one thing that the phone does do better is just searching for a place / business etc and being able to get directions straight away.
Yes- the steering wheel buttons are pretty useful.
[quote=molgrips ]Aracer - give over. Some people find it a hassle, some don't. It's got nothign to do with a straw man, it's just a matter of opinion.
The strawman wasn't the bit about hassle, it was (along with "leads" plural):
[quote=bikebouy ]Yerbutt, not everyone can see the screen on a smartphone can they. Some struggle to see out of the windscreen whilst in possession of a set of keys. Not everyone wear glasses even if they need to.
Do we need to do a survey of who on this thread can't see the screen on a smartphone, struggles to see out of the windscreen or doesn't wear glasses if they need to?
I'm sure we're not all driving gods on here, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to assume that the vast majority and likely 100% of people on a forum for active people who are interested enough in driving to want to comment on a thread about the best satnav have none of those issues. If they did then clearly that might be a good reason to choose one over another, but in that case you'd think they'd have mentioned it (hence wondering if bikebouy was referring to himself). If none of those apply to anybody on this thread then it's done for dramatic effect and doesn't add to the discussion, hence strawman (and I can't believe I really needed to explain a strawman).
The point about a phone screen being smaller (I have a compact one, so it's smaller than most, but I have good eyesight) has been made well by others and is a fair point, there's no need to over dramatise it though.
Stick-on GPS will become a lot better when they start putting power sockets at the base of the windscreen instead of in the middle of the dash.
I posted the pic of my location up there - I can't see that a different location of power socket would make much if any difference (it's in the usual location bottom left of the central dash - the lead goes across in front of the gear lever, then straight up), the lead really doesn't get in the way and is no hassle at all. Of course it's more of an issue for those who want to locate the phone next to the A pillar, but then crucially you don't have that choice with a built in satnav - you're constrained to the location where I have mine and where the power lead isn't a problem! Yes I did spend a bit of time thinking about the ergonomics, but why wouldn't you do that?
[quote=mindmap3 ]even if it is a tad clunky putting post codes in
...
The one thing that the phone does do better is just searching for a place / business etc and being able to get directions straight away.
and right there you have the advantages of a phone based system, which more than outweigh any disadvantages IMHO - given that those disadvantages are so minor.
the lead really doesn't get in the way
It does in my car.
Where is your phone holder, where is the power socket, and what does it get in the way of? (genuinely curious and trying to see the other POV)
deadkenny - MemberThey can't cope with tunnels either
While that is true... hands up everyone who thinks any satnav is useful while in a tunnel. What does it tell you, "Keep driving through the tunnel"
hands up everyone who thinks any satnav is useful while in a tunnel. What does it tell you, "Keep driving through the tunnel"
Until you find a tunnel with a junction in it.....
Where is your phone holder, where is the power socket, and what does it get in the way of? (genuinely curious and trying to see the other POV)
Power socket down by the gearstick, so the cable has to come up past the radio, be draped over the instruments and then over to the phone on the a pillar. Drives me nuts.
I am going to take a feed from the fusebox which is down low by the door and run some usb cabling up the a pillar behind the trim and to a spot behyind the rear view mirror (for a dashcam), with clips to keep the connectors stashed when not in use.
[quote=molgrips ]draped over the instruments and then over to the phone on the a pillar.
Ah, so as I identified in the comment you replied to, satnav in a position where the built in one isn't. So this isn't an issue with whether built in is better? It's a fair point that it would be useful to have power outlets in different locations - USB outlets on the A pillar and above the screen would indeed be handy!
I can't put the satnav where a built in one would be, really.
In the Passat, built in nav would be quite low down where the radio is, but that's compensated for by the prompts between the instruments. In the Prius it's high up and center of the dash. I can't stick the sucker on the dash, because it's crinkly plastic. It would work if I could.
Other option is to hang it on the air vents but that's just crappy and obscures the vent on hot days. And the cable still dangles annoyingly. And the thing is still just too small.
Car-play or equivalent is the way forward I reckon.
[quote=molgrips ]I can't stick the sucker on the dash, because it's crinkly plastic. It would work if I could.
Mine is glued on - I'm sure that would work (I had a convenient smooth flat bit - though even that won't take a sucker). I also hate air vent mounts for exactly the reasons you give. Carplay or Android Auto seems like a really good solution - though I don't think anybody on here has that? Though actually that does remind me - I was wondering whether love for phone nav depends on what flavour of phone you have. Is it not so integrated on iOS - on Android I often have notifications for things from my calendar which can be directly opened in maps.
I wouldn't glue anything to the dash *shudder*
[quote=Northwind ]hands up everyone who thinks any satnav is useful while in a tunnel.not if it's a very low tunnel
^ low? long?
Certainly a long tunnel just to get an idea when it will end.
But it's not critical.
Not sure why you wouldn't glue something to the dash, you had your cars long enough and tbh I'm old enough to have had fitted phones in cars. Always left them in when changing to a new one.
But, compared to using a standalone phone a built-in beats it hands down, if only if it just means less worry of been caught fiddling with your phone by the police etc. Ours just works off the iDrive like everything else in the car.
What a crazy thread.
All this arguing over a satnav option in a car.
Thread asked why you'd use one over another and these are the answers. Some prefer one, some the other.
and some will defend their choice to the hilt on semantics.
I have used a Garmin Nuvi for years, but am getting a new car next week with built in one. I do find the cables and sticking the sucker thing on and off the windscreen a little bit of a faff, but only tend to use it once a week tops.
So, are built in Audi ones any good, or will I hanker for my Garmin Nuvi ?
[quote=b r ]But, compared to using a standalone phone a built-in beats it hands down, if only if it just means less worry of been caught fiddling with your phone by the police etc.
Hands down? Does your built in one allow you to select destinations you've recently searched for (or where you have notifications for events) with a couple of clicks? It appears some built-in has voice control, but far from all. Or are there advantages and disadvantages?
I've already pointed out several times that there is no difference in legality or level of distraction if you have your phone on a mount in easy reach - I'm assuming nobody is using a phone as a satnav whilst holding it in their hand.
I have to admit, I'm not sure what advantages there are to standalone dedicated satnavs, so might opt for built-in over one of those if it wasn't for the cost aspect.
There may be no difference in 'legality', but I know which one will result in a greater likelihood of a copper pulling you if seen to use.
Your evidence for that is?
...I did my own research, and without spending all day on it, the only case I could find of a prosecution involving satnav where the type was specified was this one:
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/article3823515.ece
(I presume the cases not involving accidents don't get reported - but do they even get penalised?)
Until you find a tunnel with a junction in it...
Anyone care to point to any road tunnels in the UK with a junction in the middle? And any road tunnels long enough to really mess up a phone or stand-alone satnav that wouldn't do exactly the same to a built-in unit?
As far as size of screen's concerned, most of the large screen installed units have the display set in the centre of the dash, just below the ventilation vents, those which either sit on the top of the dash as a fixed or movable screen seem to be about the same size as my iP6+, certainly the Megane I had over the weekend had a screen almost exactly the same size, and pretty much the same position I set my phone up, so the bottom of the clamp is touching the top of the dash - that way it's in my periferal vision so I only have to glance sideways slightly to see the screen. I've come across very few cars with installed satnav that has that setup, I really do [i]not[/i] like the screen down in the dash, it's bad enough the aircon on my Octavia sitting down below the radio, with identical flush-fit buttons that force you to look down at it if you need to make any adjustments, having my phone sat with its bottom edge a couple of millimetres above the dash in the centre is ideal, plus the apps update automatically, and I've got a choice of five, although I only use two normally, Google maps through the BP app to locate their filling stations, and Navmii, which is the best of the actual dedicated satnav apps I've tried, out of Navmii, Here and CoPilot.
That's for professional, day-to-day use, so far just over 15,000 recorded miles* since September 19, not the occasional weekend jaunt.
*I've done a lot more, I didn't use it for regular straight-forward destinations, but I've started to now, because it's alerted me to heavy congestion on a couple of occasions when I had it already set up, and I used a different app from the beginning of June until September, so probably nearer 20,000 in eight months.
ive already pointed out several times that there is no difference in legality or level of distraction
Whether you say so or not ....My previous companies view was that you get caught using your phone at all while driving pool cars internally or externally and specifically mentioned hands free chatting , music or sat nav apps and it was disciplinary.
They just didn't want the distraction temptation there.
Anyone care to point to any road tunnels in the UK with a junction in the middle?
a) Even after Brexit I imagine plenty of people will be driving abroad.
b) It's also affected by tall buildings in cities.
c) My point is such things DON'T mess up built in units because they have access to other sources of information like vehicle speed and steering angle.
That's for professional, day-to-day use, so far just over 15,000 recorded miles* since September 19, not the occasional weekend jaunt.
Are you trying to make me change my mind or something?
I've done well over 100k miles in my two cars - one of which has built in satnav, and one which doesn't. I'm fairly confident of my preference, and I've reported it to the OP as requested. That's all I can say.
[quote=trail_rat ]Whether you say so or not ....
Well it's a fact - and I'm not sure of the relevance of a company's illogical policies (assuming they didn't mind use of built in, or indeed dedicated stand-alone satnav).
hands up everyone who thinks any satnav is useful while in a tunnel
*puts hands up*
I've come across plenty. Just have to use ye olde worlde legacy road signs.
Many aren't tunnels as such, but cut+cover.
Neuchatel, Innsbruck, Leonberg (near Stuttgart), all have motorway exits within the tunnel and/or necessity to get in lane before the tunnel exit.
Or Limehouse tunnel for something a bit more domestic. Blackwall tunnel might have the junction technically outside the confines of the tunnel, but satnav instructions before might be useful.
Oh and my Garmin's stuck to the screen. At 6ft3, it's below the level of the bonnet line. Far less distraction there than having to glance at the TV in the middle of the console, although repeater instructions popping up in the dash display can be handy. The head up display on the Peugeot 3008? rental car I had was useless. Had to duck to see that, and it was the most annoying piece of motorised plastic ever (that will no doubt break anyway). Maybe they can be adjusted?
My pick-up has a a display on the dash too - don't really need the big display on.
Still prefer using the phone though
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