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[i] though perhaps you got a bit excited about having something to pick at.[/i]
No, I'm responsible for at least one use of the 'S' word, so it's a fair cop.
[i] The text of the statement from JC's website seems altogether reasonable to me. [/i]
Yeap.
dragon - MemberCreate a ministerial role for women’s safety.
WTF? Why not just have a person responsible for peoples safety, oh yeah that'll be the Home Secretary then, tow of the last 3 being women.
Jesus this guff is something you'd get from any of the Blair or Cameron governments and Corbyn is supposed to be different and the answer to our prayers!!
Calm down. There already exists a Minister of State for Crime Prevention, there is no reason at all why there can't a junior minister for women’s safety.
https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers/minister-of-state--21
.
Corbyn is supposed to be different and the answer to our prayers!!
Well I suggest that in your case dragon you just carry on voting Tory 💡
Jesus this guff is something you'd get from any of the Blair or Cameron governments and Corbyn is supposed to be different and the answer to our prayers!!
No, it's not.
Cameron/Blair etc would've bigged up a great new policy that solves all the problems and stuck to it. Corbyn is simply saying that the idea has been raised and should be considered.
THAT is the key difference between Corbyn and the rest. Actual rational consideriation and debate, rather than media driven manipulation, ideology and zealotry.
But they are already working on it and with advice from one of the groups Corbyn wants to speak to, see
[url= http://www.btp.police.uk/advice_and_information/how_we_tackle_crime/project_guardian.aspx ]Trasport Police - Project Guardian[/url] which has been running since 2013.
Plus from February:
[url= https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/challenging-violence-against-women-and-girls-on-uk-transport ]Government speeches challenging violence against women and girls on uk transport[/url]
damn me and my facts 😈
But they are already working on it and with advice from one of the groups Corbyn wants to speak to
So why are you getting hysterical about it ?
So.. people are already debating something, and Corbyn has simply acknowledged that. And he's a raving lunatic why exactly?
Just playing catch-up and started writing then realised that I would sound like Mary Whitehouse! Some of you may have heard the name, if you're old enough that is. 😉
So.. people are already debating something, and Corbyn has simply acknowledged that. And he's a raving lunatic why exactly?
Because the priority in this leadership contest is to attack Corbyn.
Besides, the other 3 candidates haven't much to say.
realised that I would sound like Mary Whitehouse! Some of you may have heard the name, if you're old enough that is.
Preferred her Experience if I'm honest.
Milky Milky
media driven manipulation, ideology and zealotry
Ohh yeah.. who started that trend..
New Blair wasn't it 🙄 then the fat controller simply continued in the same vein, then post that MilliBilly stepped in very nicely..
and alls well in Politics then because it's still like that, Concubine isn't going to change that either, just use the same templates set out before him.
Can we not thread drift into whether or not Corbyn is the messiah or just a very naughty boy please? There's already a thread for that, and the original topic is really interesting IMHO.
Cougar - that was a pretty good link you posted. Don't see why some of that couldn't be taken and used in senior school.
According to my paper of choice whose website I have been reading at lunchtime, Corbyn said women only carriages had been proposed to him by some women, and that it would be considered.Hardly unreasonable thing for him to say, is it?
Well he could have said he rejects segregation. What if the stats said most muggings were by blacks and people wanted white only carriages.
Why would it matter if he rejects it? Why would it be the right thing to even show his opinion?
His job as leader would be to listen to those with a stake in it. Not stamp his personal point of view all over it.
IMO this is a lesson in leadership for the rest of the daft sods.
Having read this thread thank you molgrips for a sensible comment.
The laughable part of all this is the media reporting as though its a new policy and law, and the "attacks" by the idiots running against him and in the conservative party.
it shows how bad politics is in the country
What if the stats said most muggings were by blacks and people wanted white only carriages.
Well white only carriages would be pointless as it wouldn't protect black passengers from being mugged.
Hope that helps, don't hesitate if you've got any more questions.
What about gingers?
What if the stats said most muggings were by blacks and people wanted white only carriages.
There is an intrinsic imbalance in gender relations at some level, unlike race relations. The unfortunate fact that women are on average smaller and physically weaker than men has subtle but profound implications to society I think.
Its easier for them to hide in cupboards?
Calm down. There already exists a Minister of State for Crime Prevention, there is no reason at all why there can't a junior minister for women’s safety.
So, you think wimmins safety is only important enough to qualify for a 'junior' ministerial role?
Chauvinist pig!
What if the stats said most muggings were by blacks and people wanted white only carriages.
As long as you make sure they're not forced to sit at the back..
dragon - MemberWTF? Why not just have a person responsible for peoples safety, oh yeah that'll be the Home Secretary then, two of the last 3 being women.
TBH that's not really the Home Secretary's job any more, it's more about blaming foreigners for everything and whenever that doesn't work blaming Wanton Criminality and being Tough On Crime and stamping on some faces forever.
hels - MemberTo drag out the cyclists metaphor (as I may have a fighting chance with that one) what you want is more women travelling about at night as they feel safe doing so, in the same way that we want more cyclists on city streets.
Punishing people by forcing them out of public spaces because they can't currently so something every human being has a right to be able to do safely, is not addressing the problem, it is exacerbating the problem.
The problem is, just like with cycling some people have already been forced out of these public spaces. And completely out, not just into the corner. I meant it when I asked, what would you say to the people who stand to benefit from it, the ones who already feel forced out and who it's hardest to help back in? Not just the afraid but the already-victims.
The helmet metaphor's a bit clunky but bike lanes work well I think... Yes sometimes when there's a bike lane, cyclists in the road get a hard time for not being in the cycle lane. It's a real problem. But it gets people on bikes and in cycle lanes, who otherwise wouldn't be on bikes at all. So, balance of harm/benefit, and a pragmatic short term aid for a long term problem
And yes the correct solution is to make the streets so safe and so visibly safe that everyone is happy to ride in them; but that's hard, and takes time, might even be impossible, in the meantime bike lanes can be positive. I hardly ride in 'em and sometimes it's a problem but I'm glad they're there for people who can't or won't ride in the road.
If women only carriages are a good option, then that's pretty shit, it just says so much bad about us. But maybe they are, and maybe it is just shit. Worth finding out?
His job as leader would be to listen to those with a stake in it. Not stamp his personal point of view all over it.
But to a large extent this what Cameron does all the time e.g. selling off the Forestry Commission everyone says 'No thanks', policy scrapped, Cameron attacked for doing U-turn. This is Corbyn doing the same, chuck out idea, everyone says it's rubbish and back to the drawing board we go.
I'll admit that Cameron does do it for some stuff. Bloody Michael Gove is worse.
This is Corbyn doing the same, chuck out idea
It's not Corbyn's policy or even his idea, and he's not claiming it as his idea! The media are attempting to portray it as such though and it's really working.
Why would it matter if he rejects it? Why would it be the right thing to even show his opinion?
In elections the voters like to know the opinions of candidates so they can decide which opinion they like best.
Well white only carriages would be pointless as it wouldn't protect black passengers from being mugged.Hope that helps, don't hesitate if you've got any more questions.
Just like woman only carriages wouldn't protect male passengers from being assaulted or mugged. Women are not the only victims of crime on trains.
In elections the voters like to know the opinions of candidates so they can decide which opinion they like best.
They should vote on what the candidates say they're going to do. And in this case he says he's going to start a debate on how best to solve the problem. Or to put it another way - he's of the opinion that we need a debate on this issue.
You're allowed not to know stuff, and to not yet have formed an opinion. Despite what they baying press say.
In elections the voters like to know the opinions of candidates so they can decide which opinion they like best.
Corbyn's opinion is that policy should not be decided by one person, that instead it should involve discussions and debates and democratically arrived decisions. This is dramatically different to the other 3 candidates and the bunch of stalinists who have controlled the party for the last 20 years. Hope that helps.
And in this case he says he's going to start a debate on how best to solve the problem.
But what does that even mean, it sounds wishy-washy to me and TBH little different from the other 3 candidates. People want solutions not talk. He is perfectly capable of setting his research unit off to give him possible solutions to problems then pick one, and only then present it to the electorate.
People want solutions not talk.
In which case it's best to get the input of interested parties before reaching a decision. Which is what he's doing.
He is perfectly capable of setting his research unit off to give him possible solutions to problems then pick one, and only then present it to the electorate.
A focus group? Everyone loves 'em.
But what does that even mean, it sounds wishy-washy to me and TBH little different from the other 3 candidates. People want solutions not talk. [b]He is perfectly capable of setting his research unit off to give him possible solutions to problems then pick one, and only then present it to the electorate.[/b]
irc - MemberWell he could have said he rejects segregation. What if the stats said most muggings were by blacks and people wanted white only carriages.
What if stats said most jelly was smeared over tall people and people wanted jelly free carriages?
He is perfectly capable of setting his research unit off to give him possible solutions to problems then pick one, and only then present it to the electorate.
Yes, they're called focus groups. How well do you think they work?
Doesn't have to be from a focus group, that's one way, but it's not the only way.
But what does that even mean, it sounds wishy-washy to me and TBH little different from the other 3 candidates.
You have to remember it's just one line in a long list of things in a document about one aspect of policy. It's not the major headline the press made it out to be. It really does look like they are shamefully attacking him.
As one user, possibly more, has stated that as a man they sometimes feel uncomfortable in a carriage then common sense dictates that unsociable behaviour should not be tolerated.
I've asked about the Transport Police but haven't noticed any response. Should there be more of them, visible to one and all? Would they be a deterrent?
Yeah I think so.
A lot of women seemed to appreciate conductors on Routemaster busses as a face of authority, even if it wasn't a policeman, really helped - I was told at least.
People want solutions not talk.
What people want isn't always what's best for them. It's easy just to sound good, but far better in practice to consult people who are directly involved in issues and then make an informed decision.
Corbyn - or indeed, any politician - may or may not be "perfectly capable of setting his research unit off to give him possible solutions to problems" but that isn't an instant process. Which is what he was saying, that he would "work with women and women’s organisations to take steps to raise awareness and tackle it" (and why the other candidates all said "er, we don't know, Corbyn smells, I have to go my mother's on the phone and I think I left the gas on" or something).
If someone hasn't got a solution to something, would you rather they went looking for one, or would you rather they pulled a crowd-pleasing answer out of their arse on the spur of the moment?
People want solutions not talk.
Also, you need talk to come up with solutions. A solution without talk is not going to be much good.
is there any evidence that females are subject to greater levels of intimidation and violence than men? A cursory glance on the internet appears to suggest that both genders need protected in equal amounts.
A cursory glance on the internet appears to suggest that both genders need protected in equal amounts.
'Course they do, yes.
is there any evidence that females are subject to greater levels of intimidation and violence than men? A cursory glance on the internet appears to suggest that both genders need protected in equal amounts.
Are we on different Internets?
Wait,
Are we on different planets?
He is perfectly capable of setting his research unit off to give him possible solutions to problems then pick one, and only then present it to the electorate.
And then when it draws criticism in the press show some true leadership by blaming his staff and promising disciplinary action?
[i] Cougar - Moderator
Are we on different Internets?
Wait,Are we on different planets?[/i]
Yes, due to WiFi range limitations, different planets necessitates different internets.
Lets keep this thread for the original topic of discussion.
Men's only train carriages is a different thread.
Different planet is optional.
😉