I just read this article in the Independent with some excitement.
I love wolves. Always have. But as a Canadian expat, I know what it is to have grown up using the woods in the knowledge that any number of dangerous animals could be watching you: wolves, coyotes, bears, lynx, etc.
The question is: as mtbers who use the UK’s woods, how do you feel about the potential re-population? Will it make you nervous when you’re out there?
Nope...I'm far too fast to be caught by wolves.
And even if I wasn't, I'd just ride with someone slower than me.
Nah, we already have cows.
As long as they have enough food to eat they should be OK. They are just angry dogs after all.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-europe-47330924
I've been attacked by 'domestic' dogs while riding in the UK. I don't see how a wolf would be any differet other than there will be more than one.
Nothing a small canister of pepper spray won't resolve if you keep moving.. If you're not a weak prey they'll lose interest. They tend to avoid humans unless desperate... But that begs the question, what will they eat normally if reintroduced? Ducks an deer? Lambs? Break into chicken sheds?
As a non-cyclist I do not wolves introduced to the UK nor, whilst I'm at it (lol), do I want sea eagles introduced to the Isle of Wight.
Go on then call me a spoilsport!
Not worried.
Wolves don't eat haggis,fact
SaxonRider curious as to how you went about your sporting activities with such a collection of wild animals around, what precautions did you take, were solo mountain bike rides out of the question? Thanks.
I think rewilding is a good idea, on the wolves front I can't see it happening south of the Highlands, although I hope it is investigated and considered. The wolves will need a food source like Red deer and territory to live in. I think there will be too much conflict in other areas of the UK.
I also saw an article about wild cat reintroduction in the south west where the habitats of coppices and hedge rows are perfect for the cats. It was a shame about the Lynx in Northumberland.
As for danger the wild boar (not carnivores but have a bad reputation) in FOD seem quite placid when left alone, even when they have young.
Edit: to answer the question, no as I don't think they will be re introduced to England. If they were, still no because the threat will not be that significant. If they did start eating unexpectedly high numbers of people I think they would be re extincted in the UK.
I think it is a good idea and should be done. Will change the way we ride probably by introducing another step of planning.
On a possible positive side it will hopefully keep those who can't stop skidding and tearing up the natural landscape to stick to trail centres for fear of meeting something that will stop them skidding.
Wolves are not going to be reintroduced. It's a non starter. No serious conservation organisation back it.
Even if they were they are scared of people so no issue for walkers or cyclists
Cinnamon girl - why no sea eagles? They are worth 5 million a year to the isle of mull in tourism and do not take livestock that is healthy. Magnificent birds. If only the hunting shooting fishing lot would stop killing them they would naturally spread all round the UK
It would make me ride more frequently in the hope that I'd see them.
Having spent time in the Canadian backcountry biking and hiking, it wasn’t something I was keen to do solo, although I did bike ride alone at times. Having not grown up in BC, I was very aware that I was no longer number 1 in the food chain, bear, wolf and mountain lion, not forgetting a cow moose with a calf - which was one of the more unnerving moments, possibly more than coming face to face with a Grizzly in Kananskis.
I found yodelling more effective than dinner bells 😉
Biking and hiking in the British Isles is a piece of cake comparably speaking and were any wolves to be reintroduced, I think they would be far enough away from me that I hold no concern 😉
Well I wouldn't carry pepper spray, but I might ride a bit faster if I saw them following me.
Cinnamon girl – why no sea eagles? They are worth 5 million a year to the isle of mull in tourism and do not take livestock that is healthy. Magnificent birds. If only the hunting shooting fishing lot would stop killing them they would naturally spread all round the UK
tj - firstly I really do struggle with the concept of creatures being introduced in order to provide theme-park entertainment for the public. Secondly, there was on i-player I think a program about sea eagles where pro-sea eagle campaigners and residents of a tiny island off the coast of Skye were interviewed. The residents were crofters, eeking out a barely sustainable living with sheep. Apparently they would normally expect 75% of their lambs to survive each year but since the arrival of sea eagles this has reduced to 50%. They were losing half of the lambs meaning a huge financial hit year after year and it was becoming unsustainable as obviously nobody reimburses or compensates them. Dead lambs were shown and not a pretty sight, no question it was sea eagles who'd killed them.
To me this seems all wrong. Should these crofters abandon their way of life? Why should they, they've been crofting for donkey's years? Crofting is a tradition in Scotland and obviously a very hard life especially with variable weather conditions. Are the sea eagles more important than the crofters? I don't know whether any other crofters or farmers are affected by these birds but surely there's a good chance it will happen elsewhere.
I get that it's bringing in money and providing jobs but at the expense of others trying to make a living from the land? Doesn't sit well with me at all.
Hmmmm.. @cg, I see where you’re coming from but it kinda smacks of the arrogance of ‘man’. The one race of people, the First Nations of North America took it as their responsibility, for their own survival, to maintain the balance of them, nature and thei environment.
Unfortunately, the Northern Europeans came along with a much more self important approach to the planet.
YMMV
Sea eagles do not take many if any lambs - apart from sickly ones or dead ones. Thats a simple observed fact. There are not enough sea eagles to cause that much predation anyway. More likely to be predation from other sources and if the eagles had taken them then there would be no body to be found.
Sea eagles were only wiped out relatively recently in the UK less than 100yrs ago IIRC.
https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/sea-eagles-not-taking-lambs-to-slaughter-1-781555
Christ wolves, look at the fuss when farmers were told to stop shooting crows!!!!
Considering most of these species were here before us and we removed them, it does seem a rather selfish viewpoint to say they shouldn't be here.
However, I'm not disregarding the opinion as it isn't unique and does show concerns rather than just a simple No as I don't like them answer.
The silence of the outcry of gamekeepers allegedly taking out other birds of prey (allegedly) is deafening too.
Why not? We all wear baggies. Or is this thread not about Black Country football teams?
It’s not really an issue.
It's strange what people's perceptions are. SaxonRider includes coyotes and lynx in the list but I struggle to believe that animals that small can pose any significant risk to humans.
The one animal that that is probably the number one predator on humans rarely makes the list. I can't think of any animal other than crocodiles for whom humans would be a perfectly natural part of their diet. And yet crocodiles are rarely the first animal that people think of when asked about animals dangerous to humans.
Certainly pumas and bears pose a real risk to humans in North America but I suspect that the risk is probably over stated. Specially in the case of bears.
Wolves have over the centuries evolved to have a deep fear of humans, it's only those that have survived.
If they are ever reintroduced into the UK I really wouldn't worry, cows will still be the animal most likely to kill you.
Avoid wearing a red hoodie whilst riding the trails, not because of the big bad wolf, but because it'd make look like a ****.
I've always found this video to be interesting and pretty good at convincing me that reintroduction would be a good thing.
Yup they've learnt their lesson about getting too close.
The silence of the outcry of gamekeepers allegedly taking out other birds of prey (allegedly) is deafening too.
Its not silence up here and there is no allegedly about it. Its well proven. 30% of all raptors meat an early death at the hands of the hunting shooting fishing community
We are awaiting the results of the werritty report into the action that the scots government will take. this is on the back of the proven raptor persecution.
http://www.scottishraptorstudygroup.org/persecution.html
I don’t see how a wolf would be any differet other than there will be more than one.
Dogs are just belligerent, wolves are out to hunt and kill.
Re eagles, crofting is indeed a tradition in Scotland, but so are sea eagles.
firstly I really do struggle with the concept of creatures being introduced in order to provide theme-park entertainment for the public.
That's not it. If that were the goal there'd just be a safari park. Wolves should be a part of the British landscape, and they're not because we've ****ed it up. Rewilding is an attempt to get back some of the beauty and wonder that we've lost. In fact you could argue that by sanitising our landscape and removing anything inconvenient what we currently have is more of a theme park. Also, reintroducing a proper functioning food chain has a hugely beneficial effect on the ecosystems. I've read that bears eating salmon at the heads of rivers and then shitting is the key final link in a nutrient cycle, bringing nutrients back up into the mountains from the sea. Also, have a Google for the effects of reintroducing wolves into Yellowstone. The knock on effects were hugely positive for biodiversity and habitat quality.
Re the OP, I would not ride differently no, cos I know how rare attacks are. I would be far more concerned about bears.
Sea eagles do not take many if any lambs – apart from sickly ones or dead ones. Thats a simple observed fact. There are not enough sea eagles to cause that much predation anyway. More likely to be predation from other sources and if the eagles had taken them then there would be no body to be found.
On Countryfile a couple of weeks ago they showed footage of a lamb being carried through the air by a sea eagle. It was screaming and struggling so clearly alive. There was also footage of an eagle being scared off a corpse on which it was feeding. IIRC there was some stat from the farmers about the increased losses since the eagles returned - far more than could be co-incidental. I'm not against sea eagles being re-introduced in the IOW but the damaged to farmers must be considered.
As for Wolves and Lynx etc, well the conservationist at the Highland Wildlife Park was very against it on the basis that they would be sharing habitat with the Scottish Wildcat very much hastening their demise.
We have irreversibly changed the habitats across the UK and whilst it would be great to turn the clock back 200 years, we need to be very, very careful with further mucking around with our ecosystems.
It does rather beg the question cinnamon_girl, was it OK to wipe out sea-eagles in the first place because they were interfering with farming activities?
An interesting topic and one that I'm no stranger to.
Next month I'll be back in Michigan seeing the family and will be heading to the UP for a few days riding, where both wolves and black bears roam.
I've a 'Timber' brand bear bell which I fit to my bike when riding in Michigan, which makes enough racket to let wildlife know I'm around, but I also carry a Kahr CW45 in a shoulder holster just in case. The chance of being attacked by wildlife is incredibly slim though.
Apparently they would normally expect 75% of their lambs to survive each year but since the arrival of sea eagles this has reduced to 50%. They were losing half of the lambs meaning a huge financial hit year after year and it was becoming unsustainable as obviously nobody reimburses or compensates them. Dead lambs were shown and not a pretty sight, no question it was sea eagles who’d killed them.
Killed, but not eaten? Not sure the whole picture is being revealed there.
It certainly is not!
The science is clear. Sea eagles are not a significant predator of lambs. They would not kill a lamb and leave it.
Definitely. I would only ride with those who are slower than me.
I was attacked& bitten by two dogs whilst riding last year.Scared the bejesus out of me. So it’s a no from me.
A number of points to make in this thread
* Wolves are ****ing huge! Ever seen one up close? They are the size of a big Irish wolfhound. It wouldn't be like getting nipped by next doors Springer Spaniel called Dennis.
* Rewilding is more than just a "zoo" for humans, it's about producing habitat that contributes to our share in the reduction of our impact on this planet. Why is it okay to ask Brazil to stop deforestation to save the planet, yet our ecosystem has been stripped naked?
* Cinnamongirl, in regards to the Sea Eagles - we have to be seen to be doing something to protect or reintroduce our own species unless we want to be accused of hypocrisy on the international stage. Does the ivory trade bother you?
* On the topic of Canada and America, a lot of hikers and mountain bikers carry .357 and above revolvers, deaths are rare but actual incidents are not that rare. So perhaps some though needs to be given as to whether we are happy either having more firearms or accepting an increased risk in the wild.
Oh and Drac - that picture is brilliant - just brilliant.
No.
The risk of attack from a wolf is miniscule. You are in much more danger of falling off and killing yourself or being involved in a collision with a motor vehicle.
Drac wins todays internet.
I've ridden in arctic Finland in winter on my own for days on end - there are plenty of wild wolves, but there are also plenty of reindeer. Even people who spent lots of time there rarely see one. There are far more worrying things like not dying of cold to think about and if I did die, I wouldn't care less if I did end up on the menu.
Back to wolves. the main reason it will never happen is that there is no suitable habitat for them in large enough chunks. If they were moving in overland as has happened on the mainland then its differnt - you have to manage the animals. But to reintroduce them into a country with no suitable large tracts of habitat would be foolish at best
The whole of scotland is only 8 times the size of yellowstone. That includes the central belt and the lowlands.
The guy at atterdale ( I think thats the estate) that wanted to reintroduce wolves wanted to fence off a large tract of land to keep them in knowing full well that without fencing they would move. Attadale I went thru last year. Its very nice in some ways but its a park not wild land.
Even the most fervent advocates for wolf reintroduction accept that they need to be contained in fencing - and of course fencing causes its own issues. NO mainstream conservation organisation supports wolf reintroduction
TJ there are wolves in the Netherlands. That's one of the most densely populated countries in the world.
(not to suggest I disagree with your summary otherwise).
it will never happen
I agree with TJ. Bit of a wacky idea that keeps getting trotted out by gullible sections of the media.
scotroutes - its different when they move in of their own accord, actively bringing makes those who bring them in responsible for the actions of the wolves. I very much doubt those wolves will be there in a few years - a lot of controversy in the netherlands about them and my bet is they will end up being removed one way or another.
The netherlands is having a bit of a crisis / national debate about rewilding and land management at the moment and my bet is it ends with the wolves being removed
I could be 100m from a wolf right now. Cycling in the Veluwe national park in Netherlands and wolves have been sighted here last week.
Totally awesome in my opinion.
Wolves are coming back to the mountains round here (central Spain/Madrid), a pack's already been spotted about 30km from where I regularly run and ride... but the key thing is the word "spotted" - they're not like the boar or mountain goats which are pretty easy to see, they're skittish animals that avoid human contact as much as possible.
The one race of people, the First Nations of North America took it as their responsibility, for their own survival, to maintain the balance of them, nature and thei environment.
And this is bollocks. Humans turned up on the north American continent, fauna went extinct.
