[Closed] Wooden flooring advice

Big difference.......real wood will shrink and stretch more....best thing to do is rip off the skirtings when laying it and that should allow you to hide the expansion gap.....normally 10mm but I'm sure this increases the more larger the floor.
Makes sure also that you allow the wood to "rest " before laying it
Which means store it in a room for a few days to let it breathe and get a ambient temperature ...

Store in The room for as long as possible . I stored mine for a month my brother stored his for a full year but he is weird . I 2nd taking off the skirting boards to place the expansion gap bellow them . I had a professionally fitted parana pine floor butted up to the skirting in my old house it was excellent and never moved or expanded so when I laid my oak floor in this house I decided expansion gaps were unnecessary. Cue 2 years in crushed skirting boards and a mound in the floor where it had bukkled up. Any effort now is easier than trying to retro create an expansion gap with a router .

I'm heading down this route as well... so interested to hear.

I am intending to take off skirting boards, but am wondering if I should glue it or not. The last floor I laid was solid oak over boards, so I used hidden nails. I've read that it should be glued on concrete, but not sure how this allows for expansion 😕

When we had someone lay ours for us over concrete floor tey put a thin foam underlay down and just (I think) glued the planks together (they had jointed sides)

If it's click fit you won't need glue.
Engineered click fit is probably the one to go for, unless you need solid timber boards for some reason.

😳 I wonder if I had assumed gluing to the concrete when they meant gluing the boards together...

Back to google I go...

EDIT - I was thinking solid wood as with two dogs the floor gets a bit of hammer. I would like the option to sand and re-oil if needed. But will look at other options - thnaks.

Big difference.......real wood will shrink and stretch more....best thing to do is rip off the skirtings when laying it and that should allow you to hide the expansion gap.....normally 10mm but I'm sure this increases the more larger the floor.
Makes sure also that you allow the wood to "rest " before laying it
Which means store it in a room for a few days to let it breathe and get a ambient temperature ...

^^^ All the advice you need to know. We'd done laminite in a few rooms and put engineered oak down in the living room (sounds the same size as your room). Had it all down in a day, easy.

EDIT: No glue in our case. We put a dpf down, then some foam underlay and then the engineered oak (think the wood was 20mm thick).

Engineered click fit is probably the one to go for

This unless you like paying for a lot of plank you can't look at. If it was a proper suspended floor I might go with planks but over concrete engineered will be cheaper, look as good and I believe less likely to give expansion problems.

Good engineered is pricey enough anyway, just recovered from doing our ground floor....

Just a warning, real wood is a lot softer than laminate so be prepared to have a 'loved' floor after six months.

By 'loved' I mean a floor with dints and mark all over it

You can glue the whole floor down and not just the joints.
I did mine that way and used a flexible glue (Rewmar ms polymer) that allows for movement.
I think its the best way to fix the floor and is solid under foot unlike floating floors that almost always still have that laminate hollow feeling underneath.
But it is a pain to fit. It took me about a week to install and involved doing a bit then using a lot of clamps and weights to hold it whilst it dried. Was well worth it though and is pretty much a floor for life.

I've put down wooden planks and used a rubber like glue to glue it to the floor and it worked really really well.

Personally however I would wait for deadlydarcy to comment as he fitted an oak floor in my new house which wasn't straightforward and he did a really really good job, much better than I hoped and I could ever have done.

Im a bit dismayed by some of the above posts as they are quite misleading. I have solid oak floors, in that they are planks of tongue & groove of 25mm thick oak in the whole ground floor. They are screwed to battens that are screwed to the concrete subfloor and glued together. They are filled, sanded and finished with a few coats of special oil. You don't stick them to the floor. You will get movement with the floor and it does need treating to more coats occasionally. But its a proper job and will last forever.

I also have a ground floor room with a floating engineered ash floor, with is 5mm of wood stuck to plywood which is tongue and groove and stuck together. This sits on a thin foam base and is very solid (no hollow sounds) this is a much more 'perfect' look and comes with around five coats of heavy duty lacquer. I expect that you could sand and re lacquer occasionally, but probably not ideal for heavy duty areas....not for 10 plus years anyway.

I stuck down the floor inline with the suppliers guidelines battens wouldn't have worked as I didn't want a step into the room.

I've read that it should be glued on concrete

It survived everything bar a year-long leak from an internally-routed foul pipe which soaked the wood under a small part - and even then the gaps weren't too bad, only 1 or 2mm at the most over a 1ft2 section.

[i]I stuck down the floor inline with the suppliers guidelines[/i]

Okay fair enough...I suppose you can glue anything if it comes to it, but wasn't an option to me when I did it....I suppose if the glue has some flex like gripfill it should do the job.

My current oak floor with wide(ish) 7" planks that are reasonably long (3 to 5M lengths) is glued down onto plywood and also screwed through the tongues and whilst it does have some gaps (mainly due to the planks not being perfect) is pretty much spot on

Okay fair enough...I suppose you can glue anything if it comes to it, but wasn't an option to me when I did it....I suppose if the glue has some flex like gripfill it should do the job.

Above, On, or below grade
If on or below, any hydrostatic pressure from your slab?
Do you need vapor barrier/airflow underneath?

Above, On, or below grade

What does this mean? I assume it is a reference to the floor in relation to the outdoor ground level, or damp proof course? Not sure how I would know answers to the other questions?

Thanks for all the other replies, I would rather avoid batons as I don't want a step up if it can be avoided. The explanation of the glue being like a rubber layer that allows some movement helps me to understand how / why it works - thank you.

basically regardless of having a dpc, you need to have a plastic membrane between the concrete and the wood floor....which is possibly why glueing it wasn't an option. The wood battens were very thin (10mm) but sat on top of the membrane.

Did someone mention wood floors? Here I am. 😮

OP, I'm guessing if you're getting a click together floor, it's going to be an engineered floor? By engineered, I mean a layer of solid oak, say 2-4mm on a ply backing...possibly 3 layered ply (around 12-15mm flooring) up to multi-layered for better quality thicker boards (15-22mm).

If you're floating it, then I'd recommend a layer of membrane to cover the whole floor, then a good quality (eg. Timbermate) dense foam underlay. There are underlays which incorporate a DPM - which can be overlapped and taped. They're a bit pricier but laying out a big sheet of plastic can be a right pain in the arse and cause problems if you inadvertently get a fold in it at a corner. Think about where you're starting in the room and how you're going to fit it underneath architraves...some click together stuff has to be raised to get it to click together, meaning you need some skillz when it comes to fitting underneath architraves etc. You're more than welcome to post here for advice any time, it's the only help I can be on STW. 🙂

If your sub-floor is concrete, then personally, I'd avoid solid wood and stick with engineered. Unless you're happy to apply a DPM to the floor to control moisture release, it's a big risk to take and cupped/dished boards will look gash and be a problem that's difficult to remedy.

As for other comments, richc's floor was a fairly specialised case - and due to the size and nature of the boards, they required gluing and screwing with tongue-tites. Also, his boards varied quite a bit in widths so the screws were required for holding power while the glue cured. He's correct - AFAIR, we used Bona R844 glue which is a specialist flooring adhesive (it's kind of an "industry standard" adhesive) - and when it cures, it remains elastic, which allows the floor to flex and move a bit without causing any bother. It certainly required a bit of experience to fit. Not one for the faint-hearted. And a big bloody saw, as I'm sure richc remembers. 😆 It's good to hear it's still looking great!

Rockape, the method of fixing battens and then nailing or screwing the floor to them is a bit old hat now - with some of the levelling systems, DPMs and flooring adhesives available these days, it's entirely possible to fit floors direct to concrete without having to lay a big sheet of polythene down, meaning unnecessary step-ups can be avoided. A well fitted floor on screed feels as solid as a rock and there is no bounce (like that often found on floating floors). Flooring adhesives are not at all like grip-fill (which has little or no give) - and the ones I use can cost upwards of £100 per tub. 😯 Although, they're coming down in price a lot.

apologies for jumping in on the offer of advice, but this is nearing the top of my to-do list on an old house with suspended wooden floor. I'm lifting the existing boards to put celotex between the joists to help the insulation and was going for engineered boards fitted under the skirting.

DPC only needed on concrete, yes?

Should I put boards back down and float the floor on top of that, dealing with the level change as it goes into the hall, or fix the engineered boards to the joints with nails rather than glue? Initial thoughts was boards and floating floor but really not sure and there's a hearth so no idea what I'll find when I get the boards up...

Sounds like a plan. If you're lifting the floorboards and celotex-ing, then you might as well leave them up and replace with new boards. How you deal with moisture problems depends on what you've got underneath the joists - you might want to run a layer of builder's paper over the joists - will help a bit. Engineered boards will help mitigate any potential problems with moisture. If the existing levels all work ok, then just replace.

Fixing methods - either secret nail or tongue-tite screws. These days we all tend to use a bulk gun and sausages of flooring adhesive (line of glue run out along joist) to help with adhesion. Just make sure to give the joists a good clean off before using any glue on them.

Thank you kindly, sir [/thumbup]

We too looking at a new floor.
My wife is liking the wood effect porcelain tiles.
Anybody had any experiences with this type??

Had a highly polished Rudgum floor. Showed every and I mean every little mark. Not a good mix with young kids dropping things or even just existing. A year down the line it looked nothing like it did at install. Not worse, just different and patina laden.

Okay fair enough...I suppose you can glue anything if it comes to it, but wasn't an option to me when I did it....I suppose if the glue has some flex like gripfill it should do the job.

Don't use gripfill! The solvents in the adhesive can spread through the board causing stains.

Just a warning, real wood is a lot softer than laminate so be prepared to have a 'loved' floor after six months.

By 'loved' I mean a floor with dints and mark all over it

Perfect! The dogs will give it a real patina, especially on any corners between their bed and the letter box. There's no need to keep sanding down; a wipe over with oil is all thats needed.

be prepared to have a 'loved' floor after six months.

richc's floor was a fairly specialised case - and due to the size and nature of the boards, they required gluing and screwing with tongue-tites. Also, his boards varied quite a bit in widths so the screws were required for holding power while the glue cured

Ah, the wonders of pre-first war world thicknesser and saws and mad 80 year old bloke in a lumber yard in Devon who only sells stuff to people he likes, meets, insults and swears at in person as he doesn't like telephones or computers 🙂 Mind you it was the only place I found that sold English Oak planks in 5M+ lengths that I could afford 🙂

Had a highly polished Rudgum floor. Showed every and I mean every little mark. Not a good mix with young kids dropping things or even just existing. A year down the line it looked nothing like it did at install. Not worse, just different and patina laden.

I think that depends on the wood though and finish doesn't it? As mine is still pretty dent free after 7 months and its had stuff dropped on it and I have dogs.

Mine is Oak treated with Osmo Polyx oil and will break plates if they are dropped on it from table height.

Ours become 'loved' after about a week when we had an 'extension warming' party and a friend walked all over it in her high heels

The Royal Festival Hall used to have a lovely Maple floor, covered in 50 years worth of fag burns and stiletto dents. It was polished every morning though, so had a beautiful patina.
I often wonder where it went when they ripped it up...

We had the floorboards lifted, celotex fitted to the depth of the joists, boards relaid then covered with engineered oak click fit, which was glued in place with the proper adhesive. Skirting boards were lifted and re-fitted to give the expansion gap. Overall I'm happy with it but it does mark/ dent/ scratch easily, and I don't think you can sand it back much due to the thinness of the oak top layer.

Ours become 'loved' after about a week when we had an 'extension warming' party and a friend walked all over it in her high heels

No high heels allowed on my new floor! I am wondering at what point people become less finicky about avoiding marks on their floor and get back to normal life? (I'm a long way off that ... )