[Closed] World's richest 85 people = same wealth as 3.5 billion of poorest

Nothing to do with cheerleading - I will leave that to those who try to suggest that rising income inequality is driven by economic model or politics. It isn't.

FWIW, since 2000 the fastest increase in income inequality in the OECD has been in the Nordics (and Germany). You can guess the source.

Plus there is nothing new about income inequality.

Try

http://www.amazon.com/The-Haves-Have-Nots-Idiosyncratic-Inequality/dp/0465031412

It's fun! He is a specialist on the topic and a witty writer.

JHJ, well you seem to be suggesting that in the UK since the crisis that the rich have got richer and the poorer have got poorer. Just checking if that is what you mean?

Plus there is nothing new about income inequality.

Who said there was? Does that make it a good thing?

Why has income inequality increased in the Nordic countries? What are they doing wrong?

FWIW, since 2000 the fastest increase in income inequality in the OECD has been in the Nordics

Which have generally speaking moved to the right and pursued less wealth-redistributing policies at around the same time. But of course these things couldn't possibly be related. 😕

rich have got richer and the poorer have got poorer.

Before he answers perhaps you should clarify what parameters you're using to measure wealth and poverty. One assumes you have a statistic lined up for a "yes" answer.

Still waiting for a STWer to help balance the inequality of wealth by giving me a bike... 😕

Still waiting for a STWer to help balance the inequality of wealth by giving me a bike...

You were here begging for one before weren't you? I wonder why no one wanted to give you one.

JHJ, well you seem to be suggesting that in the UK since the crisis that the rich have got richer and the poorer have got poorer. Just checking if that is what you mean?

My main suggestion is essentially down to the concept that there are some very bad and deceptive people in this world, who pretend to be good, yet shit on the rest of us, that we may do their dirty work and the stinking lumps they deposit from their battyholes for us to clean up have been becoming more putrid and frequent of late...

Imagine a composite of something like this:

[img] [/img]

with something like this:

[img] [/img]
and include the words 'Whore of Babylon'

Oh I see.

deadlydarcy - Member
Btw, the thread was about world inequality.

Cheers deadly, I had clearly forgotten that in my first post.

teamhurtmore - Member
Since 2008, [b]levels of global inequality [/b]between nations rather than iside them has also decreased for the first time since the mid 19C...

Are China, Russia and Brazil also not global enough for you? Tut, tut, I will try harder next time. Apologies.

I will try harder next time.

You could by showing some figures to back up your claims when asked. Rather than just asking a question back. Also, why are Nordic countries' levels of inequality rising?

Apologies.

No need. Just try harder. That will show your contrition.

deadlydarcy - Member

You were here begging for one before weren't you?

Not begging, merely offering an opportunity to redistribute wealth.

I wonder why no one wanted to give you one.

Because people who call for a redistribution of wealth are either those that would benefit, or utter ****ing hypocrites.

Feel free to prove me wrong... 😉

xxx

Sleep well

(P.S. Was happy to until grum's silliness. Couldn't be bothered after that.)

Feel free to prove me wrong...

I'm not that particularly bothered Spongey. You only appear here every so often, usually to have a go at people...maybe that's why nobody wants to give you a bike. I've seen lots of examples here of more deserving cases getting offered free parts for a bike build either for themselves, a less well off friend or charity. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you though.

Not begging, merely offering an opportunity to redistribute wealth.

Isn't that what beggars are doing though? So, yeah, you're begging. Again. And I suspect nobody will offer you a bike this time either. You never know though...beggars wouldn't persist unless there was some chance of success I suppose.

this is an interesting ted talk on wealth inequality, trickle down economics, taxing the rich etc. not from a guy in a homemade hair shirt but a venture capatalist who sold a business for a few billion dollars. worth 5 mins of your time i think

Sleep well

(P.S. Was happy too until grum's silliness. Couldn't be bothered after that.)

Don't take it all too seriously thm. You dole it out when you want to. You have to take some back every so often too from time to time. At least JY is either at work or bed so your shins are safe this evening.

I don't. It makes me laugh.

xxx

I'm not that particularly bothered Spongey.

Ho ho! You've addressed me by a name that isn't mine!
Well done, have a biscuit.

You only appear here every so often, usually to have a go at people...

I read the forum all the time, I don't post much but have a low tolerance for bullshitters.

maybe that's why nobody wants to give you a bike.

I've already underlined the reason for that.

Isn't that what beggars are doing though? So, yeah, you're begging.

Beggars have an expectation, I don't. If I thought that any of the rather comfortably well off posters here would entertain the idea of giving me a bike I would not have suggested it.

And despite not pretending to be a socialist, I've given approx a third of my last years wages to people less fortunate than myself.

That's enough about me though, let's talk about you.
So are you one that would benefit, one of the hypocrites, or one of the mythical other...? 🙂

What was my silliness? 😕

If I thought

would

I would not have suggested it

So an entirely useless unhelpful post. Staying true to form.

I've given approx a third of my last years wages to people less fortunate than myself.

We have only your word* for that. Can you back it up with figures? A graph? Spreadsheet? 🙂

*e.g. I don't believe you.

I think there are rather more deserving causes than getting you a new bike sbob.

At least JY is either at work or bed so your shins are safe this evening.

Some recent threads have reminded me of the global importance of a solution to this scourge we are facing... look at the long game; if FTSE company directors, MPs and Royalty continue getting pay rises and this trend is a global phenomenon amongst the elite, whilst the economy remains dormant due to the necessity of minimal interest rates to avoid debt collapse, where will we be in 10, 15, 20 years? How about our Grandkids in 50 years?

This affects everyone...

And despite not pretending to be a socialist, I've given approx a third of my last years wages to people less fortunate than myself.

You do know that income tax doesn't get spent solely on benefits? 😀

Kerching. "Triple word score."

Does that make it a good thing?

No, DD, of course addressing income inequality is important, critically so. That is why it is important to identifying the correct causes, so that you can implement the correct solutions. Labelling the cause as simply a particular economic model is inaccurate and unhelpful.

When you say "particular economic model", do you mean the various versions of "free"-market capitalism with varying degrees of state intervention? (Genuine question...not trying to wind you up). Is or has there been a model that has led to less inequality within that system alone?

Income inequality has risen and fallen in countries with very similar economic models. Hence, I do not believe that the economic model per se is the main contribution factor. There are some country specific factors that play an big part in global stats - Russian being a good example - and it is difficult to extrapolate what happens there to let's say Denmark. * Equally, there are specific factors in BZ where income inequality has been falling.

In most studies there a number of common themes/factors that have reasonably broad applicability and I have hinted at the source. Easy to google. Equally the other book I linked to (from a World Bank economist) takes a more radical approach and argues (1) there is nothing new about income inequality (true), (2) until (relatively) recently it had been declining (in economic history terms) and (3) there are only two factors that are important - I will let you read what those are. BTW his analysis is not completely accepted by his colleagues.

* but rising inequality in Russia and China, partly offset by Bz, has an important impact on global income inequality stats due the relative size of the population and the economy. Conversely what happens in Luxembourg hardly shows up.

Labelling the cause as simply a particular economic model is inaccurate and unhelpful.

How much more unfair does it need to be for you to think it may be part of the problem?

Income inequality has risen and fallen in countries with very similar economic models. Hence, I do not believe that the economic model per se is the main contribution factor

until (relatively) recently it had been declining (in economic history terms)

Its a long slow walk to equality but capitalism is nto part fo the ultimate solution to this but it is not as bad as the King owning everything and us working for tokens to spend in their shops.

Income inequality has risen and fallen in countries with very similar economic models

I suppose this needs a timescale, and the countries involved. Also, I suspect it's risen between too inequal, very inequal, inequal-but-everyone-spending-on-a-credit-boom-so-nobody-gives-a-shit, horribly inequal, and lots of other varying degrees of inequality.

I ask again, not just at thm, has there been a post-industrial revolution model which has led to low inequality across the population of any given state?

Its a long slow walk

Kinda like a [i]Long March[/i] doncha mean JY? 😆

deadly, Income inequality fell broadly from the mid to late 19C/early 20C to the mid 70s globally. During that period there were a range of economic models of various degrees of success and longevity.

As highlighted above there have been different trends more recently with the same economic models and the same trends with different models.

Hence, the need to focus on more relevant factors. Ever wondered why I get involved in education threads for example.

So deadly by now I assume that you have looked at US inequality trends, when they peaked (late 20s), when they stayed broadly similar (late 40s-mid/late70s) and when they rose again (70s-08)

Ditto Latin America with it's very different economic models. Income inequality fell across LatAm since 2000. Is that precise enough?

You will of course be aware that income inequality in the UK has narrowed fortunately since 2007. Of course, it would be churlish and inaccurate to draw any correlation between that fact and the party in power. Mere coincidence.

income inequality

I'll be honest here and say that I don't trust the income figures, especially those of the highest earners. I'm more interested in wealth inequality - at least the wealth that the wealthy are willing to tell the rest of us plebs that they have anyway. 🙂

Income inequality [i]within[/i] a country is a bit different to global inequality though, surely.
How many of those 3.5 billion live in the same country as those 85 I wonder.

You would be sensible in that respect deadly. Capturing the "real income" at either end of the spectrum presents it's challenges.

But the standard measure - gini coefficient - is broader than just what we (might normally) think of as income.

AS, I think the analysis of income inequality between countries is arguably more interesting than within. The book I highlighted concludes that "where you live" explains 80% of the difference but that figure is the subject of some considerable debate.

gini coefficient

I'm just reading an OECD report where they talk about the gini coefficient. It's riveting stuff. 😀

Interesting to see where Brazil lies though and that the Nordic countries are still in the bottom ten (could be wrong where Norway is concerned...perhaps eleventh). And sad to see how high the USA is. It's not news but it shouldn't be so.

Kinda like a Long March doncha mean JY?

the need to focus on more relevant factors

it would be churlish and inaccurate to draw any correlation between that fact and the party in power. Mere coincidence.

It would be a downright lie, and you know it,to suggest Tory policies have led to this by design
IIRC the two main factors were [ ignoring the slump]
1. Increased rate of income tax - implemented by labour and reduced by Tories
2.The Lib Dem threshold increase for tax rates

Yes labour were appalling for this.
The slump is also interesting as well as it also means poverty has reduced despite people being less well off - its due to it being calculated as % of mean income and if this falls then poverty falls even if no one in poverty has any more money. Statistics eh.

INRAT

Can someone offer a synopsis?

Deadly, glad you are enjoying it!!! Of course, the absolute level of income inequality in Brazil remains too high. There is no denying that. If you are genuinely interesting in it, there is a lot of work done on the role and impact of education (have I mentioned that before) in BZ*. On a slightly more contentious point, the impact of family structure gets a lot of air-time on this topic, but to introduce that here, would really be asking for trouble!!!!!

Don't you just love a misread!!! 😉

* google the wonderfully named Nora Lustig.

Fro whoppit
Capitalims is bad
Not its not - look it made us all wealthy
yes it is - look it made us all unequal
DD and THM actually debate with stats and stuff

Are the current levels of industrial plunder of the planet on which we live (and the only accessible habitable planet that we are aware of) sustainable, without detriment to future generations and other species?

All profit is derived from resource, be it natural, human, creative or otherwise;

Pick a P...

In terms of priority, what comes 1st:

Profit, People or Planet

85 people = same wealth as 3.5 billion is FANTASTIC news!

piedi di formaggio - let's celebrate!
I quite enjoyed her initial stunned silence

I particularly liked the "I just have to pull up my socks, Oh!! I don't have any socks"

and "Let me tell you later what you should say to this"

I thought this was funny on another news piece related to this.

[i]"When we asked Americans if they were part of the nation’s top one-percent of money-makers, 13% said yes."[/i]

But it also goes to further illustrate just how hard it is for the human brain to perceive these amounts.