[Closed] Windows fans/mac haters...

iMovie is really limited compared to a proper bit of software though but I guess it depends how in depth you want to get.

Lets me browse and organise clips, scrub through them easily, trim them, stick them together adding transitions and layer on some audio, all I need really.

you might as well just torrent your software.

Did you see the bit where I said I write software for a living... I'm not about to start stealing it. Good software takes a phenomenal amount of effort to produce. I'm not sure a recommendation of "use X, Y and Z but I wouldn't pay money for it" holds much weight.

Is there still a Windows Live Movie maker?

Edit: yes

MS Visio is a good program for your diagrams, a bunch of us got it free (Dreamspark before anyone lights a pitchtorch) and it was well recieved. I'd have to be sure I wanted it mind, £225 for a flowchart maker is quite steep!

Not sure if Dreamspark licence would be breached if you got a trial of it, you definitely cannot do anything commercial with it though so it would have to bea strict trial (assuming you can find someone willing to do that for you).

re OneNote; If your in the Google services already - Google keep?

It's a Chrome app - xplatform(win,mac,iP..,droid). Once you add it as a chrome app, it's available from launcher/dock etc. you can even remove Chrome then if you prefer..

Aperture a bit trickier, even if it is EOL.

For free/iPhoto's equivlnt basic edit/organise on Win -> Picasa? (Google again, but you don't have to sign in)..

Offbeat suggestion: IF you can bear life in a browser, Chromebook pixel? HiDPI, touch, good performance, sideload Crouton for GIMP or other essential stuff browser apps suck at. (Ligthroom/Aperture gap is why I keep Win&Mac personally). But 92.5% of screen time is on the rather nice Pixle screen..

For the reasons I keep a Win/Mac: Adobe do keep promising a remoted Lightroom/Photoshop service for Chromebooks - but right now it's limited to academic plans. The target storage must be Google drive as well (I understand).

Then the cloud slurp could be complete! (but I can see the attraction personally).

Is there still a Windows Live Movie maker?

Will have a look, did try it a while back and it was bobbins but maybe improved.

MS Visio is a good program for your diagrams

I've used Visio (work, and old versions when I was a student) and it's ok, but no Omnigraffle. I've less/little need to diagram at home now these days so it's not a big issue.

re OneNote; If your in the Google services already - Google keep?

I thought about it, and had a look, but I'm iOS for mobile devices and there's no good support. Early days yet but I'm actually quite liking onenote. However that's just two days of usage compared to years with simplenote so we'll see how it goes.

For free/iPhoto's equivlnt basic edit/organise on Win -> Picasa? (Google again, but you don't have to sign in)..

I'll check it out, though I suspect I'll end up wanting Lightroom, partly as it should be able to import my Aperture library properly, and be able to set up auto-import from photostream etc.

Offbeat suggestion: IF you can bear life in a browser, Chromebook pixel?

I did think about this, or lesser spec machines, but my issue is mostly disk space. All my photos etc need to live *somewhere* and i'm not quite ready for that to go full cloud yet, I could get a NAS...but then that's adding complexity etc and they're not with me when I'm elsewhere...maybe that doesn't matter...but not quite sure I'm ready to take the leap yet. Also performance with pics on a NAS still won't be that good, even on 5Ghz AC wifi. It's "ok" on my current setup (database and previews on SSD, masters on HDD).

I'm not quite ready to go "full cloud" as I kinda want my own backups... but I do see the attraction. I've heavily used cloud services of various forms as I ran two macs for years, plus ipad and a phone of some sort (various OS) and wanted access to stuff on all machines.

Chrome books can have lots of local storage.

I though the pixel was up to 64gb? Any with a 512 or 1 Tb SSD?

I'm not gonna be getting a device with a HDD, they have their place but it's not been in anything other than a server for me for years.

I doubt a chromebook is a good option for me, but I did ponder it briefly.

The fact that most PCs don't seem to come with PCIe/NVMe SSDs is slightly off putting TBH, if I'm getting a new machine I don't want old tech in it, and IME fast disk makes a big difference.

*

I've had nothing but mac since 1996. there have been times at random jobs were I've worked on pc's. i think there are plus and minus points for both systems and you can do practically anything on either.

suppose its the same as other stuff (like wheel sizes!!) were 'the quality of the journey' comes into it. and i personally like the way the mac interface looks and works. despite many doing extremely serious stuff on computers (more serious that me and graphic design), i think its important to enjoy the process of 'working your computer'. my new mac pro is the most underwhelming object ever (a sith r2d2) and outrageously capably of everything i throw at it and pleasant in doing so...

its all very rigid 29er/fat frontish...

I have to say, iOS looked great to me a few years ago, but now I reckon it looks dated. Windows 8 and 10 otoh I love, aesthetically speaking.

The fact that most PCs don't seem to come with PCIe/NVMe SSDs is slightly off putting TBH, if I'm getting a new machine I don't want old tech in it, and IME fast disk makes a big difference.

All my photos etc need to live *somewhere* and i'm not quite ready for that to go full cloud yet, I could get a NAS...but then that's adding complexity etc and they're not with me when I'm elsewhere...maybe that doesn't matter...but not quite sure I'm ready to take the leap yet. Also performance with pics on a NAS still won't be that good, even on 5Ghz AC wifi. It's "ok" on my current setup (database and previews on SSD, masters on HDD).

Unless you need everything all the time then a NAS is a much better option, keep a complete backup off your main machine and take what you need when you need it. I'm editing 1080 video over wired off a NAS with no real issues at the moment, yes not as fast as a SSD locally but I don't need to have a few TB of drives stuffed into a machine. Keep the working stuff local and the rest remote.

My adobe subscription gives me cloud storage/sync for the stuff I'm playing with at the time and pics and everything else on google drive or dropbox and on hand to DL and get to if I want.

Unless you need everything all the time then a NAS is a much better option,

Until you're burgled, or the house burns down, or some other site-wide disaster.

Has the OP cracked, realised the true path, and just gone and bought a Macbook Air/Pro yet?

Until you're burgled, or the house burns down, or some other site-wide disaster.

I offsite archive everything occasionally and online backup everything automatically too, that doesn't worry me too much.

Has the OP cracked, realised the true path, and just gone and bought a Macbook Air/Pro yet?

I've already got a pro and bought a windows machine, read the OP 😉

And my follow up post - I'll not buy a new pro (unnecessarily bulky) or air (low res screen).

So far in answer to my OP - no one's held up some software and said "this is some great software and a reason to switch to windows"

I've already got a pro and bought a windows machine, read the OP

Oh, I read the OP, OP. I'm just telling you how this is going to go 😀

Maybe 🙂

I'm giving windows a fair shot though, and there are things I like better about it so far.

So far in answer to my OP - no one's held up some software and said "this is some great software and a reason to switch to windows"

Well the definition of 'great' depends on what you need, doesn't it?

Well maybe, let me decide that. If no one can provide examples of software that's great on windows, maybe there's no great software only "good enough" and I should stick with mac?

E.g. I gave some examples of software that I think is great on mac, and not anywhere else. Omnigraffle and texshop/bibdesk in particular are so good for what they do I used a mac for work when I had a provided PC that would cost me nothing.

Isn't this all faintly ridiculous, though? As someone could recommend a fantastic bit of software for airbrushing the nipples off of cats, but if that's not what you're into, then it's of no use.

You got to set some parameters, dude. Otherwise there will be anarchy.

Also, to go back to the OP, you stated a touchscreen was what drew you to Windows machines. So isn't that enough? In that you can interact with the same software, just in your preferred way?

If no one can provide examples of software that's great on windows,

If that were true, there wouldn't be a variation on "how do I install Windows on my Mac" / "how do I make this Windows software run on my Mac" / "what's the Mac equivalent of this Windows software" threads oh here on pretty much a weekly basis.

But what boogiesomething said is right - what are you looking for? You don't buy a hole saw and then go "right, can anyone recommend me something I can cut holes into?"

Eg, STW, last week:

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/which-windows-emulator-for-mac

I can recommend you some great games, office products, retro computing emulators, network analysis tools, notepad replacements, FTP clients, instant messaging tools... give us a clue!

Also, to go back to the OP, you stated a touchscreen was what drew you to Windows machines. So isn't that enough? In that you can interact with the same software, just in your preferred way?

It might be, but I'm not sure - so I bought a windows machine to try it. Now I've got it, maybe I'm missing some good stuff so I thought I'd start a thread to find out. I know what I use on my mac, and what of that I can use on windows, but maybe there's stuff I don't know about because I can't use it on my mac? What cool things can I do with this holesaw I've got now that I didn't know about?

great games, office products, retro computing emulators, network analysis tools, notepad replacements, FTP clients, instant messaging tools... give us a clue!

I'm into all that - so please, crack on!

Got notepad++ for that, I have a steam box I use for games but more recommendations always good. A good FTP/sftp client would be handy. Something to scan wifi channels/monitor a connection etc would be handy too.

More specifically:

Mapping software - something to view OS maps and plot a GPX trail.
Something to let me map touch gestures?
Something to set per-app DPI scaling, or any way to improve the seeming mess that is hiDPI support in windows? (though I guess win8 might sort that, or getting a machine high enough res to run 200% scaling and pixel doubling might look neater where it's crap).
Alternatives to Premiere/Lightroom

You got to set some parameters, dude. Otherwise there will be anarchy.

If it's an anarchy of good software recommendations that's great. That's the sort of thing that would inspire me to switch to windows - knowing there was a wealth of great software to do whatever I want. E.g. that's a big reason people use iOS. I'd love to hear there's great nipples-off-cats airbrushing software, after all, if that exists, there must be other great software right?

Ok then. IBM business process manager, the client tooling only works on Windows. Very powerful tool for transforming your company's working practices that.

Also I am pretty sure Visual Studio is only available on Windows, that's essential for creating Windows Phone apps.

Cheers, I'd been meaning to look into what languages/targets are supported by VS recently actually, I seem to recall reading it's decent for some web services stuff and the latest Azure offerings are interesting.

IBM stuff less useful to me but the recommendation is still helpful, supports the impression "windows for serious business"

Got notepad++

... is the right answer. (-:

I have a steam box I use for games but more recommendations always good.

You could do worse than trawl GoG and subscribe to the Humble Bundle newsletter. I've enough games to last me till the grandchildren I don't have die.

A good FTP/sftp client would be handy.

FTP - Filezilla.

Alternatives to Premiere/Lightroom
Picasa is a half-decent Lightroom-lite.

 

IBM stuff less useful to me

I was being sarcastic. Business Process Manager is of no use to you unless you are running a large business 🙂

All I use at home is Chrome, Tracklogs, Garmin plugin for Strava, Office, Elements and.. er.. not sure what else.

At work I use eclipse, Office, and non-platform specific email client. Oh and VMware workstation. jEdit for text editing, SoapUI for testing, HermesJMS. Oh, RFHUtil is only available for Windows... 🙂

Not do derail the thread too much, but have we figured out what things the £180 laptop can do *better* than than a mac yet? And no, being cheaper isn't one of them.

Also, was there a link to this £180 laptop?

Inoreader for RSS, site opens in browser not a separate app so platform agnostic. (I switched to it when NetNewsWire went titsup when Google shut their news feeds).

have we figured out what things the £180 laptop can do *better* than than a mac yet? And no, being cheaper isn't one of them.

Being cheaper is the only thing a £180 laptop has got going for it, obviously. But it's quite an important factor 🙂

Finally people are coming up with some nice suggestions for me to chase up, thanks 🙂

For a decent laptop about £180 check out the HP Stream 11 - £200 tho I think.

Of course it's in no way better than a more expensive one (Mac or otherwise) but let's not go back there again...!

The software I sell, fairly awesome at what it does and not available for Mac, though if your not in the field not much use and quite expensive.

have we figured out what things the £180 laptop can do *better* than than a mac yet? And no, being cheaper isn't one of them.

Yep, think I did a couple of pages ago, 90% of basic web use and the rest of the low intensity stuff most people actually do for a fraction of the cost of a mac or ipad.

Ok I'll bite. It's not better at that stuff, it's worse.

It's a worse screen, lower res with not as sharp text, worse colour gamut. The keyboard and trackpad won't be as nice, it may be bulkier. It'll render pages slower, it'll load pages slower and transfer files slower etc. Materials won't feel as nice when using it.

Now, some people don't care or notice these things, but it is objectively worse. It's also objectively cheaper.

Now, some people don't care or notice these things, but it is objectively worse. It's also objectively cheaper.

Biting...

The revolution in personal computing was putting the tech in the hands of millions, most don't GAS about the color gamut of the niceness of the keyboard or how the material feels. People want something that works, does a job and does what they need to.
http://store.apple.com/uk/buy-mac/macbook/silver-256gb
at 1k it doesn't seem like it's the right tool for everyone.

I agree with all that, the point I'm arguing is:

My wife's £180 laptop will do a lot of things better than a mac

Which wasn't from you - but the point is this £180 laptop will do nothing better, but it will cost less.

Maybe my OP should have said:

"Ignoring cost and hardware, why should I switch to Windows? Recommend me some great software as examples."

But hey, I was trying to attract the usual trolling to some extent, as surely the folk that come on strong with the arguing have good software they like on windows and the reason isn't just that you can get a cheaper machine? Or maybe it is, the reason is just "it's cheaper and good enough".

Assuming money is no object, it really is down to personal preference unless there is some specific piece of software you have to have. For general productivity there are alternatives on both; it's the specifics like a tool for work or the drivers for some piece of hardware that are only on one platform.

Ignoring cost and hardware, why should I switch to Windows?

There's no reason to switch - they are both good platforms.

When I was looking for a new laptop that could handle video editing I considered something from Apple as they are supposed to be good at that sort of thing. I ended up with a Windows laptop only because to get the same job done it was a little cheaper and I didn't have to learn a new OS, replace some software I already had, stuff like that.

So I'm going to agree with Molgrips post above.

Of course you have said you'd like a touch screen and that will limit your choice.

have we figured out what things the £180 laptop can do *better* than than a mac yet?

arduino environment, dropbox integration, range of free software.

These things all matter to me - what arduino dev env do you use?

What's better about Dropbox on windows - I use it a lot?

What free software do you find essential?

Microsoft Surface could be a good reason to switch for some. Little bigger than an iPad but can run all your Windows software. More powerful than most basic laptops in fact.

The surface pro is what appeals to me - but too expensive to make a blind leap of faith, hence testing windows first.

Or maybe it is, the reason is just "it's cheaper and good enough".

To be honest, I think that's a large part of it. The counterpoint is, why pay three times the price for a premium product which ostensibly does the same thing?

The real strength in a PC is its agnosticism I reckon. For a given application, there's almost certainly a Windows version and 'probably' a Mac version. As I said before, there's been plenty of threads from Mac users wanting help because they need a Windows application; in over 20 years of using a PC I've never found myself thinking "wow, I really need a Mac for this, there's no alternative" and never seen a thread asking that question. Though, I have seen situations where I've had to crack out a Linux environment, which I suppose is comparable.

It's similar at a hardware level IME. You've got a gamut of hardware which you can use internally or externally on a Windows box, whereas with a Mac there can be compatibility issues. I've seen Mac upgrade threads where stuff will only work on specific OSX revisions or certain hardware models (anecdotally from memory, I don't have examples and no doubt I'm about to be told I'm wrong).

So yeah. Market dominance is the PC's strength I reckon. It's usually the first platform for developers (in the same way that iPhone often is for mobile development, though that's changing) so you can pretty much guarantee that whatever you need there will be a way of doing it. Some things may be better on Mac - Mac is traditionally the tool of choice for stuff like Photoshop work and iTunes is terrible on Windows - though I've never really heard how "better" is quantified. Comparing a Mac to a budget PC, you'll find things like better screens as someone else mentioned, but it's not really comparing like with like. You can get [url= http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/laptop/3503505/acer-aspire-s3-392g-ultrabook-review/ ]a PC laptop with a HD IPS display[/url], but it'll set you back £900 not £300.

FTP/SCP: WinSCP or Filezilla (find myself using the former more these days)
SSH/Telnet: KiTTY (Putty variant), with SuperPutty to manage windows
Picture editing: Paint.NET
Photo management: Picasa
Coding/Scripting: Notepad++
Zip files: 7zip
Packet sniffing: Wireshark
Audio ripping/encoding: EAC
Film encoding: Handbrake
Home movie editing: Not something I do too often but Windows Movie Maker (or whatever it's new name is) did the job well enough.
System stats: Process Explorer

None of the above leave me in awe, but seem to do their jobs very well, although many need settings tweaks to get the best out of them.

These things all matter to me - what arduino dev env do you use?

What's better about Dropbox on windows - I use it a lot?

What free software do you find essential?

not trying to make a pc>mac point, just listing what I use reasonably regularly.

That's perfect through - I don't want anyone to make the point. I want software suggestions so that I can try stuff out and make the decision myself informed by experience actually using both platforms extensively.

So thanks all for the good lists of suggestions I'm finally getting 🙂

The point about Linux is interesting - it's partly why I went to Mac in the first place 12 years ago. Instead of needing to reboot into Linux (no VMs then) I could run or recompile my software on OSX as its proper Unix.

but too expensive to make a blind leap of faith,

Not exactly blind - there are plenty of happy Windows users around 🙂 Both platforms are good, as long as you are prepared to learn and appreciate the ways, rather than just moan about the differences like some people seem to.

notepad++

Notepad++ is bloody awful, please stop using it and let it die like it should've 15 years ago.

I think the UI of Windows 8 and 10 will be a draw, at least for me. Live tiles are great on my phone, would be even better on a PC.