Getting winter tyres fitted to Mrs Sinatra's Peugeot 107 tomorrow, we live in Scotland and she needs to drive all over the countryside for her work. Getting 4x4 is not an option just now.
Question is though whether to get just the front tyres done or get them all round.
Any thoughts?
2 would work fine, if she gets scared easily then 4!
IMO a 107 with snow tyres would be better than most 4x4's anyhow.
IMO a 107 with snow tyres would be better than most 4x4's anyhow
I'm looking forward to it, I reckon it will be a blast!
I'd say 4... anecdotally 2 can lead to the back of the car sliding around even as the front maintains its grip. A sliding rear could still be enough to cause some trouble. Edited to say I get scared easily!
Although tempting to fit 2 on a fwd hatch 'cos most work is done by the front wheels, what about corners, bends and roundabouts where the rear will step out?
Just fitted 4 winter tyres to the wife's fwd car. This winter's fronts will be next winter's rears so the long term cost is the same.
2 can lead to the back of the car sliding around
Right, 2 it is then! 😉
depends whether you trust the missus to react correctly when the back end steps out - or will she just bin it into a ditch.
I'd be fitting 4.
Only fitting two is not recommended.
You'll have different grip levels f&r. Unless she practices hanging it out on snowy roads to get a handle on things the first time she'll notice it is when she's in a ditch (or worse).
There's little point in the front gripping/steering if it get's overtaken by the back.
Winter Tyres for a 107 should be pretty cheap so go for all four. 🙂
depends whether you trust the missus to react correctly
She would react by blaming me!
I seem to have missed the boat this year on tyres. Best proce locally I could find was £55 fitted. Seem to have got more expensive as we get closer to cold weather
4 is the way to go if you can afford it. I couldn't last year so only have 2 and i can got about fine. I just need to remember the back is not a grippy and is more likely to slide out than the front. My hope was to add another 2 this year but have no money again and use the car less as i can walk to work now so will just be driving carefully again this year. This year my rear tyres only have about 4mm of tread so i think i may be pushing my luck a little more if it gets really bad.
Wait 'til the clocks change and frost arrives, the price will rocket.
Edit: Just checked, the tyres we bought 2 weeks ago are up a tenner each already.
According to my cars handbook, all 4 tyres should be changed if any are to be used at all.. bit tricky as I'm skint and need at least 2..
Trouble is, if in a crash and your not following the manufacturers recommendation, your potentially liable, it's worth thinking about.
This year my rear tyres only have about 4mm of tread so i think i may be pushing my luck a little more if it gets really bad.
tread depth will only really make a difference when its wet, and 4mm will be enough to clear all but the very deepest puddles at high speed. Road tyre tread isn't aggressive enough to really make any difference on snow (not saying winter tyres dont work better, but imo they work better due to the compound differences more than the tread itself)
Read this on another forum I use.
[img] http://www.winterhighland.info/forum/file.php?2,file=7742 [/img]
I'll be refitting my 4 winter tyres next weekend 😉
Depends. If you drive like a tool on bad conditions (when I say 'tool' I mean drive like you would in summer) then no winter tyre would save you from ice/bad conditions.
If I lived in Scotland I'd buy 4 winter tyres.
Here in Manchester I've got two snowProx's to go on the front (FWD).
If I owned a RWD car I'd fit 4. Why? I can handle the back coming out at low speed - all I seek is 'increased traction on the bad bits. I wont be going fast.
franksinatra - MemberI seem to have missed the boat this year on tyres. Best proce locally I could find was £55 fitted. Seem to have got more expensive as we get closer to cold weather
That's pretty good value, isn't it?
A bloke at work was quoted £180/tyre for his Skoda Yeti. And that was with a 25% discount offer that they currently have running!
It's only a 1.2 TSI, but has 225/??/17 tyres on it!
Michelin recommends you spend more money with them shocker...
EDIT: Funkydunc beat me to it...
stumpy was that a main dealer by chance?
Bro in law had a tyre replaced on his car by the main dealer even though he didnt ask for it and had measured the treads a week before (he carries a gauge around with him- no idea why).
I bought 4 budget winter tyres so I didn't actually spend it with them.
And whilst they may be budget they're a whole load better than summer "performance" tyres, they also don't wear out as quick in the cold.
Just had 2 Yokohama W. Drive V902a's fitted at weekend.
Was considering getting all 4, but it's damned expensive so just got the drive wheels done ( FWD)
I have a 'reserved' driving style at the best of times which gets even more reserved during winter.
Kind of looking forward to seeing if they're any good.
Chris
A word of caution, check with your insurance company. In the past I've always told them that I've swapped tyre's and there's been no further queries or charge from them (no questions whether it was 2 or 4) but this year I was specifically asked if I'd fitted all 4.
Personnally I don't see why the insurance company should be informed, as it isn't a modification, as (well in my case) I will/should be following what my manufacturers recommends in the car handbook, not bolting on a go faster exhaust or wider/lower than recommended wheels.
Another thread on this, had some saying their insurance company charged them extra for doing it.
As winter tyres are to enhance the abilities of the car in winter conditions, how can this something the insurance needs to up the policy to protect against...
Winter tyres are a performance enhancement and help your car go quicker, so therefore the risk of a big accident goes up.
Just like any other performanc mod in that way.
As winter tyres are to enhance the abilities of the car in winter conditions, how can this something the insurance needs to up the policy to protect against...
I got told it was because you are more likely/frquently to go out in worse conditions there is a greater chance of you having an accidents therefore we are going to charge you more.
pretty poor reason if you ask me.
Probably a mixture of all, but insurance co's will justify anything if it means they get more money 🙂
Winter tyres are a performance enhancement and help your car go quicker, so therefore the risk of a big accident goes up.
BUT no, winter tyre enhance your car ability to grip in un-sound conditions. If you drive like a tool, that no more likey to happen with winter or summer tyres on.
Just like any other performanc mod in that way.
Tell me what other performance mod's come recommended in your car handbook from the manufacturer as standard?
I got told it was because you are more likely/frquently to go out in worse conditions there is a greater chance of you having an accidents therefore we are going to charge you more.pretty poor reason if you ask me.
This I think is more likely, and would totally agree with +1
Though I don't see how this can be a justification really, As you've taken extra precautions against the weather conditions, so why should you not be out driving?
EDIT: FD yes.. that is more likely to be simply the case
Due to a similar thread a year or so ago where one of the STW's got quoted something like an extra £240 to fit cold weather tyres to his Laguna estate, I checked before having mine fitted - Rang on a Sat & had to ring back Sunday - No problem. ...I wasn't asked whether it was 2 or 4 I was fitting ( This is with Aviva).
Chris
Took a punt last year - I got 4x Conti Winter Contacts off ebay for £100. all with +5mm of tread
Seller: save_on_tyres_direct
Recommended and dealt with replacement of 1 tyre with sidewall damage within 24hrs.
Found the above mentioned insurance increase mentioning STW member on Auto Express
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/260503/winter_tyre_ko_as_big_freeze_hits.html
excerpt from : "Meanwhile, some insurers are failing to spot the benefit and are raising premiums. Auto Express subscriber David Gana, from Oldham, Lancs, said Frizzell told him the “modification” of winter tyres for his Renault Laguna would hike his premium by £230. And www.singletrackworld.com forum contributor Swalsey was surprised when he rang Admiral to see if his winter tyres would attract a discount. “It quoted an INCREASE of £22!” he fumed.
Chris
Found the above mentioned insurance increase mentioning STW member on Auto Expresshttp://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/260503/winter_tyre_ko_as_big_freeze_hits.html
excerpt from : "Meanwhile, some insurers are failing to spot the benefit and are raising premiums. Auto Express subscriber David Gana, from Oldham, Lancs, said Frizzell told him the “modification” of winter tyres for his Renault Laguna would hike his premium by £230. And http://www.singletrackworld.com forum contributor Swalsey was surprised when he rang Admiral to see if his winter tyres would attract a discount. “It quoted an INCREASE of £22!” he fumed.
BBC had an article about this last year. I think the consensus was brain dead call centre staff were the issue.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11969958
Yep, I've come across these folk before hence the call this year however I'll have to defend the bloke from Churchill who when queried whether there would be an additional cost said "you're making the car safer, why would we charge you more"
i can see though that winter tyre users could be more likely to crash than people who don't. I won't be fitting winter tyres, as I live on the south coast, and for the 3 days a year it's snowey, I just won't drive. Someone might live next door to me but be yomping up and down the country, and gets the tyres because when its snowing, he needs to get to work over the downs.
He's doing the safe thing by fitting the tyres, but he could be more at risk by doing so. Its the same as fitting better brakes to a car, or improving the handling. In itself, it makes the car safer, but in doing it, you're now in a catagory of drivers more likely to crash
In itself, it makes the car safer, but in doing it, you're now in a catagory of drivers more likely to crash
Not convinced by that. Maybe more likely to have someone slide into the back of you...
hora - Member
stumpy was that a main dealer by chance?
Nope, "STS tyre pros" in Letchworth. I think that the Skoda dealer were quite reasonable when he enquired, although in the end he got them from Camskill & the dealer is fitting them for £7.50 a corner.
Actually, just a point for others reading this who maybe are considering winter tyres. -
They're not just for snow, they're great in wet/cold conditions [I'm in Scotland].
Not convinced by that. Maybe more likely to have someone slide into the back of you...
my point is, it can make your car safer, yet statistically make you more likely to crash at the same time. If you drive in inclemental conditions whilst I sit at home in front of the fire, you're more likely to crash than I am.
I don't know that it does work this way, but this is why modifications to suspension and brakes increase your premium whilst making you safer
I take your point about sitting at home vs being on the road.
I think in part the suspension/brake premium issue is due to boy racers and/or Impreza driving man-children who haven't grown out of driving like arseholes, being the ones who tend to engage in pimping activities...
x4 ordered and due to be fitted tomorrow.
Bring on the winter!
Not convinced by that. Maybe more likely to have someone slide into the back of you...
In winter the only thing that scares me (no not black ice) is other drivers on the roads.
I would definately recommend them. On that note, I have made a mistake and ordered the wrong ones so am selling a pare two. They are 215/55/17 Toyo Snowprox, they get good reviews. Based in Scotland but would send. I have put them on the For Sale section. These are good tyres which I think are now out of stock. Let me know if you would like them.
Michelin Alpins are consistently voted the highest (occasionally beaten by Conti winters).
The insurance increase issue was last winter. It is highly unlikely anyone will see their premium increase due to fitting winter tyres anymore.
Any thoughts on Dunlop Sp Wintersport 3D, quoted @ £83 per wheel fitted.. found them slightly cheaper online but only slightly and still need to get em fitted...
We've just ordered 4x avon ice touring tyres - they come across fairly well rated across the board even against the big boys and they're cheap as chips. I'll be sticking to my rain tyres and 4wd, and just not driving like a loon.
Here's some tyre tests from ADAC, [the German AA], reckon the Germans are probably more clued up on this than we are:
Open in Chrome for translation
We've already had this one.
Correct answer is all 4 tyres unlike chains which you can get away with fitting to just the drive wheels as they are for forward traction.
No brainer. They're not like chains ie just to get you moving, they help you drive in all cooler weather. They grip better even in the dry when it's winter; better in mud and rain; better on black ice and of course snow.
Definitely get four - you do want to go around corners don't you?
They'll save you money in the long run too as your summer tyres wear a lot in winter so two sets of tyres should last more than twice as long as one set of summers.
Dunlop Sp Wintersport 3D
IIRC Autoexpress tested this years version (now called 4D I think) and gave it top marks but it was a pre production model so didnt actually put it in the top 3. So in summary - a 3D will be better than fine!
As for 2 vs 4 debate - I've done 2 winters with 2 on the front (fwd) and as we live on a slight hill (but regular visits at inlaws on a steep hill) the sideways excitement just got too much: always braking, coming back down the hill and we now put 4 on at least one car.
You can live with 2. And get going. Stopping is more entertaining esp on a hill for some reason.
With a RWD you defo need all 4. A non braking non steering 5 series is not something I'd risk others lives with again.
I would also suggest Nokian WR D3 cos they are awesome and optimised for mud, slush and snow rather than pure snow performance which is what we need here.
I noticed that Nokian have replaced the WRG2 with a new range and now I want new ones 🙁
I wanted the A3 with the central band for quietness and economy.. but they don't do it in my size.. ah well.. I'll have to stop being such a geek...
Oh btw.. if you are thinking of 2 tyres you are thinking of pulling up your street in the snow.. well imagine braking into a corner at 30mph and hitting black ice.. with much gripper tyres on the front you'd be whipped into a spin faster than you could say 'I wish I'd listened to molgrips' I reckon.