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25 Years driving - 11 years in the alps = 300 odd weeks of driving on snow
How does your "30 years" measure up 😉
I drove through 2 winters with just fronts on the old car, now got a full set on the new one.
So- full set definitely not[i] needed[/i]. There's considerable benefits to improving the steering and drive traction alone or course, and despite what some think you also gain braking benefits- just not as much. Car was much more manageable. Of course the rear will still slide more easily, but a rear wheel slide is better than a 4 wheel slide, and there are circumstances where the front would usually slide but the back wouldn't- in those, you have more control outright.
It did help that the rear drum brakes on my Focus were gash- not an uncommon situation!
But, it's definitely better to do both ends, no question.
The other day I got a chance to really test my new Snowproxes- they've been doing well in snow, heavy rain and freezing roads for a while now but inners car park turned into a proper icerink last saturday, sheets of glassy wet ice- deadly to walk on. Every other car I saw try to navigate it had problems, though some did look like user error tbh. In mine, no fuss whatsoever. It could be made to slide of course, but it was easily drivable without significant special effort.
I rounded it off with a proper sliding session though of course 
ok shouddawouddacoudda im bailing out now. its been emotional
NOKIAN. They're made from a 'greener' rubber which is made from corn oil, which means the particulates which come off them when they wear aren't as harmfull or toxic.
Plus they're made in Finland sold and used around scandanavia, so they're bound to be good. 🙂
Hmmm. I'd say two will give big advantages over none, but be slightly iffier in some situations than 4 (on a fwd). I'd buy two, drive carefully, and save the cash. Possibly better than being lulled into a sense of (over)confidence in your set of four winter tyres as well...
On a front wheel drive car, the rear wheels are just there for the ride, really, unless you are, umm, making progress...
Hate those yellow smilies...
25 Years driving - 11 years in the alps = 300 odd weeks of driving on snow
AWESOME.
You knows it.
I rounded it off with a proper sliding session though of course
Haha, It's got to be done, hasn't it? Reminds me of a happy end to a night shift doing doughnuts in a rear wheel drive volvo ambulance, at 5am on a Sunday morning on a deserted hospital carpark... 8) 😆
Thinking of fitting these to my truck - I'll be sure to wave 😀
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I have ultragrips on my a4. unstoppable last year. Buy a set of 4 to save your summer tyres. No brainer if you have spare wheels and space to store them.
Thinking of fitting these to my truck - I'll be sure to wave
From every petrol station you pass?
Thinking of fitting these to my truck - I'll be sure to wave... As I go sliding uncontrollably down the slight incline with a little bit of frost on it...)
Fixed that for ya! 😉 I run these as road tyres on my Ninety, I love them because they last FOREVER. Not because of their cold weather grip... I think they are made from the hardest rubber known to man, 70k miles on one set is not unheard of.
Thinking of fitting these to my truck - I'll be sure to wave
Make sure the size you need has the snowflake symbol on the sidewall, as some/most sizes don't and are a [b]very [/b]hard compound and shocking on icy roads !
Vredestein Snowtrac3s (185/65/15 =£60ish) front and rear on a 2005 Berlingo. The difference between standard tyres and winters is more than night and day. Will cope with 1'/30cm of fresh snow no problem. Successfully drove up the forest road into Pitmedden Forest last weekend when the surface was un-stand-uppable-on.
I run them from October to April on steelies from the scrappy. Cost was £50 for 4 wheels
You'll get numpties who say you can't pull away in 1'/30cm of snow, that traction control is just as good, that they're a waste of money, but that is simply because they haven't experienced the difference. Or they dogmatically refuse to accept it...
I did one winter with only front wheels on winters. Performed a 180deg spin on A93 by the Baddoch at about 55mph. "Luckily" ended up in a snowdrift that I reversed out of with no damage. It is easy to get complacent thinking your grip will never end so a sensible approach is still required.
I now run all 4 winters, however I experienced total loss of control at about 50mph on black ice in a dry night at the top of Glen Eagles/Glen Devon just after last New Year. Fully side to side through at least 45deg on a narrow rural A road. I nearly filled my pants as the verge and telegraph poles flashed through the two individual spots from the headlights - we were THAT close - and I was convinced that the result would be a write-off, and was more trying to crash in controlled way so my pal and I would walk away, but miraculously managed to remain in control - of the car, not my heartrate. Drove home very slowly, talking through the incident with my pal. Our conclusion was without the winters we'd have been in big trouble and with standard "summer tyres" I'd never have regained control. It freaked me out, but you live and learn... It is better to be lucky than good.
I have gone down the route of buying all season tyres with a snow bias. Just got a set of Sava Adapto HP all season tyres from Mytyres. These are made by Goodyear in Slovakia. They get a great review in Autobild, 4 stars in the snow. Sixty quid a corner. I have driven cars in all weathers front and rear wheel drive, if I was driving a beemer I would put 4 snow tyres on. On my Mondy I have 4 snow tyres but it wouldn't bother me to have just two on the front if money was tight.
Might re-think the BFG's based on the above 🙄
Also as per jam bo's post - I'd previously checked the fuel efficiency rating against my current tyres and it came up the same, but just checked Blackcircles and they are one rating worse
Might re-think the BFG's based on the above
Ah, don't! You'll never have to buy tyres for that truck again! For one of two reasons...
If you have decent grip on the front and next to none on the back, what do you think would happen if you try and go around a corner?
Badass drift 8) 😕
I was about to post along those lines already mentioned regarding the BFG's, they'll be next to useless in icy/snowy conditions as they have no sipes in the tread pattern, however once you slide off the road into the ditch i'm sure you'll manage to find traction with that chunky tread to pull yourself out so it's not all bad news 😀
Jez -love you too! Hugs, n all.
Aaaaarggghhh - new thread time.
It's worse than finding friggin bike tyres - I really am struggling.
So what do you want to know TAFKASTR?
They do a version of the BFG AT that's rated for winter use.
You just need to find them that's all.
The winter ones are pretty good. We had a VW T25 Syncro with them on and it would get up and down the mountain passes all winter no problem.
The BFGs are FAR from useless in snow/ice, more, umm, entertaining, is all. I guarantee you would never be stuck, you just need to remember that they may slip and drive appropriately.
....another vote for the Vredestein Stowtrac, I am now running my set for the 3rd winter and still 7/8mm tread left (several trips to europe/alps etc).
I would never be without them now, even if we did not travel to the alps every year.
My dad (in holland) has changed his tyres (and wheels) every winter for as long as I can remember. His set of wheels thats not in use is in storage at the tyre place he uses. Very common arrangement in Holland.
My husband has some winter tyres for sale (only 2, not a full set), he has changed cars (accident, long story) and these dont fit the new car. Can check size if interested? They are Nokian tyres.
I recommend getting 4 though..If you can, just get a spare set of wheels and change the wheels. We got ours used.
Simone
petrieboy - MemberI have ultragrips on my a4. unstoppable last year.
Doesn't sound ideal!
Not sure if we resolved this, but winters on all 4 corners.. you want to think of winter tyres as for helping you STOP.. not GO!
fwd with winters on all 4 is far better than 4x4 with regular tyres.
almost every car I see off in the ditch on the highway here when the snow falls is some Vancouver weekend warrior thinking his 4x4 is invincible in the snow.
Probably of no direct comparison, but Michelin X-Ice2's are great as far as ice traction and wear rate. Not as good as others in slush or snow, but you'll be doing better than everyone else around you so happy days.
Michelin alpin here, to take the thread back to a sensible level. Brilliant on the sheet ice we had here in Sheffield last week, so much so I nearly fell on my bum as I'd not appreciated how bad it was.
To go back to the snow chains on the BMW one series and Neal glover being, well, Neal. I thought the bm was rear drive and that the chains were on the wrong end.............maybe me!
Goodyear vector Allseasons do really well in the tests if you want a set of year round tyres, rather than a second set of wheels. Got mine through mytyres for my Quattro.
Are winter tyres OK to use when it gets milder - they just wear faster? Or is max speed restricted as well and MPG adversely affected? I need to change my tyres anyway but have never bothered with winter tyres in the past and not really regretted it so wouldn't want a dedicated set, it's just whether I replace my tyres with a set now and use them through summer as well (if they last that long).
Typically rated for 112 mph, so you should be fine. In the warmer weather compared to normal summer tyres, they feel a little more vague, are a little less grippy and wear a bit quicker, but it's a better idea than running summer tyres in the winter.
All tyres should be like winter tyres all year round but they would wear out too fast so standard tyres are a compromise between grip and durability.
We fitted Fulda Cristall Monteros to Mrs Gti's C1, I think they were about £40 each a few years ago, they were absolutely excellent especially as the C1 is good at any tme in snow with narrow tyres and a diesel engine over the driving wheels. On icy packed snow you could stop and pull away on an "out of the saddle" climb with no drama.
Now she has an Ibiza and I got some Avon Ice Touring tyres for about £42 each from MyTyres. Haven't tested them yet but the silicon content is so high that they make my hands sticky when I handle them. I got a set of wheels for £80 off Ebay and fitting/balancing was £10 a tyre.
The Ibiza comes with no spare wheel or tool kit so in summer one of the winter wheels will sit in the boot with a tool kit we got off Eblag and now in winter she's got one of the summer tyres.
My own Passat comes on standard tyres and so far I've had no problems in snow and ice; it's all about momentum and throttle control.
Or is max speed restricted as well and MPG adversely affected?
They come in speed ratings the same as normal tyres. All they are is normal tyres with different rubber, tread pattern and depth, nothing weird. My WR G2s are rated 130mph.
MPG is not necessarily affected. The WR G2s on the Passat were way better than the Dunlop Sport they replaced because they (like most winter tyres) are silica compound which makes them 'energy saving' low rolling resistance. This also makes them last longer than normal summre tyres, but not as long as summer energy saving tyres.
it's all about momentum and throttle control
No it's not!
Wonder what insurance would say if you had an accident and had winter tyres on the front of a FWD car only?
I'd be interested to see if insurance companies used mixed winter and summer tyres for "wriggle room" in an accident that involved loss of control etc.
As an aside, insurance companies used to get a bit sniffy about winter tyres labelling them a modification - some even tried to charge more for having them on the car. Situation seems to have improved. Our car (can't believe I'm admitting this on a blokey internet forum) is insured through Sheila's wheels (wife is main driver, though it was bloody embarrasing when exchanging insurance details when she was not in the car!) and they now send out a winter email with advise as to how to stay safe in winter conditions (how to regain control in a slide, how to descend a steep icey slope - basic but quite good I thought) and they now recommend drivers consider switching to them for the colder months.
Changing car so have a set of 4 for sale - Leeds/Bradford area
Hankook W310 205/55 R16 - £100 5,000 miles only (no offers)
Pirelli Snowcontrol's on both my (FWD) cars and they have lasted the last 3 winters.
I drive a variety of cars for work including 4x4's and for snow/ice/cold I would choose my cars on winter tyres over the 4x4's on normal tyres.
And here's a video of a winter tyre test
[url= http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/sports-car-winter-tyre-test ]http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/sports-car-winter-tyre-test[/url]
*jealous*
All tyres should be like winter tyres all year round but they would wear out too fast so standard tyres are a compromise between grip and durability.
I don't entirely agree with that, my experience of winter tyres in warmer weather is that they are too flexible and the car becomes unstable in emergency lane change manouvers that wouldn't unsettle it on summer tyres.
My wife had a crash on the dual carrige way when a truck pulled out of a lay-by without spotting her and she had to emergency brake and change lanes to miss it. The car went into momentum oversteer and after 2 or 3 good attempts to catch it she finally lost it and we parked rear first into the central barrier (I was in the passenger seat). Nothing serious in the end, no-one hurt and didn't hit any other cars but it was a pretty big one and could have been properly messy. This was as the weather was begining to warm up again in the spring and the car was still on winter tyres. I've driven the car (a Forester) on the winters and on normal tyres and that instability is only there on winter tyres in warmer weather. I've noted the same thing with both of my last two cars, as the weather warms up they start to feel nasty on winter tyres in a way that they didn't in the cold weather. It's how I know it's time to swap the tyres on my car (a BM 530d FWIW), it starts to want to swap ends very easily on the summers as it gets cold and then again on the winers as it gets warm.
Obviously your experiences may vary dependent on the cars and tyres concerned.
How warm was it?
My wife had a crash on the dual carrige way when a truck pulled out of a lay-by without spotting her and she had to emergency brake and change lanes to miss it.
Sounds like user error to me...
Hmm, maybe 12 deg C and a slightly damp surface. It feels fine at this time of year and it feels fine on summer tyres when it's warm. I think the flexible design of the tread and soft rubber just allows the tread blocks all to shuffle and the whole thing just takes on a massive slip angle. It was a proper tank slapper too at about 60, swung to about 45 degrees each way across both lanes (no other cars around fortunately) before going all the way round and off backwards to the right. Ended up hitting the barrier fairly gently and we were able to drive it out and stop in a lay-by to swap out a bent wheel (from mounting the kerb sideways / backwards at the end) before finishing our journey. Wouldn't like to do it again, that's for sure.
How warm was it?
probably overly simplified but 7 degrees tends to be the magic number
[img] http://www.e90post.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=590695&stc=1&d=1318165981 [/img]
however in the UK the average temp in the sort of areas where most of the population lives only drops below 7 degrees for a few weeks each year - but how do you guess which weeks those will be, I was driving in minus temps in late august this year. Thats why we don't have legislation for winter tyres, our climate doesn't warrant it. Most winters, on most journeys on any given day you could drive in temps that are well above and well below 7 degs