Forum menu
Where's the hope?
– why make people work longer when part of the issue can be solved through reduced tax avoidance, getting ill people better quicker and therefore paying tax, spending taxpayer money responsibly, reducing the wealth tied up in housing etc etc.
As far as I’m aware it’s not just about the cost, it’s actually about having enough people in the workforce, which can’t be solved through increased taxation.
Well as taking up jobs that younger people could do, working at 71 for many in physical jobs or those that require quick decision making while under huge amounts of stress is ridiculous to think it’s ok
unemployment is currently at an all time low, and more people in employement will drive more job creation, so I'm not sure "taking up jobs" is a big issue.
There are plenty of low-skill, low-stress, low-physical-effort jobs around that pay more than the state pension. Checkout assistant, driver, browsing singletrackworld it middle management
I'm a teacher, well a faculty head now, at 53 I'm going to bite the bullet and go at 60. No way can I see my going longer. I might be able to wangle a side enterprise but if not it'll be own brand beans and scouring the countryside for firewood. Actually if all parents have gone by then it's off to Europe to retire.
The youngsters need to start voting to stop all the chushty retired Tory voters messing everything up for the rest of us.
I'm certainly not working past 67, probably earlier TBH.
All the work-based pensions I have been diligently paying into for decades don't start paying until state retirement age. I'm going to be very upset if I've paid all that money through the years and the goalposts get moved yet again.
Where’s the hope?
It’s the hope that kills you, so probably best to do away with all that nonsense
There are plenty of low-skill, low-stress, low-physical-effort jobs around that pay more than the state pension. Checkout assistant, driver,
Well done for naming two jobs that AI will likely ruin.
Got any more utopian ideal jobs for the elderly.
Perhaps all those who've maxed out their private pension could start making payments into the state pot, maybe in exchange for a 1:1 increase in private pot.
When people (me) have been paying a not insubstantial amount of NI, which is supposed, in part, to be for the state pension, it’s a bit of a bitter pill for the goalposts to keep moving until they’re beyond reach.
Hmmm. The key thing to remember is that your NI is not for your pension.... It's for all the lucky basturds who have already retired.
Where’s the rope?
FTFY 😩
Or perhaps people who've maxed out their private pot should have state pension eligibility removed.
and doing jobs which are sedentary in nature
I don’t really see what that has to do with anything tbh.
Here's your answer...
Actuarial fairness is considered a key aspect of a just pension system
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2021.675618/full
Comes up a lot..
https://www.cnbc.com/2010/10/20/should-retirement-age-be-based-on-work-type.html
https://www.ft.com/content/9f639718-1db7-11e0-aa88-00144feab49a
Hmmm. The key thing to remember is that your NI is not for your pension…. It’s for all the lucky basturds who have already retired.
Yes. I get that. I don't think that changes the point.
Or perhaps people who’ve maxed out their private pot should have state pension eligibility removed.
makes it hard to justify paying NI all those years
It also disincentives people to save, thus putting more burden on the state. Bit like Death Duty, only the top few % pay it, but everyone worries it will affect them..
Will the demographic imbalance will be reduced somewhat as we boomers die out?
Will the demographic imbalance will be reduced somewhat as we boomers die out?
I assume that's all modelled in.
The current problem is nearly 3m people off work on NHS waiting lists, plus falling birth rates plus reducing immigration. It's almost like the Tories are trying to engineer the collapse of the state pension and tank the economy at the same time.
As far as I’m aware it’s not just about the cost, it’s actually about having enough people in the workforce, which can’t be solved through increased taxation.
If only we had an agreement where we could have recruited more people into the workforce from our close neighbours. We could call it something like 'freedom of movement' or something similar, maybe make it part of a political union to the benefit of all members?
As far as I’m aware it’s not just about the cost, it’s actually about having enough people in the workforce, which can’t be solved through increased taxation
I’ll probably pull a sickie.
Spent the day today pulling cables in and my finger/thumb joints are borked.
If there’s an NHS in 20 plus years time maybe they’ll have a cure for arthritis.
I’d like to have not been pulling cables in or possibly shifting a 300kg gas cylinder, but labour shortages.
Maybe I’ll ask the retired guy over the road if he wants a job? Although I’m not sure how well it’ll go as he usually gets me to change light bulbs, open jars etc.
Well as taking up jobs that younger people could do
I don’t think you grasp the problem the UK has at all. The Scottish government have been shouting about it for decades now… an ageing population paired with UK wide rules and costs deliberately stacked against young families and young migrants… but down here we still have our heads in the sand thinking our problem is immigrants and the ****less youth of today (when it’s neither).
it’s actually about having enough people in the workforce,
Mmmmmmm lovely tasty infinite growth.
There’s the dichotomy… we need more young people to balance out the older people… but the older people don’t want us to have more young people (be it more fresh faced immigrants or a tax and benefit system or the housing provision that supports larger family units) and they have all the political power because of their numbers and where they can afford to live MP constituency wise.
Hmmm. The key thing to remember is that your NI is not for your pension…. It’s for all the lucky basturds who have already retired.
Yes. I get that. I don’t think that changes the point.
Agreed. I was trying to support your arguement.
Got to keep paying for them gimmigrants arriving daily.
Anyway you can retire any age you wish if you have been financially astute. 52 for me.
and they have all the political power because of their numbers and where they can afford to live MP constituency wise.
They also tend to vote, which the young generally don't.....
And then complain that politicians aren't looking out for them (the young that is).
5labFull Member
I don’t see a problem with it being 71.
ime, when people make statement like this what they really mean is.
5labFull Member
I don’t see a problem with it being 71 for other people.
which the young generally don’t…..
Often because their accommodation is temporary. So much easier for the home owner of Tumbridge Wells to have a consistent constituency to vote in.
Got to keep paying for them gimmigrants arriving daily.
That’s exactly the upside down attitude that’s the problem.
One-third of the UK’s 14 million Gen-Xers are at high risk of retiring on insufficient income.
This one is at risk of dying before he retires. Spent most of my working life since 16 doing physically demanding jobs. Now office based, stressful, suffering from a sedentary lifestyle plus issues from the physical work.
Sounds bad but I have no sympathy for those complaining they’re badly done to because they’ve put loads in to private pensions. Do you have any concept of how ****ing lucky you are to be able to do that in the first place? I spent years deciding between buying electric tokens for a meter or eating. Lucky enough to be able to put a bit away nowadays. A hell of a lot of people aren’t so fortunate.
Retirees will soon exceed workers in the UK. Successive post-WW2 governments failing to take action addressing the baby boom - retirees NI contributions were spend decades ago on their parent’s pensions. Selling-off public assets, natural resources and utilities means there’s been no sovereign investment returns to help plug gaps. We have a huge and increasing wealth disparity, with rich pensioners sitting on property portfolios whilst denying young people the opportunity to affordably rent or buy a home.
The UK has also one of the poorest productivity (GDP per capita) of the G7 as well as one of the lowest investment rates - things aren’t going to get better anytime soon. Throw in a dearth of workers in things like healthcare and construction, the sick won’t be getting better by themselves and the desperate shortage of affordable housing isn’t going to build itself. Chuck in the politicisation of immigration to suit the frothing gammons by both main parties, I can’t see the current predicament getting better for at least another decade.
Having just turned 59, I work part-time and have other income to keep me going until my private pensions start paying - fortunately my state pension is only a relatively small part of that income.
What I do know is that if I did have children, I’d be telling them to go abroad as their earning potential and career options are going to be better elsewhere - I thought the 80’s were pretty shit, but this decades going to take some beating.
The UK need to work out how to fix the ageing population issue internally where possible and through immigration were needed. Immigration is a huge problem for both sides, we cherry pick the best, then you are just moving the problems to another country, where you've stolen their brightest and best.
There is a real need for something though, even raising pension age to 71, i doubt you'll see a huge increase in numbers working that additional 4 years, we live longer, not healthier, i've just had a new hip, god knows what else will be wrong in 25 years when i'm 71 😂
"If only we had an agreement where we could have recruited more people into the workforce from our close neighbours. We could call it something like ‘freedom of movement’ or something similar, maybe make it part of a political union to the benefit of all members?"
Net immigration was 672k in the year to June 2023. How many more do you want and where will we get the houses for them?
https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2024/02/01/reducing-net-migration-factsheet-december-2023/
I think the whole world needs a rethink of how it operates. Constant growth, productivity, making mountains of shite we don’t really need, performing jobs that have no real meaning or need to them. All whilst we rape the planet of resources and a select few hoard all the wealth.
New houses near me advertised as ‘Great starter homes’ and ‘ideal for first time buyers and young families’ starting at £280k! It’s not realistic for the vast majority of young people.
Sorry, pissed off and in a ranting mood at the moment!
How many more do you want and where will we get the houses for them?
Ignoring the immigration issue… if we have more retired people we need more working people… they need homes wherever they or their parents were born.
How many empty bedrooms are there in the UK? Who has them? How many young families are constrained by their housing situation?
The problem isn’t population growth in the UK, it’s a lack of distribution and a system stacked against young people by previous generations.
Let’s not forget that more immigrants is just a Ponzi scheme. It requires more infrastructure and stresses finite resources (e.g. space).
The problem with this debate is it becomes incredibly tribal and selfish, with everyone pushing their own agenda.
Those on here crying about their 30-40 years NI contributions have absolutely no idea the pain of being in your early 30’s and never ever having lived in a time of economic growth. Most of you own your own houses. Really have no sympathy at all for you.
We spend a huge amount of money on social care. I'm sure this could be reduced by a significant amount.
The Rwanda madness. Be cheaper to pay them foreign jobbys to stay here , on the books and work in care homes , social care , hospitals etc .
We pay millions to keep people in hotels as there is a lack of social housing. which is solvable but needs long term investment.
People in general need to accept that the government pension is not going to be able to pay for a way of life for the millennials caught in the poverty trap , but they need to look at their own expenses.
Spending 4 figures on a phone, just because it's the shiniest one but is 5x the price of another functional phone for example.
Spending more each month on their car , car insurance , credit cards than their pension. Even owning a car worth more than their pension which must be the case for number of people, as it's all about looking good to others rather than driving a Daewoo matiz .
All the brexshiteers need to remember , in 20 years when they need some one to wipe their arse in the car home there won't be anyone to do it., as they successfully levered them out the country.
Oh, an ever raising state retirement age isn’t even the toughest bit of this… changing the tax system to hit high wealth pensioners more is going to be the real hard but essential political sell of the next 15 years. The backlash from the “I’ve paid in all my working life” brigade is going to be huge… but with a smaller proportion of the population working, it will have to happen to pay for the less well off pensioners.
It's a depressing outlook for our younger generation. They've been badly let down.
Getting them into affordable rented housing or even the first footsteps into their own home is becoming unreachable now and don't start on Uni costs. The state of this country is shambolic. I've got 2 young adult kids and it's a hard outlook.
I agree on the comments regarding the state pension, it'll be gone to some degree. Means tested so those with sufficient funds will not qualify. And to be fair, that's how it should be. Why are we also giving out free bus travel and winter heating payments to a section of our society who clearly don't really need it financially? Those payments again should be means tested and redirected to resources within our society that desperately need it more.
Working till 71? What? Increase the older workforce into the labour market potentially taking jobs that could be occupied by the young who may need them more. Where is the light at the end of the tunnel when an individual who is transitioning into working life start to comprehend that they have potentially 50+ years of employment to get through. The thought of being able to ease back and say, 'hang in there it's not long now' when the goalposts are constantly moved will feel alien, then only to retire into poor health cos you've burnt yourself out to provide.
Bring on the GE and use your vote. It may or not change things, but what alternative is there?
It requires more infrastructure and stresses finite resources (e.g. space).
There are couples in 5 bed homes with three cars on the drive. The UK has plenty of space, and we could have the infrastructure if our politicians didn’t keep delaying, cancelling and failing to deliver it (partly to appease that elderly couple with the 5 bed home who doesn’t like the idea of new train lines, homes, onshore windfarms, or capital expenditure on new anything).
Spending 4 figures on a phone, just because it’s the shiniest one but is 5x the price of another functional phone for example.
I used to think like this, but I've come to realise that home ownership, retirement, etc. are *so* far out of a lot of people's reach, that why *wouldn't* you spend on the things that are actually possible.
I'm not saying that all the financial decisions are wise, but I do have some sympathy for the place from which they're made.
At 60 i was physically and mentally done. There is no way i could have worked another decade or more.
Retrain you say? To what. Cant spend time on my feet.
People in my position will just end up on disability benefits.
More wrong headed reporting on economics, tax, and state expenditure.