If you want to be ineffective in the job and not be able to do large parts of it? I am simply talking pragmatically not in an ideal world.
I really think some of you guys have no idea what these three types of nursing involve. A man simply will not be able to do the job properly.
We had a male health visitor for our two, who are now in their teens. Didn't like him at all, but this was due to him being a preachy ****, not for any gender issue.
I have a pet theory about this whole midwife/nurse = female, yet gynaecologist/obstetrician fine to be a bloke thing. It has a great deal to do with the feminised role title, I’m sure. Ban the words ‘nurse’ and ‘midwife’ and replace with ‘clinical practitioner’, ‘obstetrics specialist’ or some such and give it ten years to settle in and you’d see a much more equal gender balance in these roles.
Of course, the daily Wail brigade would hate it, (political correctness gone mad I tell thee) which I’m my mind is only a plus.
I have no no evidence for this other than there don’t seem to be such gender disparities or prevalent biased views in the equivalent medical professions of obstetrics and gynaecology.
no problems at all with a male HV / Nurse coming to the school - frankly it's a good bit of role model promotion for the boys as well as girls
Teej, you’re showing your age/generation! Surprised at you 😉
I really think some of you guys have no idea what these three types of nursing involve. A man simply will not be able to do the job properly.
Whilst I accept that some women may not be happy with a male health visitor I cannot see why there can be any objection to a man being a school nurse where literally 50% of the potential patients are male.
Attitudes will never change whilst we reinforce them. Such attitudes hinder attempts to obtain equality in the work place and in society in general.
gonefishin – expectations is the difference. Boys are used to female nurses, girls are not used to male ones
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">How/why do you think that happened? </span>
Our school nurse was a guy. Didn’t bother me as a child and I guess none of the parents either knew or cared...
personally I don’t car what gender my healthcare provider is as long as they can answer my questions about illnesses, treatment, pharmacology and at no point suggest that I should just look on NHS direct.... if I was going to self diagnose and Medicare I would not have gone to see you (because it’s a massive pita to actually get to see you). ideally they would also have little to no pep and cheeriness too...
Wouldn’t trouble me as a parent. I think there should be choice as what is ok for some - may not be for others. The choice being that of the person seeking treatment/support/guidance.
frankly it’s a good bit of role model promotion for the boys as well as girls
Yep! Nothing wrong with kids seeing that nurses can be any gender.
Having said that, both of our daughters have told us that "only men can be doctors" 😠
Which is pretty astounding, given that their mum is a consultant doctor.
Wouldn’t trouble me as a parent. I think there should be choice as what is ok for some – may not be for others. The choice being that of the person seeking treatment/support/guidance.
Well up to a point ... it's not like there is any/much point changing perceptions of geriatrics but it strikes me if someone didn't want "darkies" or whatever quaint term treating them that would be totally unacceptable.
With regards kids though ... I think we are well overdue or they grow up thinking professions are gender specific etc.
I don't remember being consulted in the 70's if I wanted a male HV to do the drop and cough... and 40+ yrs later I don't have any problem going to a female healthcare worker. Let's face it.. even if I did I'd need to share my "personal medical details" with the non-medical staff on reception anyway...
v8
I am just talking about the realities of the job - not what would be done in an ideal world. Just because you can does not mean you should. If you want an endless battle with peoples perceptions, with having to get chaperoning all the time, with having to refer people elsewhere 'cos you cannot do that task but most importantly how many young girls needing emergency contraception will be put off by having to talk to a man about it?
Gonefishing - but the male school nurse will not be able to provide most of the services the school nursing has to offer for 50% of their patients
The chaperoning thing for school nurses is a complete red herring. Teachers, by virtue of their job, have a much greater potential to harm a child than any school nurse but they aren’t chaperoned.
As for a male nurse not being able to deliver services to a girl, explain why that isn’t the case when the genders are reversed i.e. female nurse and a boy.
No its not. Its for the protection of the nurse., A male nurse would need a chaperon for most work with girls.
Society and expectations. It might not be right but it is the reality. also providing contraceptives and sexual health services to girls is much more intimate that doing it for boys.
Lol.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> What exactly is emergency contraception?</span>
No its not. Its for the protection of the nurse., A male nurse would need a chaperon for most work with girls.
Society and expectations. It might not be right but it is the reality. also providing contraceptives and sexual health services to girls is much more intimate that doing it for boys.
It's all expectations... but those are changing but they are only going to keep changing through our kids expecations.
I remember asking my parents in the 70's why the school had entrances with girls and boys over the doors, carved in stone.(literally) Of course none ever envisioned mixed schools...
Any gender of child alone with any gender of staff member can make accusations... so I don't really see any real difference.
Society and expectations. It might not be right but it is the reality. also providing contraceptives and sexual health services to girls is much more intimate that doing it for boys.
And by not discussing any of this openly society will not advance. I say this as having come back from a place where their are tv adverts for plan b and billboards saying abortion is murder... no one talks about it and you can opt your kids out for thier 1 hour presentation at age 15... mind you many of them believe murder and unmarried pregnancies are caused by a lack of Jesus
In regards to the emergency contraception thing.
If they managed to get themselves in the situation to need it, then they should be mature enough to deal with asking for it from a male.
Any gender of child alone with any gender of staff member can make accusations… so I don’t really see any real difference.
Wholeheartly this. It’s surely best practice to have a chaperone for any potentially iffy consultations in this day and age regardless of the gender or sexuality of patient or clinician. In a school environment this could be a TA or secretarial staff. It wouldn’t be hard.
Female staff do not need chaperones for dealing with most males . Male staff do with female patients. simple as that. Its for the staffs protection.
Hyponewt - you think putting a barrier of embarrassment in the way of providing emergency contraception is satisfactory? I do not
I love the ideals you guys are showing but I am talking about the actual practicalities. A male as a school nurse would be ineffective at best and would not be able to discharge their duties properly
Girls can soon get used to the fact that men can be nurses. It’s not like school kids are 60 years old with decades of expectations in their lives.
Well up to a point … it’s not like there is any/much point changing perceptions of geriatrics but it strikes me if someone didn’t want “darkies” or whatever quaint term treating them that would be totally unacceptable.
Of course, that’s surely so obvious we do not need to say it...
I think most people these days would be happy with a live body of any gender, given accessibility to NHS services. Seriously, gender would be of no issue whatsoever as far as I’m concerned.
i do feel for male midwives though. Great job from what I heard when they interviewed one on Radio 4. But think of the preconceptions
Yes patients are allowed to specify the sex of their nurses. As is right.
Really am I allowed to ask the sexual orientation of my health professional, thier religion and thier race.
Nope - just specify the sex of the healthcare professional. Nothing else.
how many young girls needing emergency contraception will be put off by having to talk to a man about it?
Not many TJ. Tens of thousands of young women around the country are perfectly happy going to male doctors and male pharmacists for the emergency contraceptive.
I know we've had bugs with the forum but I'd never thought I'd see TJ posting from the 1950s.
Nurse here 23 year plus, Now a recovery nurse practitioner, I look after everything one minute a child, next a woman, etc etc. I'm laughing at TJ's comments. We wouldn't be able to run theatres and recover if we had that mentality. We are very sensitive to people's wishes and dignity is paramount. When I started I use to laugh when asked "are you a male nurse"...
Wowsers! I keep visualising Carry on Doctor. Thankfully there's only one dinosaur here.
Are school nurses still a thing? Can't say we had one in my school.
When I wanted sexual health advice at that age I went to the local Brook Advisory Centre. It wouldn't have mattered a single jot to me whether I was spoken to by a male or female (and that was 20 years ago...).
Yes, more school nurses now. I work with one when she does a few shifts with us. Sadly it's not all about contraception and periods. A sad part is child protection and looked after children reviews. Makes nits a walk in the park. It sounds an amazing job. They're all very dedicated.
Yeah, no men as nurses and women shouldn't be senior management, lawyers, accounts, etc either because clients/customers/shareholders/peers will expect a man in the role. I really think some of you guys have no idea what these professional roles involve. A woman simply will not be able to do the job properly.
Or we can not be driven by outdated prejudices, instead promoting equality and deal with individual prejudice as it happens.
catnash - nurse of 40 years here. In that time attitudes have changed for sure. However you work in theatres - you are not am lone worker working with vulnerable children so its not comparable. You ever been a lone worker? I have and as a man its limiting
As I said above I admire your idealism however I am saying to the OP that those roles will be very frustrating as you will not be able to do large parts of the school nurse job without a chaperone. go for it if you want to but be aware there will be barriers to you doing the job some of which are insurmountable
So in an ideal world then go for it. In the real world be very wary. If you want to spend your working time fighting peoples prejudices then fine. But be aware that IMO as a school nurse you will be fighting this all the time.
TJ, I think there is a pretty big difference between being realistic in highlighting the possible barriers the OP will face and just flatly saying a man cannot possibly do that job at all.
Strangely enough school kids of today don't have the same outlook as old men posting on cycling forums, it's the individuals personality that matters and caring people can be in short supply especially if you disregard 50% of them on the basis of sex.
These are the same sort of arguments that were used d to keep women out of traditionally male jobs (i.e patients wouldn't want to have a female doctor or a woman can't be a police officer cos she is too small), so at least it's a sign of progress that we question that less and have moved on to questioning men doing women's jobs instead
Grahams - true. I never said a man cannot do the job tho. All I wanted to do was highlight the difficulties he would face in reality. and gave my opinions.
Trent steel its not the same arguments. Its an understand of what is practical. I am a nurse, I have been for 40 years. I have seen attitudes change greatly in that time. all I am saying is that there are considerable barriers to be accepted in those roles as a man. thats the reality
Grahams – true. I never said a man cannot do the job tho. All I wanted to do was highlight the difficulties he would face in reality. and gave my opinions.
I think if you had said something like "It will be a difficult career path as my experience suggests you will face a lot of prejudices, need constant chaperones" etc etc then your point might have been better received.
But what you actually said was: "School nursing women only. You will not be able to be properly effective as a school nurse.... you cannot do a large part of the job.. A man simply will not be able to do the job properly."
Which is a very different tone.
Was there not an IMO in there? point taken
TJ I dont work in theatres. Recovery,. Wards. ITU. Is my history.
lead nurse in one of my WIC in a major university city is male, and come freshers week when we start handing out morning after pills like sweeties, they don't seem to care he's a bloke.
Let's not forget contraception is not just the responsibility of girls, therefore the reverse may apply that some boys might prefer talking to a male.
Blimey TJ - you get something right and still cop it. STW is a funny old place
Blimey TJ - you get something right and still cop it. STW is a funny old place
Can someone explain to me what jobs a male school nurse would need a chaperone for that a female wouldn’t? If you need a chaperone your own gender is irrelevant. Women and men should be using chaperones.
Sounds like a great career choice: a role model for boys and girls.
Also, the concept that unless you are a women you can’t empathise is BS. Does that mean all midwives have to have children? Do doctors all have to have had all the conditions they treat? Of course not! It’s about training, experience and personal skills of listening and discussion. Frankly the patients don’t give a shit about their HCPs personal lives, they are the patient not you.
Good luck in your career. You sound like you have many skills you will bring to the role.
Hiya, quick update.
One day left at placement and have thoroughly enjoyed the whole experience.
Have been out with Health Visitors, attended several multi-disciplinary meetings, sat in on clinics with Nursery Nurses and been to drop in meetings and visits with School Nurses.
Only time it was considered inappropriate for me to attend was at a visit with a mother who is from the travelling community, which I completely understand.
Have received nothing but positive feedback from the dozens of other families I've attended. I was expecting much more negativity, tbh.
Very ethnically diverse community btw. The nicest comments I've received have been from the most unexpected sources, which I guess highlights my own prejudice.
Many thanks to everyone who has responded.
As I've said, lots more placements and training, but I've really found the past fortnight inspirational and will certainly consider this as a future career.
Thanks again.
