[Closed] Winter car tyres - sorry

a vast proportion of the British public are idiots

Why hasn't winter tyres been made compulsory here in the UK?

Imagine...everyone would STILL drive at the same speeds on snow all the time with added confidence that their ABS/TC AND SNOW tyres will keep them safe 😆

Northwind - Member
Bottom line is, that understeer was a much bigger problem than oversteer. Rear wheel slides were easily managed and less problematic, but also less common, since the rear's really just following the front whereas the front's dealing with steering and power.

Or in other words- no different from the motorbike, which always had a sticky tyre on the front, and the pushbikes.

I don't think that reasoning is right, losing the front on a bike/motorbike is very difficult to correct, whereas understeer in a car is very natural for most people to correct by just lifting off the accel, or braking.

Snap oversteer caused by lifting-off mid corner, weight transfer under heavy braking or aquaplaning is very difficult to correct (and then also not over-correct and spin the other way).

Why hasn't winter tyres been made compulsory here in the UK?

I guess if was made compulsory there would be a huge complaint from people having to shell out the cash, rather than having the choice.

Unless you can predict when the afore-mentioned idiot is going to find the black ice in front of you both and pirouette back down the road giving you the option of hitting them, or swerving between them and the small child on the pavement, then its worth going down the safest route. Unless you're driving somewhere where NOBODY else does, then fine, you can carry on as you were.

The counter to this of course is vastly different braking performances with other cars and problems this might induce. I had an incident last year with winter tyres on where the knuckle dragger in the car behind seemed to be using my brake lights to inform him when he might like to think about slowing down for a set of roundabouts on an icy road. I started braking at the right distance from the roundabouts for my setup to be able to come to a halt smoothly but he consistently left it too late for his summer tyred car nearly slithering into the back of me twice. Fortunately the last time he completely naffed it up and swerved up onto the verge to avoid hitting me and I was able to make a little ground between us whist he sorted himself out.

Snap oversteer caused by lifting-off mid corner, weight transfer under heavy braking or DELETE is very difficult to correct

Again, you are going too fast for the conditions. Dont blame the tyres.

Aquaplaning is like ice. You literally have to go with the flow regardless.

Fortunately the last time he completely naffed it up [b]and swerved up onto the verge to avoid hitting me[/b] and I was able to make a little ground between us whist he sorted himself out.

Imagine...everyone would STILL drive at the same speeds on snow all the time with added confidence that their ABS/TC AND SNOW tyres will keep them safe

Wow, hora's struggling with a simple concept here.

Winter tyres give MORE traction than summer tyres - fact.

Therefore, you can either go faster for the same level of control, or go the same speed and have lots more control. Or, what most people do, go somewhat faster and still have more control.

You seem really keen to twist these very simple concepts into some kind of position where you can make us all out to be stupid. I don't really know why.

Its all very well saying "I don't need winter tyres, I know how to drive my car well".

I'm also pretty good at ice-skating, but I won't be putting on a pair of football boots next time I go.

No. You take the extra traction offered by the winter tyres AND drive more carefully. This combined makes you safer in winter.

I use the traction offered to slowly/safely keep me from grinding to a halt and abandoning my car. THAT is key to me in winter. I DREAD that happening.

I don't use the tyres to keep my progress swift.

Thats my thinking.

I'm also pretty good at ice-skating, but I won't be putting on a pair of football boots next time I go.

ICE will screw up regardless of your tread pattern. Unless you are on studded tyres.

hora - Member

Snap oversteer caused by lifting-off mid corner, weight transfer under heavy braking or DELETE is very difficult to correct

Again, you are going too fast for the conditions. Dont blame the tyres.

Aquaplaning is like ice. You literally have to go with the flow regardless.

Point is Hora, people do make mistakes and when they do it is better to have a situation they can easily correct, than one which causes them to spin the car.

On summer tyres? I thought we were trying to deomonstrate that one could not control the car in winter conditions without winter tyres.

That would be to not understand the concept. Winter tyres do allow more directional control when loosing control is a possibility. But one of the best things about them is that they reduce braking distances in the cold - a lot! There are plenty of conditions where you could happily maintain control of a car with summer tyres on but a bit like driving on a very wet road your stopping distances get extended. In this case the driver behind was unaware that mine and his stopping distances were very different.

Point is Hora, people do make mistakes and when they do it is better to have a situation they can easily correct, than one which causes them to spin the car.

In this case the driver behind was unaware that mine and his stopping distances were very different.

But the other driver was able to control his car to avoid the accident even though he was on summer tyres.

Where do you live? If that's your idea of control, I'd rather avoid 😀

They were your words, not mine. You said, "and swerved up onto the verge to avoid hitting me" which I assume means that in spite of being brake tested he was able to avoid a collision, good bit of driving on these summer tyres. [/devil's advocate]. 😆

Thing is no matter how careful a driver you are there are always idiots on the road. In bad conditions I'll give the car infront LOTS of space. . Also I've been overtaken on a 30 to gain one cars length- thats rare but it did happen in winter. some people don't want to waste 1 second of their time.

Or you give someone infront lots of room and you look in your mirror to see someone on your ass.

This winter you'll see people spinning their wheels like crazy down the road!

They were your words, not mine. You said, "and swerved up onto the verge to avoid hitting me" which I assume means that in spite of being brake tested he was able to avoid a collision, good bit of driving on these summer tyres. [/devil's advocate].

I'm afraid through the last couple of pages you have deliberately attempted to twist the concept through a lack of basic understanding on your part. Your devil's advocate is a bit of a mentalist!

I'm afraid through the last couple of pages you have deliberately attempted to twist the concept through a lack of basic understanding on your part.

davidjones15 - Member
I'm with the police on this one and the cessation of the word accident.

What does that have to do with the bit of my quote you posted?

Mistake. And not necessarily a dig at you. Some people are just over sensitive on here.

which I assume means that in spite of being brake tested he was able to avoid a collision [edit]by driving up a bank[/edit], [b]good bit of driving on these summer tyres[/b].

You telling me that driving up a bank is in control and with care? 😯

If it avoids hitting the twunt in front who's brake testing me, yes. Personally I'd have given you a bit more distance.

davidjones15 - Member

Mistake. And not necessarily a dig at you. Some people are just over sensitive on here.

Sorry I didn't mean to sound as aggressive as it does reading it back.

You take the extra traction offered by the winter tyres AND drive more carefully. This combined makes you safer in winter

That's what I said.

I use the traction offered to slowly/safely keep me from grinding to a halt and abandoning my car.

Quite, and this is easier with more traction, isn't it? It's both easier and quicker.

ICE will screw up regardless of your tread pattern. Unless you are on studded tyres

It's not just the tread pattern, it's the compound. Winter tyres are better on ice.

This thread has a new villain 🙂

I've got winter tyres AND central heating, do I win?

[IMG] [/IMG]

to the OP, fit what you like, someone in front of you will mess up on the frost and jam the road anyway...

who's brake testing me

Sorry, I'm being a bit thick - what does "brake testing me" mean?

For context - driving at 30mph on a 40mph limit road due to really icy nature of road. About 50-60m to the roundabout I apply the brake gently to come to a halt in a straight line in time for the roundabout. For my brakes & tyres and for that particular road condition that was a nice gentle but not over cautious approach. With my summer tyres on I'd have started braking about 15m sooner to remain safe.

Is this the mythical "brake testing me" of which you speak? Does that make me a "twunt"? I have little control over how close the car behind drives or when he chooses to start braking. What would you have done differently oh great oracle?

For context - driving a 30mph on a 40mph limit road due to really icy nature of road. 50m to the roundabout I apply the brake gently to come to halt in a straight line in time for the roundabout. For my brakes & tyres and for that particular road condition that was a nice gentle but not over cautious approach. With my summer tyres on I'd have started braking about 15m sooner to remain in the same level of control

Sorry, I'm being a bit thick - what does "brake testing me" mean?

What he's saying is that you intentionally slammed on to teach the guy a lesson not to drive so close to you.

But the driver behind your aston should know that the roundabout's coming up, or be far enough behind to see it, so should brake in good time of his own accord. I don't blindly follow the car in front's brake lights.

However in the case of snow, yes you should bear in mind the person behind, and he should also not be close behind you.

What he's saying is that you intentionally slammed on to teach the guy a lesson not to drive so close to you.

A quick flash of your hazzards works.

The Aston will brake alot quicker than a Mondeo, should I brake at the last minute, simply because I can? Or should I show greater awareness towards other drivers?

Trololololol!
The car behind you should be far enough back that it can avoid a collision if you suddenly stop. If he/she hits the back of you then they weren't leaving enough space, so it's their fault, 100%.

What he's saying is that you intentionally slammed on to teach the guy a lesson not to drive so close to you.

Then he'd be wrong.

If I hadn't been there the outcome would have still been the same - if he chose to brake at the point he did (esp the 2nd time) judging by his inability to stop he would have been either on the bank or in the middle of the roundabout.

I really don't buy that I was "driving to the max" or to be honest even anywhere close. I could have happily (small, light car with massive brakes) halved my stopping distance and still remained straight and in control.

Anyone who uses the car in front to judge when to brake rather than looking at what's coming up is a bell end in in my opinion.

But....if you look back at my original point, what I was saying was that difference in tyre performance between different cars can be an issue and cited my incident as an example. Like any good driver (ahem!) I learn from incidents and change my ways accordingly. I think it's fair to say I am now more aware of the lack of ability of some cars and some drivers on winter roads with summer tyres still on and act accordingly (like slowing down earlier than I need to, to closer match what they "should" be doing).

I put some on last year, on all four wheels and noticed a big difference. have them on now and believe it saved some ****ts life when he walked out in front of me and then slipped on the ice, I managed to brake, and control the car even although it was icy underwheel.

People who are quibling over £50 - £80 per tyre, mine were £140 each and I still think it is cheap if it helps me avoid a crash, my normal tyres are £140 - £160 each though so I just see it as extending the life of my other tyres while being safer on the roads during winter.

I keep thinking about putting winter tyres on my vehicle because there is no doubt that the softer compounds and tread designs do improve traction for both moving and stopping.

But, and it's a big but... I've managed to get around safely for 38 years now without them, driving mostly in a hilly rural area. Now, I know we should embrace new technologies and all that but it's a big decision to spend a few hundred pounds for something that I've never actually needed... so far 😕

But, and it's a big but... I've managed to get around safely for 38 years now without them

I can guarantee that of something you think it essential, someone once thought they'd got along just fine without it for years.

When my wife was learning to deal with British roads we bought a £150 Fiesta MkIII that was automatic. She was approaching a traffic light controlled roundabout towards down and had to brake slightly harder than normal as someone changed lanes infront of her. When she returned she told me she thought something was wrong with the car because it skidded under only moderate braking.

I took the car out to the same spot and tried braking (empty road at this time) and the car did indeed skid. However, it behaved exactly like the Fiesta I'd learned to drive in, and that had seemed perfectly fine and normal in many tens of thousands of miles me and my Dad had done in it. But compared to our modern cheap small car (Ibiza) it was awful.

The moral of the story is that just because something has been a certain way for years and seems normal doesn't mean it's actually any good!

Wow! So much interest in tyres has pursuaded me to pop my snow chains in the classifieds.

convert - Member

I have little control over how close the car behind drives or when he chooses to start braking. What would you have done differently oh great oracle?

You have control over the space that you both have to slow down in.
If the chap behind can't stop in time, he's tailgating. The only thing to do when being tailgated is back off the throttle and increase your (and his) braking zone.