Long story short - the brick-built porch on the front of our 30 year old house has developed humungous cracks in the internal and external walls (rest of the house is absolutely fine). The couple of builders we've had out, reckon there's a good chance there were inadequate foundations for it (although this might have complied with building regs at the time). If we can find out what they were and it turns out they didn't comply with them, would we have a shot at getting any kind of recompense from them?
Seems like a bit of a long shot, but this will easily run to several thousand £'s to get rebuilt (which is what the builders have said - they've both gone away to do us a quote), so we'll either be faced with getting a loan out to cover it, look to house insurance (although will it forever red-flag us with subsidence issues and affect getting insurance or even selling the house insurance?) or maybe go down the road of pursuing the builder if it was an original building defect?
Wondering if anyone has done anything similar with regards pursuing a builder this far after the event?
Mate, you are having a laugh aren't you?
The new house NHBC cert is barely worth the paper its written, so in your case...
Save your money for underpinning and/or rebuild.
How big is it BTW?
even shorter answer
NO
Sounds pretty crazy, but then so does spending several thousands on fixing the current one. How big is it?
We did think it was a long shot. Curious that the building industry seems exempt from any professional liability.
So, next question, can anyone recommend a trust worthy builder near j26 of the M1?
Porch in question is single storey, pitched roof about 5ft x 4 ft. Basically only big enough to open the front door into. On the side opposite the front door is a cupboard containing phone gas and electricity.
30 years.! My french car is disintegrating around my ears after only half of that time. I'm off to the pug factory to have a word.
Err have you got two log ins?
12 year limit generally for liability, I think.
Don't worry about subsidence - if it's underpinned it shouldn't affect your insurance. Speak to your insurance provider ASAP.
As I understand it unless there's a criminal standard of negligence involved any liability under contract lasts 12 years. So no.
Don't know enough about your case but so much can change in 30 years, its not uncommon for the new building to have unexpected consequences on below ground drainage of water which can result in problems further down the line.
If the house was signed off by Building Control someone at the council must have been out to inspect the excavations before any concrete was poured so someone must have thought the excavation was adequate
2 log ins - busted
Sorry for the confusion – I is the wifelet. Onzadog is the Man of the House (with the crumbling porch)
oops
Yes, of course...
Hoisted and petard are two words that come to mind.
Nope, single log in, just two singletrackers in the same house (with the porch falling off).
2 log ins - busted
If I was the OP I'd be hoping this thread disappears off the front page before a mod sees it 🙂
f I was the OP I'd be hoping this thread disappears off the front page before a mod sees it
Nope we've spotted this before and it's 2 different people.
Have you ever seen them in the same room together?
Have you ever seen them in the same room together?
Don't spread rumours like that.
Quick bit of stalking...
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/any-stw-relationships/page/4#post-4525009 ]Turns out they are different people.[/url]
OP, please accept my apologies. 🙂
Two singletrackers in one house, how is the Internet still working..!!
Neighbours had a porch built for 2k. Pitched roof, upvc doubleglazed windows and door.
He did his own floor to save abit of cash.
If you can do some of the work you'll save a bit..
Porch in question is single storey, pitched roof about 5ft x 4 ft.
+
several thousand £'s to get rebuilt (which is what the builders have said - they've both gone away to [s]do us a quote[/s] laugh at us behind our backs)
Rebuild it? Really?
Sounds like a bit of settlement if it's taken 30 years to happen.
How long have the cracks taken to develop and how big are they (pics)?
have bricks cracked or does the crack follow the joints?
Rather than knocking it down and rebuilding I'd wait until it's stopped moving (measure the cracks for a period of time) then have them repaired once they've stopped.
Our house had an extension built about 25 years ago and 5 years ago a scary internal vertical crack appeared going the entire height of the house where the extension met the original house.
I pointed it out to my [architect] dad and he went 'meh, settlement' and walked away. We left it a while then filled the crack and it's never reappeared. The reason was possibly becasue we had moved the septic tank and part of the garden that was probably the soakaway had dried out more than usual.
So to summarise - leave it and see what happens (it's only a little porch, it's not going to pull the house down). That said I'm not a builder, but my FIL is 🙂
You could just see the cracks along the joint lines when we moved in about 6 years ago. Now, the gaps are about 10mm in places. Some bricks at the bottom have cracked. Movement/settlement seems to have been greater in the last 5 years than the previous 25 which worries us a bit.
Maybe I can track down Wrightyson and ask him to quote. He's not far from me is he?
You could just see the cracks along the joint lines when we moved in about 6 years ago. Now, the gaps are about 10mm in places.
Right, as you were - sounds more than just a bit of settlement.
Multiple £1,000s for a rebuild sounds wrong though.
Have you landscapes the garden or planted anything water hungry nearby. Or even your neighbours? Is the downpipe/gutter leaking. Etc etc. Things don't generally move on their own. Esp not after 30 years. You do realise its been bloody wet for a year now. This may have an impact.
I'd be amazed if you could find the builder let alone claim. You would be laughed at by every solicitor too. Maybe go and ask a few. If nothing else it will create a little bit of fun in this miserable wet and cold day.
If I had thousands of pounds to spare, I would demolish the porch and buy a new motorbike. Who needs a porch anyway ?
We've not got it spare, that's why we were wondering if we had any recourse against theoriginal builder who, if iit is naff foundations, has got away with doing half a job, or maybe even the surveyor who the mortgage company said we had to have before we bought it. If it wasn't for the cost of moving utilities, we might well do without it.
If it must come down would replacing with a half glazed conservatory be cheaper? Plus the foundations wouldn't need to be as Substantial?
Are you 100% sure it's the porch subsiding away from the house and not the other way round......
was the porch part of the original build or added at a later date. was it actualy built by the house builder. is it on the original plan. if not it may not have needed planing permision (ie) no building regs
Wrightyson, please don't say that! The porch is original, lots of the estate has them. Think they were just build like an after thought.
10mm doesn't sound like much to me. Can't you just fill the cracks? I'd want to know it had stopped moving before I did anything more permanent/expensive. I'd still investigate underpinning and fill/refurb rather than take down/rebuild.
If there was little movement for 25 years then a lot I'd be looking for a cause such as a leaky drain/water-pipe/downpipe. If there is an issue then you'll want to get that fixed first and hopefully it'll halt the movement as well.
After the wet year, it could be heave instead of subsidence. See if the cracks close in the hot dry summer we're about to have
The main thing I'd be worried about with 10mm of subsidence is whether it's affecting the gas pipe - otherwise, if it still seems stable, it's probably OK.
Given that 'lots of the estate have them', if the others are OK, it's unlikely to be substandard design or construction - more likely to be unforseen ground conditions or heave/shrinkage. Where in the county are you?
this is not professional advise from me, but 30 years ago no claim against original builder limitation period on disputes 7 years (12 is for land claims) moved in 6 years ago claim vs your vendor if knew of a defect and failed to discliose in pre contract inquirys or against your surveyor. But you will need to show the fault was known or should have been spoted then. my off tghe cuff advise would be this is one of those things and any legal action would not be cost effective.
My mum and dads house setled and developed cracks of some size. This was at least 50 years after they were built after a couple of years measuring the movement stopped and thay filled them. They have not come back in the last 30 years .
Thing is, how to we find the cause without digging under it?
No other [big] cracks in the house? I'd certainly suspect drains, especially ones taking the rainwater from the roof.
More rain in the last 12 months would mean a leaking drain would leak more, so more erosion. If there is a downspout near the porch that would be my main suspect. Other than digging them up the only other way to check is to have a camera run though.
The foundations would be the same as for the rest of the house and would have had to pass building reg inspection (you would have hoped, unless estates are treated differently to one off builds).
Rest of the house is fine. There is a down pipe on the porch but that only serves to remove rain water from the pitch on the porch itself. The down pipes for the main pitch are on the other two sides. The front garden and driveway don't show any signs of sinking and the established tree nearby hasn't cause any bumps in the parking area let alone breached the tarmac.
I know the house and porch should be on the same foundation. However, what should have been done and what was done might be two different things.
We found out after we moved in, that the doors are a bit narrower than normal. Apparently, it was to stop the contractors stealing them. If they were watching the pennies that carefully, I can easily see the single storey porch getting a less Su stantial foundation than the main house.
Getting a camera down the drains might be useful though.