[Closed] would someone who'd never heard music be able to tell when a piece was sad etc ?

All to do with the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_third ]minor 3rd[/url].

Apparently, this [i]musical[/i] shift in intonation is the same shift we make when we speak and are sad.

So yes, innate.

Did you listen to Infinite Monkey Cage this week?

Funny you should mention this, but there was a program on the radio last night covering this exact thing.
I think it said that it was a believed to be a learnt response.
Wasn't listening properly but it sounded interesting so might be worth trying.
roughly 13 mins in.
[url] http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0183tlt [/url]

yes iirc they did some experiments with this with tribes people

Some expressions were also universal - surprise, joy, and some other stuff.

Smells were not - most think rotting veg smell is unpleasant but some people make food this way an dlike it - I forget who these cultures were.

Those pesky Koreans like rotten cabbage.

Some reckon we're hardwired to like consonant, harmonious tunes, even as little people...

http://www.greenwych.ca/babies.htm

[url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Musicophilia-Tales-Music-Oliver-Sacks/dp/0330523597/ ]Yes[/url]. At least, that's what I remember taking from the book!

Ah yes, my boy said "Why is the music so sad" when watching films very early on.

'Empty Cans' by The Streets is a great example of this. The first half of the track is all minor chords and downbeat in tone (lyrically also). Second half of the song is composed of the same chords only major rather than minor. At this point a wave of euphoria washes over me. A great end to a brilliant record.

In the Infinate Monkey cage program (liked above) the point made was that minor chords are melancholic in western music but can be quite celebratory in other cultures (all be it with a different tempo) - so that suggests its more cultural than instinctive.

Definitely learned. My 4 month old son finds evil drum and bass hilarious.

All to do with the minor 3rd.

Apparently, this musical shift in intonation is the same shift we make when we speak and are sad.

So yes, innate.

Correct, but not quite the full story.

Just spoke to my lecturer who wrote the article all about chords for Sound on Sound a month or so ago, and she said it's to do with Dissonance. Basically, in a major chord, all the notes played have frequencies that are mathematically linked by multiples or factors there of. For instance, if you play an A below middle C which is 440Hz, then you can also play the A an octave above (at 880Hz, 2x the frequency), the E in the octave above (1320Hz, 3x the frequency), the A 2 octaves above (1760Hz, 4x the frequency), the C 2 octaves above (2200Hz, 5x the frequency) and so on... Or therabouts, I might be a note out here or there, but the principle is what counts...

A Minor chord has a note in it that cannot be mathematically linked in any way. A bit like the way Singlespeeders often run a 32:16, 34:17, or a 36:18 for a perfect 2:1 ratio. But if they ran a 32:17 or 36:19 for instance, they would be dissonant because they don't share any immediate multiples.

So in a major chord, each note plays in harmony, whereas in a minor, one note is out of harmony. And it is this that makes it sound "sad" to us, though as quite correctly pointed out, it is a learned response... Something we become used to through exposure to sound.

Definitely learned. My 4 month old son finds evil drum and bass hilarious.

Excellent, start em young! 😀

Though it could also just be that the Drum & Bass you are playing him is all in major chords!

D minor is the saddest of all keys, especially when you play Lick my Love Pump.

"it goes like this the fourth the fifth, the minor fall the major lift..."

Junkyard - Member
Smells were not

Not so for puke, poo, aversions to these keep yer healthy.