MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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Now that Vauxhall/Opel are owned by Peugeot, will they change in character?
What I mean is that, once Mercedes Benz became Daimler Benz, it has been argued that there was a distinct change in the quality of the cars being produced, and people who had formerly been interested in Mercedes no longer were. Now, as I understand it, people will sometimes refer to 'post-2008' cars as if the divorce between the two companies was their salvation.
I have always thought of Vauxhalls as being too closely allied to their North American GM cousins for me to even give them a second glance - primarily because I see GM as one of the most dastardly companies on Planet Earth. So will they be able to lose that association now, and take on a palpably different corporate ethos?
Has any Vauxhall had character since 1992?
Has any Vauxhall had character since 1992?
Exactly the sort of thing I am talking about.
the only thing that amazes me is that people still buy vauxhalls.
company plagued by cost cutting and thattl do ...... its almost as if they modelled them selves on british leyland.
A post 1992 Vauxhall with character? How about the Monaro? hell of a car.
you mean its got a big engine and its cheaper than all the others with big engines....
doesnt really do it for me.
i bet they still didnt get the pedals/the uncomfy seat and the steering wheel to line up .... or is that just a special line of hire cars they do for avis that arre poorly lined up.
post vauxhall with character ... ill give it to my colleagues vx220 you dont see many of them these days. .... how ever the lotus elise its based on still the car id buy - and my mate has one of them , that is a hell of a car on the track.....
My father bought a nearly Vauxhall Astra 10 years ago, it's low milage (50k) but basically dead, the manual gearbox doesn't work properly for example. Anything from a Japanese (or German) manufacturer would be in great running order IME
I am struggling to see what Peugeot saw in the brand. I'd buy a Peugeot all day long over a Vauxhall.
As for the original question in some respects I hope a lot changes for the sake of the employees.
Aah Vauxhall! I was an apprentice in the Luton plant before they shut it down. It obviously made an impression as I never learnt to drive and if I ever do (really not likely) then the last car on the list would be a Vauxhall.
The Monaro wasn't really a Vauxhall though - it was a rebadged Holden.
In the same vein, the VX220, sold as a Vauxhall, wasn't terrible, but also wasn't really a Vauxhall - in this case a Lotus.
I've had 2 Vectra's that did over 170k miles each with very little trouble.
Wouldn't buy a new one though, not until Peugeot have had the opportunity to breathe some life into them at least, but to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if any new Vauxhalls were just rebadged Peugeots with slight changes to their shells, like several Citroens are these days.
A bunch of comments by people who’ve clearly not driven a Vauxhall since 1992!
Wouldn’t buy a new one though, not until Peugeot have had the opportunity to breathe some life into them at least, but to be honest I wouldn’t be surprised if any new Vauxhalls were just rebadged Peugeots with slight changes to their shells, like several Citroens are these days.
True, but it's not just within the family of brands, the cost of developing new engines with all their ancillaries means they've been buying them off each other for years (Ford 1.6 diesel is a PSA unit for example).
I am struggling to see what Peugeot saw in the brand. I’d buy a Peugeot all day long over a Vauxhall.
Conversely, I haven’t seen or driven a single Peugeot over the last eighteen months I’d want to own, whereas I’ve driven a [i]lot[/i] of Vauxhalls over the same period I’d be perfectly happy to own, particularly the Corsa SR/SRi, which are fun to drive, handle well, are comfortable enough to drive for over 200 miles without stopping, (I drove six back from Cornwall over five days last year), and are well equipped, DAB radio that’s actually easy to use, unlike the OEM Ford one, and they have a heated screen as standard, one of the only cars other than Ford I’ve driven apart from Range Rover and one Nissan Qashqai that had that feature.
I’ve driven pretty much every Vauxhall apart from the Adam, and all of them have been fine to drive for two to three hours at a time, and I’ve driven plenty that haven’t been.
I think some people imagine that Vauxhall still make the Vectra, which was one of the most uncomfortable cars it’s ever been my misfortune to have to drive for more than five minutes; the time it took to start getting a numb arse!
I was a big fan of the 90s Cavalier. It was the first (relatively) nice car I owned, went through four of them.
Had a couple of Vectra Cs later (the new shape, not the Cav replacement) and just didn't get on with them. Soulless to drive and had constant little minor annoyances like having to retune the DAB every 15 minutes as you moved between transmitters.
I've no real dislike for Vauxhaul, but they wouldn't be top of my list of things to buy. Probably would be higher than Peugeot, mind.
Vauxhall/Renault/Nissan collaboration on LGVs might need to be re-appraised.
I had a Vectra B 'Imperial Star Destroyer'. Hateful thing. But good for getting from North Wales to Cornwall in an hour and a half. The power of branding is evident here: 'Vauxhall' is council to the max, but the 'Opel' logo looks pretty cool.
My Wife bought one of these, a 1.4petrol (a few years older than the one in the pic) bought from new. It’d covered 74k before we got rid of it late last year.. Always serviced, very well looked after, became the farm runaround in its later life when my wife bought a Fiat 500.. The only issues we ever had with the Astra were the EGR valve (that we got blanked off in the end) and a new door lock (someone took a fancy to the stereo.. I kid you not.. when only a year old) and a new radiator (when it rusted the bottom section and spewed it’s liquid over the A1)
Honestly, it was bloody fabulous. It was quick, would do about 40odd mpg and refused steadfastly to die. It was sold to a Farmers wife up the lane for £500 and I was sad to see it go.. it was simple and did what a car should.
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What I mean is that, once Mercedes Benz became Daimler Benz"
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I thought Benz and Daimler merged in the early 1920s and then a few years later produced cars under the MB name?
I had a Vectra B ‘Imperial Star Destroyer’. Hateful thing. But good for getting from North Wales to Cornwall in an hour and a half. The power of branding is evident here: ‘Vauxhall’ is council to the max, but the ‘Opel’ logo looks pretty cool.
Depends how council* the observer is?
I associate Opel with 'council' types driving around in their lowered vectra with an Opel badge, big spoiler and a Nurburgring sticker on the boot.
See also: VW Bora.
*no offence intended to those who grew up on estates of the kind not attached to country houses.
I meant to say Daimler-Chrysler.
Of course, Daimler-Benz is what they had been before, and what I believe they have returned to being.
Hmm but the PSA 1.6 doesn't blow the turbo and the Ford one (same engine) does....
Can't say I've been attracted to any post 80's Vauxhaul/Opel either compared to VAG or PSA both of which seemed capable of doing at least 1 car in a range that the engineers design rather than accountants. (By that the Gti or VR6 or RS) .. its not that Vauxhaul didn't do a GTI... just I wouldn't have wanted one.
Even Honda had the Type R's and S2000... which were proper Honda's as opposed to rebadged Holden/Lotus.... and speaking of Vauxhaul and Lotus I guess the Lotus Carlton sums that up.
PSA seemed to have lost that though at least around S-Reg.... The 209GTi to 306 Rallye/GTI-6 story ending with the 307 that didn't even merit a decent engine.
Now I'm older I tend more towards stealth cars... so haven't really followed. If finances allowed and I really didnt need the money an estate RS6 would be a dream car today ...
Vauxhalls may be (on the whole) bland and a bit boring, but they do the job, there aren't any ugly ducklings in the range (as far as I'm aware of) and there is a huge fleet industry. Interestingly, my employer has just switched from Vauxhall to Peugeot for company cars..not particularly popular choice from those who have mentioned it.
I always had a dislike of Vauxhall based on 90s junk like the Vectra. However my company Zafira tourer is about to hit 80k and its been faultless. Quiet, smooth, comfy enough and 100% reliable, not even a bulb gone after 3 and a half years. I'd have another but not on the list anymore so I have a Passat GTE coming in a few weeks. Looking forward to it but suspect it may not be as reliable ..
It just means Vauxhall products will end up as woefully built as the rest of the PSA group products
I imagine they will just become PSA parts bin cars rather than GM. I was extremely amused to read a few years back that one of the top Vauxhall/Opel bosses got offended if Vauxhall’s were compared to Ford, Citroen etc as the company pitched the Chevrolet brand against those. She said Vauxhall’s were pitched at the premium brands!
Driven plenty through work and all have been meh. Not terrible but not as good as any opposition i’d driven. Pals have had a few over the years though and they’ve always seemed reliable enough. Guess that’s out of the window now.
Aye they might stop catching fire now 🙂
Driven plenty of hired vaux over last 10 years. From Corsas to insignias and between.... There isn't one I'd buy.
I owned a vauxhall once -it was ace....
But it was a rebadged Isuzu mostly.
I'm by no means a Vx fan but I drove a new Astra last year whilst my Beemer was off getting some bodywork done. It handles superbly and felt nice inside. It went well and looked sharp.onky downside was little steering feedback but the grip and ride were amazing.
I' be tempted by the 1.6t but you get hammered for depreciation.
Shame as I think they finally made a car that was competitive.
I have owned a few Vauxhalls in my early driving career. I had a Cavalier SRi, A Nova 1.2 Swing, a Astra hatch and a later Cavalier. The SRi and Nova were cracking cars, the Astra hatch and later Cavalier were dull as ditchwater despite being better cars than the Escort and Mondeo of the day, but ultimately reliable and fundamentally good cars.
I've had the odd new Astra as a hire car recently and its quite a nice car, definitely better than the Puegeots and other French cars I've had as hire cars. It drove really well. But having said that despite having good experiences of Vauxhall ownership I'm not sure I'd buy one again. Not sure why given the current Astra is easily as good as any other car in it's class and in fact better than most of them. Can't put my finger on the reason why. I wouldn't have a Peugeot either. I think Vauxhall's biggest problem is not necessarily with their cars, but their image and the brand.
We bought a new Corsa 1.2 in 2012, my wife needed a car for work and what attracted us was that the dealership was close distance wise to home and the offer of 5yrs 0% finance. Car has proved to be reliable but uninspiring. The dealership on the other hand has proved to be woeful and unbelievably unhelpful. Can't understand how they continue to be in business?
"Anything from a Japanese (or German) manufacturer would be in great running order IME"
Errrr... Opel are German.
Opel /Vauxhall are just cars bought by people who are not image conscious, like say BMW or Audi drivers might be. They just do the job of going from A to B.
Saying that, I quite like the look of the Adam (named after Opel founder, Adam Opel) as a little city car. I'm sure that the build quality is better than a Fiat 500....
Those bemoaning 'loss of character' ought to stick some big alloys and a loud exhaust on their commuter wagons and pull themselves together. A car is but a tool, do you consider your favourite 10mm spanner to have 'character'?
It's not exactly a Swedish axe FFS!
A car is but a tool, do you consider your favourite 10mm spanner to have ‘character’?
Out of the 8 or so 10mm spanners I own the Facom deep set one is just perfect and makes me happy so yes its got "character 🙂
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<p style="padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: unset; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent; line-height: 1.5rem; margin: 1rem 0px !important;">Hmm but the PSA 1.6 doesn’t blow the turbo and the Ford one (same engine) does….</p>
It very much does.</div>
Ive always likened vauxhalls to similar cars to a ford. Meat and potatoes. I drive a ford and a Citroen (with the 1.6 PSA diesel that blows turbos).
I've always seen vauxhalls as cars for people who should have bought a ford but didn't read any reviews.
Why buy a corsa over a fiesta?
Why do people buy Mokkas? They have terrible reviews and are ugly yet seem to be everywhere.
I'm interested to see what badge engineering PSA do with the brand. I know a new berlingo/partner is coming and the vauxhall equivalent will be the same platform for example.
Wow. It didn't look like that as I was typing it
My Wife bought one of these, a 1.4petrol (a few years older than the one in the pic) bought from new. It’d covered 74k before we got rid of it late last year
refused steadfastly to die
Bikebuoy, have I read that correctly in that you think a car should have given up by 74k?
People who drive Vauxhalls probably also buy Thornton's Chocolate.
There, I said it.
We have two Vauxhalls (I know!). They really aren't bad cars. yeh they aren't amazing but none of the Fords, Citroens etc are. They are good work horses and since about 2005/06 have been much better than previous incarnations. I have an Astra Estate and the wife has a Viva (new style one). The Viva is much more practical than the other super minis and ideal for going around town. It costs less than £8k new and has better options than base spec BMW's etc. The Astra Estate is a decent car, plenty of space, decent engine, the car feels solid and much more planted on the road than Ford Focus's that I have driven. I may have a soft spot as I was involved in the development of the Astra but I think it is comparable in quality and handling to its competitors. The majority of the engineering work is done in Germany and is actually pretty disconnected from the previous GM owners. If anything GM started taking Opel parts/designs etc to make smaller cars for the US market not the other way round.
I assume most of the negative comments on here are from folk who have never owned one. I would have been in that camp until just over a year ago when I inherited a almost new Zafira As a biker who is always lugging around people, bikes and kit, but need a car some of the time, it is one of the best options I can ever imagine. The flexibility of the car is amazing, it can easily convert from a 7 seat people carrier to what is effectively a small van which takes a huge amount of kit. It drives well enough and is very good and economical on long motorway drives. Everything in it works as it should and its well equipped. spacious to travel in and very comfortable. Its a 2l diesel and not the most exciting drive but it does the job I want it to do perfectly.
There are occasionally posts on here asking what vehicle for folk who need a bit of everything. The Zafira fits that bill very well. (Did I just post that!!!!)
I have a vauxhall mokka in the hotel carpark. Its an "upgrade" said no one ever.
I've owned a few ... they just became entirely uninspiring as something I'd want to own.
It's not that they were specifically bad.... but in the 80's it used to be you'd not go back to Ford after Vx then the cars changed. Things like the seats and pedals not lining up...not major things just niggles.
The only Vx I ever wanted (for reasons I don't fully understand) was a Saab... but then Vx never managed to get Saab to build the mediocrity in. (Or reuse the required percentage of GM parts)
I think that sums up my feeling... it was not it was a bad chassis or a bad engine, just the uninspiring way they were put together.
At 74k no, I wouldn’t expect a car to die either. Add in that it was 18yrs old too and a Vauxhall (with so many bad reviews and image and mechanical issues reported it seems) and yes TBH I did expect it to die.
It didn't and it’s still running, we see it quite often.. though it’s looking a bit muddy at the moment.
Ok..I will raise my head above the parapet ..having previously driven a Touareg & Passat Sport as the two cars prior to my current car ..I sacrificed a " badge " for the security of a 5 year warranty when I bought my Insignia Sport Tourer ( or estate if that sounds too pretentious 😎 ) .
I have really grown to like the car ..it hasn't blinked ( touch wood ) in terms of reliability ..its 2.0litre 160ps engine is plenty lively enough and isn't embarrassed performance wise by BMW's or Audis of a similar engine size...great for sticking the bike in the back and very comfortable .
It's only downside is that without winter tyres (which I don't go to the expense of ) it is pretty crap in snow & ice with its 18" wheels ..but we have a Nissan X Trail for that scenario..
Overall very pleased and if it turns out to be half as reliable as my near neighbours '08 Vectra with 450k mileage on it ( he is determined to get it to 500k) ..then I will be well chuffed !
<span style="color: #444444; font-size: 12.8px; background-color: #eeeeee;"> How about the Monaro? hell of a car.</span>
Christ, it made the Sierra Cosworth look classy. A bland looking crapmobile with horrible build quality and not much going for it except a big engine.
I’d buy a Peugeot all day long over a Vauxhall.
Having owned both I'd take a Vauxhall over a Peugeot every single time. I had a vectra for about 5 years and it was faultless, had a Peugeot for a bit longer and although mechanically okay the car was a shambles with constant niggly electrical and sensor faults.
I would never buy another Peugeot.
vauxhalls are starting to get a bit thin on the company car list here, I think PSA are not offering the discounts that GM did.
It's hardly a dream-team combo is it? The bland leading the bland.
I will always have a soft spot for the 1990s Cavalier, it might have handled crap but my boss's 1.7TD was very comfy and fast compared to the hatchbacks I'd had up to then.
Was given a gold mk2 saloon my late 20s, it had the slowest electric windows in the world and had brown velour seats - but it was brilliant for long drives and nice to drive even though it handled like a boat...
Yeah they'll change, I doubt it'll be for the better though.
Vauxhall sort of used to be cool in the 80s and 90s, but only because everyone Dad either had a Cav or a Sierra so you fought your corner in the school playground - my Dad did the unthinkable though and switch from Ford to Vauxhall, so much humble pie to eat for a 11 year old, but at least it was an White SRI and it looked cool (at the time).
My Wife had an Astra for 8 years I think, the engine sounded rough as bawls because they use a sort of caseless oil filer and I went to change it once only to find a pile of oily bits of paper where the filter should have been, the steering rack failed at 30k miles and the replacement was never right with a horrible dead notch at the centre, but it only let her down 2/3 times in that time, battery related easy to fix, but annoying so acceptable, but not remarkable, very Vauxhall I guess.
I was amazed how expensive they are now, Wife bought her last Astra, only 1.4 petrol from a dealer for £8500 'ex demo'... we had a look last year when we changed it - a 3rd Astra was £20k, a sort of half laughed, and knowing no one pays full price for a Ford, Vauxhall, Peugeot, Renault or Citroen I asked them what sort of deal they could do... "£500 off", I think they call it a 'Coupe' now, but it's not really.
I've driven several Vauxhalls, hateful things. The steering wheel is always offset, resulting in backache after forty five minutes, the engines were universally lifeless and the seats awful.
It's as if Vauxhall/Opel can't be bothered to even try. Peugeot has a recent history of making uninteresting, dull and fragile cars (to be fair, Peugeots have been fragile since the 1980s, it's just that they used to be fun to drive). I doubt that much will change, except that your new Vauxhall will start to resemble a Peugeot if you squint at it and most likely they'll gain in popularity for junior HR staff called Emma who like zero percent finance and aspire to own a Mini within three years.
It all went wrong when they dropped the mighty cav, eh?
I used to work in Automotive and the saying a few years ago was something like "you cant really buy a bad car anymore but Vauxhall really do try". That being said the Corsa remains one of the best selling cars in the UK. PSA had a good go at getting their brand into shape a few years ago, and to a point, they succeeded - they certainly had a jump in market share. Overall though, I dont think they'll bring anything to the party apart from platform and engine share. There is probably a good gain to be had in commercial vehicles.
Ah, what's in a name? Cav / Vectra / Insignia, it's a new model of the same thing really.
It's not that they stopped making a great car and made a bad one instead, but they stayed still with their image whilst others continually changed.
Their fortunes did change about the age of the Vectra, but not because it was much worse than the Cav, just that the market for the boring mid-sized family saloon AKA Repmobile dropped as drivers wanted SUV, People Carriers, Coupes and more 'interesting' cars, anything that wasn't a 'Repmobile' and the Vauxhall badge just screams 'Dad Car', They tried to reignite it with the Lotus thing, the Holden thing and such, but it might have been a better idea to drop Vauxhall at the stage, Opel with it's Lighting Bolt badge - they could have been another 'Seat' who have a much fresher, sportier, image despite selling discount VWs, they're cheaper than Skodas these days, but it hasn't dented the image.
The 'Adam' (stupid name) is a good looking car for example, but it's never going to sell like a Fiat 500, Audi A1 or Mini because it's a Vauxhall.
PJM1974 sums it up for me.... though I'm guessing he's 6yrs younger and potentially missed the last fun Vauxhaul Opels.
Vauxhaul/Opel just didn't seem bothered to try.
I had a fragile PUG or two.. but I loved them all the same.
At one point I had a Carton (auto) and the OH a 306 XSi (not even the most exciting)... and I'd be forever stealing her car. Even for the 5-10 min trip to the supermarket through traffic where the auto was the logical choice the PUG was just choice of the heart.
4-5 years before I'd hired a Cavalier for 2 weeks and it was great....
Ah, what’s in a name? Cav / Vectra / Insignia, it’s a new model of the same thing really.
You knew where you were with a good honest Cav.
"Vectra" sounded insufferably aspirational at the same time as being dull as ditchwater.
Saw a Lotus Carlton in a car park last weekend... now that was a properly cool car back in 1990.
Vauxhall do seem to be improving again, but they certainly went through a very bland period.
Things like the Corsa-C, and Astra-G were good cars at the time, but then they seemed to go through a period of just producing blandness. Vectra-C always felt bloated, even though they very well specced compared with the competition. Insignia was a major improvement, and brilliant mile muncher, but not sure I'd buy one.
Corsa-D and Astra-H were OK, but I always felt the interiors always felt like they were trying to be too luxurious, but just ended up feeling cheap and plasticy.
The Astra-J, Mokka, and Corsa-E do seem a bit better again, but after a discussion at work with a workmate who actually has a Mokka, we came to the conclusion that there's not really anything bad about them, but they probably wouldn't be top of the list for purchasing.
Although that's probably not helped by a lot of their dealers being horrendous to deal with. I know a former Vauxhall regional tech support guy, and he said the biggest problem was dealers who just didn't want to do warranty work. All they wanted to do was hit sales targets, and do retail servicing. Why fix something under warranty at less than £50per hour, when you can sell that labour retail at over £70 per hour?
Plus, any car company that christens their new product "Mokka" deserves to go out of business, immediately. The only automotive moniker that's lamer than Mokka is Qashqai.
PJM1974 Has it right.
Vauxhall - the only car make I just cannot get on with the seats of for more than 30 minutes without sciatica or odd back pain.
Peugeot - tupperware build quality with pretty silver effect plastic sold on 0%.
The offspring of that marriage is not going to be very 'strong'....
i had a mk2 cav like cha****ngs up there as a first car, loved that thing as it was almost indestructable, 312,000 ish miles several youthfull crashes which left it full of filler and bumbers held on with duck tape! happy days of bombing around france biking and camping. Pushing it round wandsworth one way system after the cam belt snapped, fitted a new one and changed the oil next day and off it went again...........ahhhh happy days it had the most comfy seats and would run on once turned off like uncle bucks car and then back fire!
several years later i also had a mk4 astra that did 240,000 ish miles and was equally hard to kill. I am not massively bothered with the brand though, i do however have a disslike for mazda as the engine on our 6 blew up at 80k and mazda didn't give a sh't
I've just bought a 3yr old Zafira Tourer, it's as well put together as my previous Passat was by the looks of it. Quiet, comfortable, bags of room and reasonably economical for a big car with a small engine (1.4T petrol). Seats on the Passat (and Golf before it) gave me arse ache after a while, did 270 miles in the Zafira without so much as a twinge. Headlights were crap though, HID kit has sorted that though. SRi badge means I'm cool though, right? 😉
Bland - probably. Practical - definitely.
Those faimly SUV things, Zafira in particular, are the car for people who have given up on life, or who just arent a petrolhead at heart. A fried of mine had a VRS Zafira and it nearly killed his wallet and his soul.
Have you seen the ad for Opel Grandland X?
The lead character might be a STW member but still most depressing car ad I've seen in ages.
Those bemoaning ‘loss of character’ ought to stick some big alloys and a loud exhaust on their commuter wagons and pull themselves together. A car is but a tool, do you consider your favourite 10mm spanner to have ‘character’?
I'd be curious to hear what bike you ride. Something from Go Outdoors I expect? It's just a tool after all.
I loved my early 90s Cavalier (the blobby shaped one). Still one of the quietest cars I've driven, but it did start to rust after about 3 years. Had an old Chevette before that, which should have died from neglect, but carried on for years.
Only recent experience was a new Corsa SRi as a loaner for a month <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">last year, which was worse in almost every way (bar the radio) that my wife's Hyundai i20. I do like the look of the new Insignia though.</span>
The biggest problem with Vauxhall is that they’re bland. Not just to look at but in every way. When was the last time they had a car that was genuinely class leading in any aspect? Why would you buy one?
In fairness the new Astra gets very good reviews. Certainly nicer inside than the current Focus (which has the same heater knobs as my 12 year old focus, which had the same ones as the mk1!)
The image is obviously sticking though, you can get a brand new SRi 150hp petrol one for ~£22k, or get one less than a year old from Network Q for £10k!