[Closed] windows 8

Can you not upgrade to 8.1? I just bought my daughter an HP laptop with 8.1 and she uses the "old" style Win7 desktop.

12 months and you still can't figure it out? Shocking.

8.1 is a big improvement, in my limited experience. There's also a 'classic shell' program you can get.

8.1 all the way.

As Scotroutes says, get it to boot into 'desktop' on win 8.1 and it is dead easy. If you end up in the 'odd new' desktop, just hit the window key.
Have you tried some of the online 'how to' guides? I had a colleague who is a complete IT luddite get a new laptop - I gave him a video and a couple of online articles, and he now loves it.

I've got 8 on here.
It's shite. (IMO)

you MIGHT be able to downgrade, but as i discovered there are a lot of drivers that might not exist! my SO's laptop has no usb for an example!

Download Classic shell.

You can make windows 8 look like vista or 7 or XP but with the speed of 8.

I wouldn't have got 8 if classic shell hadn't existed.

12 months and you still can't figure it out? Shocking.

Let he who [s]is without sin[/s] has not started loads of IT help threads, cast the first stone.

Cheers cool hand luke, where would i download classic shell from I'm a computer dinasaur

http://www.classicshell.net/

I dislike it with intensity, cant understand why I have to go through an extra stage with just about every operation, need to buy a new scanner cos my old one wont work, and wheres my recent documents eh ?

What extra stage?

I preferred this little gizmo over the 8.1 rehash.

http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/
once you get past the Metro interface its not a huge deal different to Win7 but seems to be tweaked a little better in data transfer rates etc.

Pretty much all corporate users are buying / using W7 (on new machines), so nearly all laptops will have W7 compatibility.

as i discovered there are a lot of drivers that might not exist! my SO's laptop has no usb for an example!

I'd be absolutely shocked if that were the case. Want me to take a look?

got so annoyed at how useless it was....now running ubuntu....very happy

I've used both. U-bloody-buntu is a far greater pain in the arse.

"How can we differentiate ourselves from Windows?"
"I know, let's put the close and minimise icons on the LEFT of the window instead of the right! Great idea!"

🙄

haha true molgrips but you can actually just set them to be which ever side you like

Moving back (or forwards really) to windows 7 is easy if you can get hold of a copy.... It's very hard to buy these days.

Just go the HP site and see if there is a W7 driver pack for the laptop, if there is it will (should) work fine. Done it with a Dell here. As for not getting on with 8 there is no real issue with it, most of the world is slow to change windows versions as normally every other version is crap. Wait until things settle down a bit.

Used Windows 8.1 for around a month. Got to the point where its inconvenience was minimal. However I've just installed classic shell and its like returning to a favourite old pair of slippers.

I'd be absolutely shocked if that were the case. Want me to take a look?

I'll dig out the model number later if you want, but I went to the HP site and it did say no drivers, and there was nothing I could find to get the usb functional.

It is a HP Pavillion G6 of some description that shipped with win8. due to an accident the HD got broken and I happened to have win7 install discs, but no way of reinstalling win8 easily.

Moving back (or forwards really) to windows 7 is easy if you can get hold of a copy.... It's very hard to buy these days.

Need to find a friendly corp IT guy, we have generic install package on a server so I can put W7 on any machine (as long as it's connected to our LAN). W7 is still the de-facto standard in the corp world.

you mean piracy footflaps?

ubuntu is rubbish use linux mint 16 the best linux os
an easy for windyhoes heads to get to grips with.
you should still have a copy of windows for windy native software as wine emu sucks but gaming an music making use windy hoes
for browsing the web use linux, theres good photo an video software
audio rippers dvd rippers iso tools , make an old pc faster ,windyhoes is slow

windows is a buggy drm fest with the need for req updates
security programs, and angry rage

but i find if i ever need to run a windows program(not gaming tho) i just
use xp in virtual box in linux.

runs stable an never get blue screen crashes, boots much quicker.

hackers love to target windows as there are more users to be milked

I'll dig out the model number later if you want, but I went to the HP site and it did say no drivers

That just means HP don't provide them, because they don't sell the system with that OS. There's a possibility that if you put "Windows 8" as your OS and get those drivers instead, they'll work with W7.

Go into Device Manager, right-click on the device and pick Properties. Go to Details and change the Property to "hardware IDs." This will give you the unique PCI "fingerprint" for that device. Google the longest one (you can right-click / copy to save typing).

Chances are, it's some sort of Intel controller. I'd hazard that running the hardware detection on [url= http://www.intel.com/p/en_US/support/detect ]Intel's website[/url] will snag whatever you need to make it work.

Of course, the Intel update won't work if the chipset is Nvidia or AMD or some such, but the principle is the same. Chipset drivers underpin everything else, if they're not in place you're always going to have driver problems.

you should still have a copy of windows

If you run an OS, and have to have a second OS on hand for the things your first OS can't do, then it's failed as an OS.

"You need to keep a copy of Linux around for all the things Windows can't do" said no-one, ever.

ubuntu is rubbish use linux mint 16 the best linux os

What's wrong with Ubuntu? I've been using it for years, I could give Mint a go though.

If you run an OS, and have to have a second OS on hand for the things your first OS can't do, then it's failed as an OS.

Hmm well only only need Windows because most people use MS Office so although the Linux office options can work with MS Office docs they're not perfect - bit unfortunate. Thing is though that the money saved by not buying the MS stuff is significant so shame more people aren't comfortable using Linux.

BTW, I'm really put off going for Windows now as seems so controlled to restrict piracy - re-installing it seems problematic.

Mint is a much nicer distro than Ubuntu my limited recent experience.

It's hardly a viable alternative to Windows for newbies though. I've had plenty of issues with hardware and software is a bit of a mess. The 'app store' type thing is great but there seems to be dozens of home made apps to do the same thing slightly differently which is going to be confusing for a newbie I reckon.

And Libre Office is not a patch on MS Office.

And Libre Office is not a patch on MS Office.

No, but IME the majority of people "need" Office when Wordpad would suffice.

No, but IME the majority of people "need" Office when [s]Wordpad[/s] a type writer and a calculator would suffice.

Cougar:

"You need to keep a copy of Linux around for all the things Windows can't do" said no-one, ever.

Says me, constantly. As a UNIX man managing UNIX through windows is an absolute pain in the bum. Even VNC sessions to a true UNIX desktop is a pain through windows.

"Why do you need *nix" - "because I have *nix" is a bit of a tautology, is it not? (-:

I've never had a problem with VNC, used to use UltraVNC to connect to all manner of things. Though when I have to remote manage Linux boxen I'll use PuTTY rather than VNC.

If you run an OS, and have to have a second OS on hand for the things your first OS can't do, then it's failed as an OS.

"You need to keep a copy of Linux around for all the things Windows can't do" said no-one, ever.

thats like saying use one bike for road an downhill

there are pros an cons to both os

there is no ultimate os , mac linux windyhoes are all like tools in a tool box
an 4mm wont fit a 5mm use which fits the job in hand or take 1 tool an get caught short

 

Cougar - Moderator
If you run an OS, and have to have a second OS on hand for the things your first OS can't do, then it's failed as an OS.

"You need to keep a copy of Linux around for all the things Windows can't do" said no-one, ever.

That's nonsense.

No, I think it's spot on 🙂

Anyway there's nothing wrong with Linux as an OS. It's the Linux ecosystem that's the problem. Well, I say problem - it's just different... and it has advantages.

"Why do you need *nix" - "because I have *nix" is a bit of a tautology, is it not? (-:

Nope, unless the Windows team - that need Windows to manage their Windows servers are also tautologous. I'm much more efficient managing *nix through *nix, in the same way the Windows team are with their work. Can I do it using Windows? Possibly, but keeping copies of Linux on other machines to use for management due to the size of the estate.

I've never had a problem with VNC, used to use UltraVNC to connect to all manner of things. Though when I have to remote manage Linux boxen I'll use PuTTY rather than VNC.

I use PuTTY to connect to other Linux boxes which I use as a hopping point for the production Linux/AIX/Solaris/HPUX boxen. When you're talking thousands of servers you can't log into each, you need a good regime with trusted servers (note: not windows). We use VNC for oracle/TDP/SAP installs, but that again requires more Linux machines/VMs for somewhere to VNC into, especially with firewalls.

Windows has its place but it is not the only thing out there. I could happily do my job without Windows. Everything I need could be done through a web-based interface, including office documents.

And windows 8 is still poo! 😛

As this is already well off topic....
I have a Linux partition on my laptop so I can keep work and home seperate if I need to. I use Linux vm's for stuff as it's solid and free. Plenty of reasons not to use Windows for certain things.

molgrips - Member

No, I think it's spot on

Anyway there's nothing wrong with Linux as an OS. It's the Linux ecosystem that's the problem. Well, I say problem - it's just different... and it has advantages.

No it's complete guff! There are thousands of scenarios where 99% of the time one OS is perfectly okay, but for the one percent you need a different one.

Look how many Mac OS users run Parallels, Fusion or VBox to run some Windows software they can't get on OSX.

Or another example, many of the bioscience/genetics labs I visit have both Windows & Linux workstations as the Windows equivalents of their bio software doesn't perform well enough or simply isn't available.

adam, mike an retro are right guys

correct me if im wrong but dont microsoft use linux servers

😉

You're overstating it heavily. The vast majority of users use only one OS and it's Windows. A higher percentage of MacOS users are using a different OS, and I'm sure an even higher percentage of Linux users are.

Windows may not be the best OS, but it's the most useful and versatile because it's the most widely supported, in turn because it's the most popular. This isn't really controversial is it?

correct me if im wrong but dont microsoft use linux servers

We're talking about desktop users - the server environment is a totally different debate.

many linux users use muliple distros
i use mint most but i like puppy linux too
an ive used maybe 15 diffrent linux os

i have heard quite a few people say they want windows 7 back as they hate 8 an 8.1

each to there own, but if i take my brother as an example he bought a windy 8 machine he hates it but he now
wants win7 on it and 8 so he can use the os he likes an also say an show to people hes got the latest trendy new os
even though he hates it 😆

Nope, unless the Windows team - that need Windows to manage their Windows servers are also tautologous.

It is. That's the environment dictating the choice of OS, it's not indicative of how one or the other is fundamentally "better." To borrow our erstwhile colleague's analogy; if you're servicing a Ford Anglia, you'll need a box of Imperial spanners. You're describing very specific circumstances, and whilst I was being flippant for comedic effect when I said "no-one" I was really talking in the context of home users.

Look how many Mac OS users run Parallels, Fusion or VBox to run some Windows software they can't get on OSX.

Look how many Windows users use virtualisation to run OSX software... oh.

When you're talking thousands of servers you can't log into each, you need a good regime with trusted servers (note: not windows).

Of course. But that's apples and oranges compared to a desktop PC in someone's living room.

an ive used maybe 15 diffrent linux os

This always makes me laugh. Bemoaning Windows for having a monthly patch schedule and then spending half your life formatting and rebuilding with a different version. What's wrong with the one you've got?

I've been using Microsoft operating systems since DOS 3.3. So in, what, twenty years, I've been through five incarnations of Windows on my home PCs. (3.1, 98, XP, Vista, W7.) 3.1 aside as it was made of cheese, I think I've formatted and reinstalled twice.

Linux is great in a lot of ways, and I use it semi-regularly by nature of my job (live CDs is Linux's "killer app" for me), but if the best thing you can come up with as a discussion point is a variation on "Windoze" (and the fact that you appear to be related to an idiot) then you've already lost the argument.

Apart from me. I don't own a copy of windows. I don't need one.

I do, however, have a chromebook and it does everything I need for day-to-day home needs. I regularly create documents, browse, email etc. That's why PC sales are dropping in favour of tablets (which usually run a form of *nix 😀 ) as PCs are generally major overkill for a lot of stuff.

I do, however, have a chromebook and it does everything I need for day-to-day home needs.

<nods> there is a bit of a paradigm shift going on at the moment in the way people do things. Folk used to go and splash £1500 on what was in all but name a gaming rig in order to send email, surf the net and write the occasional letter. I did it myself.

These days, people want to spod in front of the TV, play a couple of intellectually devoid games, and not have to wait five minutes for a half-kilowatt PC to whirr into life. And technology has finally caught up, computers are powerful enough - hell, phones are powerful enough - to scratch that itch without spending a fortune. Lightweight, portable, instant-on, it's not hard to see why this stuff is gaining ground.

I wonder how long it is before home PCs are seen as an anachronism outside of "home office" and teenagers fragging each other. Why would you have a 'big box' PC sitting there when the iPad does everything you need? I had a play with a Surface last week; it's surprisingly good technology, really nice thing. Suddenly, even a netbook seems like a clumsy solution.

you've already lost the argument.

you assume to much, that a debate is an argument?,
im just saying my point of view

ive been with linux mint since version 10 i think but ive tried lots of os via usb an live cd, i thought that 15 was ok but i love 16 so for the 1st time in a long time ive installed it on 3 pcs

spending half your life formatting and rebuilding

now you must be thinking of windows not linux

 

With 8.1 there is no little to no interaction with tile-based Modern interface (formerly known as Metro) in daily use. Pinning most needed programs to task bar and removing most of the tiles (leaving desktop, weather and a news tile) solved most of the interface clumsiness for me.

There are plenty of annoying features left (duplicated but differing control panel features, network selection stuff etc) but most are one-time problems. Although I admit +20year IT career might have already killed any feelings capable of getting annoyed by any OS.

With 8.1 there is no little to no interaction with tile-based Modern interface

It is a more polished turd, but that isn't much of a recommedation.

The sad fact is that Windows 8 was designed and built with the sole intention of making money for Microsoft. Between the crappy app store and the deliberate attempts to make it unlike previous versions they managed to break Windows and create a ( relative ) flop.

Cougar your a Moderator an your calling me an idiot for having a point of view
fair enough, yeah rubber keys spectrum , an acorns bbc i think were my 1st machines
ah the good ole days 🙂

no, I think your just coming across as an idiot 😉

live CDs is Linux's "killer app" for me

Linux killer apps, for me:

Servers
Customisation for specific use
Low resource consumption
Security (although that doesn't stop my company from making me run AV on Linux 🙁 )

Windows killer apps:

Desktop experience
Hardware support
Software availability

I wonder how long it is before home PCs are seen as an anachronism outside of "home office" and teenagers fragging each other.

Not long at all, about as long as it takes everyone's current PC to expire.

To be fair the W8 kernel/system is pretty fast on modern hardware. I just hate the metro interface where it isn't needed. I shouldn't have to put in fudges to make the machine work the way I want (Classic shell etc.). The forcing of the metro interface on just about anything with Microsoft code on it is more an exercise by management bods. They could have killed all the hate by simply giving a choice - metro or classic, and attempted to coax people to the metro interface as time went on.

It took me ages when I first started a W8 machine to work out how to turn the damned thing off! I hear the next version of W8 will actually have a button on the metro interface for shutdown/standby. Why they didn't do that in the first place is a mystery to me, as Toyah would say. 😀

no, I think your just coming across as an idiot,

thank you for your 1 fantastic bit of input in this thread,

do you use windows or linux? do tell us 😮

i dont mind being singled out for abuse based on nothing,
insults only come from people who hate an all haters are stupid

molgrips an adam have said what needs to be said an there 100%
correct,an by the sounds of it, its there job to know

mac an windows serve there purpose as tools for what there good for, native gaming an music software, I've used linux to save lost data from hdd's from machines running windows os never the other way around though,

those fancy effects in Hollywood movies are mostly made on linux machines,
everyone thinks its all done on macs. xbox360 games were made on macs though.

if you choose to shop an online bank on windows over linux well good luck with that, each os has its strong point
an windows security is week, hence there being a large market for
3rd party security software.

I've never had a virus or any other security issues on linux
how many windows users can say that ? 8)

 

thank you for your 1 fantastic bit of input in this thread,

no, I think your just coming across as an idiot,

+1, learn to use quotes properly for a start...

I shouldn't have to put in fudges to make the machine work the way I want

But the way you want is the way that's been forced on you the last time Windows was updated..

so are you going to talk about the subject or just nit pick
about how some text looks in a forum?

z1ppy

.

19 words of nothing in 2 posts
you must have lots of spare time on your hands

so are you going to contibute or just b1tch like a sissy 😀

 

LOL sticks & stones, I'm not the one making himself look stupid, keep diggin!

I'm scared of change so I still use a quill.

Seriously though, there's an update in a few weeks that will allow apps to run from the desktop and instate the old minimize/expand/close buttons to apps, so now no need to go near Metro at all. I think any advice to go out and buy Windows 7 instead of 8.1 is very bad.

your the only one who looks stupid zippy

Try 8.1 set to boot to desktop and with the start button turned on before you go through the hassle of going back to 7. I actually prefer it to 7 set up like that

Cougar your a Moderator an your calling me an idiot for having a point of view

No, I called your brother an idiot. Do pay attention.

i dont mind being singled out for abuse based on nothing,

I really don't think that's what's happening here.

an windows security is week, hence there being a large market for
3rd party security software.

I've never had a virus or any other security issues on linux

There's a large market for third party security software because a) Windows [i]anything[/i] is by definition a large market and b) companies like to make money.

Windows is targeted by malware writers for the same reason. Say you're writing a virus; do you aim it at the platform with 90% of the market share, or 2%? You want Linux to compete with Windows, all I can say there is, be careful what you wish for. Outside of the server market, Linux's single biggest security feature is obscurity.

By a country mile, the single biggest cause of infections on modern Windows platforms is user error, with out of date copies of Flash and Java being the biggest source of technical exploits (which is arguably still user error). Windows is comparatively secure and stable these days, though Apple / Linux fanboys do like to talk as though we're still all running Windows 95. I can't remember the last time I saw a virus alert on any of my own machines (except when actively testing an infection), it's almost certainly pre-Vista days for me.

Just because you aren't aware of security issues and bugs in Linux doesn't mean their isn't any. What do you think all those files are for when you run apt-get?

Back on subject, HAPPY BUNNY, why I hear you all shout.

Well after a year of putting up with Windows 8, even upgrading to 8.1 I've had enough.
Now the proud owner of "Classic Shell"

But the way you want is the way that's been forced on you the last time Windows was updated..

Oh excellent! So I have a start button that doesn't take me to metro any more? That's how I want to work. Or is it just a button that does the same as the physical windows button that takes you to the mess that is Metro?

There really have been a bunch of missteps over the years. Windows generally really needs a "this is the thousandth time I've installed Windows, stop asking me dull questions" option. A simple "export Setup settings" function would be ace. "Welcome to Internet Explorer," yay, I've never seen IE before. **** off.

Windows 8, fundamentally, needs an "I don't have a touchscreen device" button.

I wish one of you lot had been with me when I bought this pile of crap.

Signed, Backward 57 yr old of North Yorkshire.

Cougar - Moderator
Look how many Windows users use virtualisation to run OSX software... oh.

So? OSX cannot be virtualised (easily) due to licencing/compatibility issues.

Under your definition Windows has completely failed as an OS because as per my example some obscure genetics programme is not available or is not fast enough on it, and therefore the users have to use Linux to perform that particular task instead. I don't understand what point you are trying to make?

I don't understand what point you are trying to make?

The point I'm trying to make is that for all the claims from some camps that "windoze is the shitzor," you quite often find users of other OSes still want to dual-boot / VM Windows for things their favoured OS can't do. The reverse is almost universally untrue [i]*for typical users*[/i].

Actually, that's not my point. My point is that I'm getting increasingly bored with hearing "facts" trotted out that haven't had any bearing in reality since Windows 98 / NT4 days.

Windows is targeted by malware writers for the same reason. Say you're writing a virus; do you aim it at the platform with 90% of the market share, or 2%?

Cheers,
Jamie

As soon as Google Drive is supported natively in Linux I may well put Debian on the main laptop at home. I'm sure the wife won't mind...

Cheers,
Jamie

The iPad is much more locked down with apps having restricted access, which does make them more secure, but nothing is 100% secure.

Cougar - Moderator
The point I'm trying to make is that for all the claims from some camps that "windoze is the shitzor," you quite often find users of other OSes still want to dual-boot / VM Windows for things their favoured OS can't do. The reverse is almost universally untrue *for typical users*.

Actually, that's not my point. My point is that I'm getting increasingly bored with hearing "facts" trotted out that haven't had any bearing in reality since Windows 98 / NT4 days.

You've not heard it from me, I like W8, aside from the Interface-Formerly-Known-As-Metro-Which-Literally-Nobody-Aside-From-Molgrips-Likes.

Your original point which I disagreed with was that if a particular piece of software or functionality is not available and the user has to dual boot/use virtualisation, then the OS is a failure. This is obviously not the case, but it sounds like I missed some context from earlier in the thread.

Well, I'm thinking of going to Linux for my main work OS. Mostly because Windows takes to long to stop faffing around and start working when I start up, and hibernate isn't working.

Now both those things are almost certainly not MS's fault, but I'm just going to switch and see how I get on. I will be using Windows in a VM though.

Your original point which I disagreed with was that if a particular piece of software or functionality is not available and the user has to dual boot/use virtualisation, then the OS is a failure. This is obviously not the case, but it sounds like I missed some context from earlier in the thread.

I may not have been entirely serious. Where I was going was that if you need to reach for another tool to do a job, then (assuming you're not doing anything specialised) you have to question whether you've got the right tool in the first place. "some obscure genetics programme" isn't really regular use, it's a fairly atypical requirement.

Putting that the other way around; if Linux (or OSX) is going to challenge Windows for desktop supremacy, it needs to get to a point where this hybridisation is no longer necessary. I'd genuinely like to see that happen.

Cougar - Moderator
I may not have been entirely serious. Where I was going was that if you need to reach for another tool to do a job, then (assuming you're not doing anything specialised) you have to question whether you've got the right tool in the first place. "some obscure genetics programme" isn't really regular use, it's a fairly atypical requirement.

No but just because a particular tool cannot help every situation, doesn't make it any less valid as a tool.

I don't think it's atypical either, a lot of people have an application or bit of hardware that they seldom use but does not work on their OS of choice. The scientists were just one example that sprung to mind.

My Dad uses VMWare Player to use his slide scanner which only runs on XP and not 7 or 8. My wife dual boots 10.5 and 7 on her Macbook because her interactive whiteboard software only runs on XP or <10.6 but some other stuff she uses day to day needs a recent Windows build (her VPN client or something).

Cougar - Moderator
Putting that the other way around; if Linux (or OSX) is going to challenge Windows for desktop supremacy, it needs to get to a point where this hybridisation is no longer necessary. I'd genuinely like to see that happen.

Well in a roundabout way it's already happening via iOS, Android, and ChromeOS. Virtually all of my company's products now have a requirement to run well on iPads for example.

Compatibility Mode not work?

This looks like a best of both worlds approach! VM Win or Mac but boot ChromeOS. I'm in!

http://www.engadget.com/2014/02/13/google-vmware-chromebooks-windows-remote/