[Closed] will the CD die out or will it always be king for sound quality

They would already be dead if the music industry wasn't so eager to rip off the consumer for downloads. Buying a CD from play or amazon is still the cheapest legal way to get music, and its no big deal to rip it into whatever format you want.

As technology advances, internet connections get quicker and memory gets cheaper, higher quality digital formats will become more common which will make CD's sound like tapes.
In the long run they're toast.

kings of sound quality? ahahaha, HAHAHAHAHA! it seems to me with each subsequent music technology,, there's more clipping of quality, from vinyl to cd, and cd to MP3. of course, someone will be along to tell me that that's all rubbish. but i stand by it! 😉

agree with mrK

if you had the right gear to put it on vinyl was king.

Who knows? They said vinyl would die out, but it hasn't.
Cassettes are the only thing that no longer have new music released on them, but even then I did get a new ltd edition release on cassette a few months back..
I've got music on cassettes, vinyl, CD, mp3 and Minidisc and I'm keeping them all!

Like a £500 stylus? 🙂

CD is wasted with current [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war ]mastering practises[/url]. Check out something decently mastered from the 80s or 90s and compare it to a modern 'remastered' release.

Comparing it unfavourably to vinyl as a format is ludicrous (vinyl being [url= http://wiki.audacityteam.org/index.php?title=Bit_Depth#Vinyl_etc ]roughly equivalent to a CD with 50% of the available bit-depth[/url]). However, vinyl can't be mastered as badly as CDs (the needle wouldn't stay in the groove properly) hence why they sometimes sound a lot better than their CD counterparts.

to be fair dd yes 😀

People actually own CDs?

..Why?

I like them and they have my music on.
+ I cannot play MP3s on my hi-fi.

[i]People actually own CDs?

..Why? [/i]

because I can be reasonably certain of having a means of playing them in 20 years time (just like my vinyl).

There's too many 'dead' formats (storage as well as encryption) for me to be confident in a download.

fourbanger - Member
As technology advances, internet connections get quicker and memory gets cheaper, higher quality digital formats will become more common which will make CD's sound like tapes.

Not sure I agree with this - tapes had inherent properties that made them practical & convenient, but they were never that high quality in general terms (Nakamichi Dragon, aside)....
CD is equally practical but is higher quality in most cases, even on modest equipment. Would most people be bothered by higher quality CD? I doubt they would be, so in the majority of cases they fit the requirements pretty well.

Perhaps I am a luddite, but I much prefer to buy a CD and then stick it on my computer, rather than buy a download. It doesn't really seem any cheaper to get a download, so I'll stick with a physical item for the moment.
I worry about having all this 'virtual' music and then one day having a computer based disaster. I know that you should back stuff up etc. and that CDs supposedly aren't infallible either, but I have yet to have a CD stop working and some of mine must be getting on for20 years old now.

What I do find surprising is that MP3 on CD isn't really available. So I can't go to a terminal in HMV, select the entire back catalogue of an artist, choose high, medium or low quality and walk out with a CD or two with all that music on that is produced for me there & then.

RM some of us even own LPS and a record deck

CD will be obsolete ,I dont own any

Higher quality CD (SACD) has been available for about 10 years but hasn't taken off at all other then in certain specialist genres. As mentioned above the mastering process and desire for ever increasing loudness rather negates even CD quality in most "pop" releases.

[i]Who knows?[/i]

Answer: Junkyard!

😉

As mentioned above the mastering process and desire for ever increasing loudness rather negates even CD quality in most "pop" releases.

Yeah. I have noticed that quite a few albums I have bought just don't sound any good. I am guessing it doesn't matter how 'high quality' the CD is, if you are starting off with something that sounds cak, you have nowhere to go with it.

AlI formats have there place. I'd challenge most people to tell the difference between CD and an mp3 encoded using LAME. But CD vs vinyl with the right turntable running through a decent system, no competition... vinyl will win everytime, especially in a club scenario, the only thing that will top that is [url= http://www.beatportal.com/tags/tag/reel-to-reel/ ]reel to reel[/url]. I can't see DJ Harvey or David Mancuso ever using mp3 or CD's.

Yeah. I have noticed that quite a few albums I have bought just don't sound any good. I am guessing it doesn't matter how 'high quality' the CD is, if you are starting off with something that sounds cak, you have nowhere to go with it.

I noticed on the BBC this morning that "steps" top the album chart, when music is so crap, what does the format matter.

Music for me has always come before sound quality (within reason). I am quite happy with a 256 mp3 on my ipod hooked up to my hifi, no need for overpriced audiophile gubbins, spending more money would not improve the quality of the song writing.

So for a format I am looking for convenience and value, at the moment downloads are not good value, so the CD will stay as my main means of buying music for now.

There's a very good YouTube vid on the loudness war.

The difference in Metallica's "Master of Puppets" (1986) vs. "Death Magnetic" (2008) is very noticeable!!

There are plenty of formats that offer better sound quality than CD. HDCD, SACD and some lossless digital formats. If you buy a concert Blu Ray the sound quality is much better than CD too.

But CD's are cheap and convenient as well as offering decent quality in a pretty durable format so they will be with us for a while yet I suspect.

[i]I noticed on the BBC this morning that "steps" top the album chart, when music is so crap, what does the format matter.[/i]

I'm glad I'm not the only person disturbed by this news. 2 sold out nights at the O2 arena... there really are a F** of a lot of morons in this country aren't there.

because I can be reasonably certain of having a means of playing them in 20 years time (just like my vinyl).

whether the disc will last that long is another matter. Apparently the lifespan of a CD is vastly reduced as soon as they print the top layer.

At C_G Towers they won't!

One of life's pleasures is being sprawled out on the sofa, glass in hand, perusing CD case notes in the other, enjoying the sounds emitting from my cheapo B & W speakers.

Luddite, yes I am, and not ashamed to admit it either. 🙂

Comparing it unfavourably to vinyl as a format is ludicrous (vinyl being roughly equivalent to a CD with 50% of the available bit-depth).

Regardless of lab measurements, I know that vinyl sounds far better to me than CD. Always.

I've discovered that £200 gets you an OK needle for a record deck definately not as good as £500 though.

xiphon - Member

There's a very good YouTube vid on the loudness war.

The difference in Metallica's "Master of Puppets" (1986) vs. "Death Magnetic" (2008) is very noticeable!!

I've got an unmastered copy of death magnetic , it sounds amazing compared to the real release.

The day (which will never happen!) when you can buy a platform free drm licenced download would I would have thought spell the end of CDs for most folks. If I could buy from itunes and know that in 2 or 3 decades time I could use the file on whatever device is prevalent at the time without having the faff of stripping out drm by doing a "virtual rip" and whatever I'd be happy to the leave the plastic behind for good.

I noticed on the BBC this morning that "steps" top the album chart, when music is so crap, what does the format matter.

But you have to realise this is entertainment and not really music. OK it does not float our boat, but for some its fun.

The figure that gets quoted in my industry (Information Management) is about 10 years life span for a CD before the data starts degrading, unless stored at the correct temperature.

I still buy CDs, you can convert them for other uses, and you get the packaging. What would life be like without cover art ??

Regardless of lab measurements, I know that vinyl sounds far better to me than CD. Always.

I can't tell the difference, but too many years in front of 30W of AC30 valve goodness will do that to your ears 🙂

OK I will bite on this!!
There is nothing wrong with current mastering HOWEVER there is a problem with cheap software making anyone think they can master their material also with recording studios struggling for business they are trying their hand at mastering which is a completely different skill.
And re the Death magnetic thing it is not badly mastered BUT badly mixed!
I believe that when it turned up at the mastering studio it was so loud the engineer rang up the producer and apparently asked WTF am I supposed to do with this. If you want to here a good version of Death Magnetic then apparently the Guitar Hero version was remixed from original multitracks.
Sorry to ramble but am mainlining Lavazza before entering the studio!
Oh and CD is a great format for buying music at a gig!

I've no idea how many CD's I've got, but TBH I never use them, I spent a rainy weekend ages ago putting all of them on my itunes, and I pretty much (in fact always) listen to music thru the speakers connected to my laptop. I either download or youtube.

Joy Formidable CD was the last I bought (at a merch stand at the gig).

I can't tell the difference, but too many years in front of 30W of AC30 valve goodness will do that to your ears

They're useful for heating your front room, I'll give you that. 😉

The figure that gets quoted in my industry (Information Management) is about 10 years life span for a CD before the data starts degrading, unless stored at the correct temperature.

I've been told 5 years max for self burned stuff (on branded media), rather than pressed.

I'm happy to get 5 hours out of most of them.

convert - Member

The day (which will never happen!) when you can buy a platform free drm licenced download would I would have thought spell the end of CDs for most folks. If I could buy from itunes and know that in 2 or 3 decades time I could use the file on whatever device is prevalent at the time without having the faff of stripping out drm by doing a "virtual rip" and whatever I'd be happy to the leave the plastic behind for good.

iTunes is already DRM free, and you can buy DRM free FLAC files from 7digital etc.

nobtwidler - Member

OK I will bite on this!!
There is nothing wrong with current mastering HOWEVER there is a problem with cheap software making anyone think they can master their material also with recording studios struggling for business they are trying their hand at mastering which is a completely different skill.
And re the Death magnetic thing it is not badly mastered BUT badly mixed!
I believe that when it turned up at the mastering studio it was so loud the engineer rang up the producer and apparently asked WTF am I supposed to do with this. If you want to here a good version of Death Magnetic then apparently the Guitar Hero version was remixed from original multitracks.
Sorry to ramble but am mainlining Lavazza before entering the studio!
Oh and CD is a great format for buying music at a gig!

I've heard that story too, but I don't think it is totally true, as there is bad clipping on the mastered version so clearly whatever the engineer did has made it worse, not better.

As for being 'nothing wrong with mastering' you must be joking! I don't think I've heard a good mainstream CD for about 10 years! That's not to say the engineers are at fault, more likely the labels pressurising them to make the sound more in your face.

They're useful for heating your front room, I'll give you that.

Our singer/guitarist used to heat his Ginsters rider on it! It may be weird but I just love the smell, if I could bottle it I'd make a car air freshner out it.. hot ECC83s and ArmourAll..

Got into "hifi" in the nineties, all Linn Sondeks and what have you, there were big discussions when cd came out. can only imagine what this forum would have made of the for and against arguments, definetly have been tears.

I can understand the anaologue v digital argument (of which I think ano is better for what its worth) but digital against digital? Dont really get it, surely a cd is just the carrier it like arguing flash memory sound better than a hard drive.

In fact wouldnt a solid state memory be better at transfering data as theres no moving parts and less room for error?

Either way Cd's a dead duck, gone to a cloud in the sky which is were well all be getting our music from soon.

Ian

People actually own CDs?

..Why?

And no matter the technical implosion, I will always have the original should I need it.

And they feel nice.

Although not as good as sliding an LP out of it's dust sleeve, lifting it to the light and gently blowing any dust off the surface before dropping it onto the turntable.

Because I can rip a CD but I can't make a CD out of an MP3.

I can.

How do you calculate the bit-rate of an analogue medium?

You won't even "own" any files before long it will all be streamed from the cloud ala spotify on our uber wireless internet connections.

I love buying a CD and being able to flick through the book and look at the artwork, however most of my listening is now done on my iPhone when I'm out and about or sat at my desk in the office, even with an excellent set of headphones (B&W C5s) it doesn't compare to sitting at home listening to an CD played through the hifi.

vinyl will win everytime, especially in a club scenario

I've never been in in a club using anything more than 1210's (or whatever those cheep looking shiny ones that people who like scratching use) and a £70 stanton cartridge. Not a bad sounding setup, but the average hi-fi buff is going to turn his nose up at it!

CDJ's and their MP3 cousins will (and to a large extent, already have) takeover. Even just for practical reasons, big clubs get vinyl delivered by the crate, logisticaly that's a nightmare to store, whereas a laptop and external drive could probably hold every song ever played in the club.

Bit like BMX Vs MTB, no denying that a BMX is better for dirtjumping/skateparks/street, but people buy MTB's as they're practical.

it doesn't compare to sitting at home listening to an CD played through the hifi.

Quite.

Drac - Moderator
Because I can rip a CD but I can't make a CD out of an MP3.
I can.

Roach makes a good point, I listen to stuff on Spotify unlimited more than anything else at the moment. £5/month you can't go wrong!

big clubs get vinyl delivered by the crate

is that true - most DJs have their own vinyl/digital collection?

Including the sleeve and booklet printing?

You said the CD but yeah you can get those too.

Drac - Moderator
Including the sleeve and booklet printing?
You said the CD but yeah you can get those too.

TBF we are being pedantic - we both know what the other is saying 😉

I've discovered that £200 gets you an OK needle for a record deck definately not as good as £500 though.

try the Denon DL304 - about £200 but performs at a higher level and is very neutral.

TBF we are being pedantic - we both know what the other is saying

Well kind of but to claim you can't make a CD out of MP3s is wrong.

The vast majority of stuff I listen to is MP3, but I virtually always buy CDs rather than downloads- as pointed out above, it's not really any more expensive and then I've got the MP3 and the CD, so I can use it in the car and I've still got the original if my computer dies.

On top of that, there are other intangible aspects to it rather than just owning the tracks. Getting a new CD reminds me of getting a new album when I was a kid and poring over the artwork and any liner notes. Even though getting a new CD isn't such an event there's still a little bit of that you don't get from MP3s, and some artists have raised their game in terms of the packaging in the last few years I think.

And CD is still my format of choice for those occasions when I just want to sit down with a drink and listen to music- there's something about browsing through them and sitting down with the notes that an MP3 just can't give you.

Or maybe I'm a luddite and I can't get my head around music not being attached to some physical artefact. Anyway, I know what I like and it's still CDs 😀

big clubs get vinyl delivered by the crate

is that true - most DJs have their own vinyl/digital collection?

Yes/No/depends on the club.

All DJ's wil have their own stuff, but the clubs I worked in had huge collections as well, mainly because they get sent a lot of stuff for free or before it's release date, there were even subscriptions you could take out which sent you pre-release stuff.

Happy memeories of listening to someone playing Galvanise before it was released, then stoping halfway through to appologise as it was sh**.

Glad there are some CD lovers out there. 😀
The day I'm forced to buy music by download only, will be the day I stop buying music. It's not that I necessarily think the CD reigns supreme, but I want some sort of physical media to store music on.
I still love the excitement of getting hold of new music with the sleeve notes, cover art and that new album smell. I must buy probably about 12 to 15 Cds on average a month and would buy more if a) I could afford it and b) I had more time to listen to them!
I find CDs far more convenient and reliable quality than downloads and my hifi is far superior soundwise than my pc.

Many of my CDs are at least 20 years old, so I don't know where the 10 year lifespan idea comes from???

The problems I see for the CD, is that many people these days seem to have a really short attention span and flick from tune to tune all the time (sometimes before they've finished!) rather than sitting down and committing to an album's worth and many can't tell how crap most mp3s sound, because they've never heard how incredible music can sound form a better source, played through a reasonable hifi with good speakers.

[i]The day I'm forced to buy music by download only, will be the day I stop buying music[/i]

dont get this attitude

I dont ever want to stop buying/listening to music. the artist/music is waaaaay more important than what you listen to it on.

emsz wrote:

dont get this attitude

I dont ever want to stop buying/listening to music. the artist/music is waaaaay more important than what you listen to it on.

Yeah, you're right of course - I do feel that way though. 🙁
I've downloaded the odd album or EP, (maybe half a dozen, I reckon), but I have to burn them to CD to listen to properly anyway, which is a ball ache and even if I print off the sleeve and box them up, thay still feel "dirty" like a pirated album... 😆

Can I ask how old most of CD lovers are? I can only see the CD dying it has to. The DJ's I know now use a thing called "vinyl scratch??" where you have a record that you can scratch/play with then all the music is on a laptop, although they still have large vinyl collection, they certainly aren't carrying huge record bags around so much!

I'm 41, so vinyl and tapes were king when I was getting into music, and doubtless that colors my view.

Still, I don't see CD dying out anytime soon any more than I see DVDs being replaced by Bluray. They're (relatively) cheap, durable, portable, can be transformed into other formats, and everybody has the equipment to play them on. And audiophiles aside they have all the sound quality you need. What's not to like?

tails - over 50 CD lover here. 8)

I think one difference is that music is treated as 'background' whereas this old girl prefers to be enveloped in it and it has my full attention.

You won't even "own" any files before long it will all be streamed from the cloud ala spotify on our uber wireless internet connections.

think we're a ways off this yet. tried listnening to FM on the move recently? still not very good, despite the ubiquity of FM transmission. OK - you can do a lot with buffering, but bandwidth through mobile networks is going to have to go up a lot before that's effective, and look how happy they've been to help out with decent bandwidth for smart phones in the past few years...

anyway - i still like cds. even if i get given a copy of an album i'll often still buy it, in the end. an anonymous ripped cd on the shelf doesn't get much play. i need artwork to help an album stand out in my mind. it's just the way my brain works. or doesn't! 😀

I'm more worried about the concept of an album dying out than the format they are transported on.

If you're going to download most yoofs are just picking the singles out. You don't get a chance to construct your album as people just want tracks 1,2,3 and 11.

Didn't Wedding Present release a single every month a few years ago. I can almost see it like that all the time, just bang out a song a week/month ad infitum. You may never get those album tracks that would never be a single (or are frankly actually crap, but you like them for some reason).

i need artwork to help an album stand out in my mind

Maybe you just need some decent music. :p

The CD was only ever the king of convenience for a while.

41 here.
As a side note regarding DJs:
The popularity of the media for dance music DJs to carry their tunes on varies depending on the genre - for example, I listen to a lot of psytrance where the CD is still the most popular medium for DJs (But software based lap-top mixing is on the rise.)
In techno, Cds never caught on at all and you've mainly got vinyl die-hards (who value sound quality uppermost) and those who've embraced lap-top mixing or a combimation of the two.
I can't speak so much for other genres - but I know a bit about these two! 😉

think we're a ways off this yet. tried listnening to FM on the move recently? still not very good, despite the ubiquity of FM transmission. OK - you can do a lot with buffering, but bandwidth through mobile networks is going to have to go up a lot before that's effective, and look how happy they've been to help out with decent bandwidth for smart phones in the past few years...

My mate has Spotify unlimited on his mobile and it's brilliant.

Many of my CDs are at least 20 years old, so I don't know where the 10 year lifespan idea comes from???

I ripped a load of CDs about 10 years ago. 1 of the discs bought in the late 80's/ early 90's had corroded under the polycarbonate and was unplayable. Stored in the dry and warm for it's whole life. TPB provided a back-up copy.

MSP - Member
They would already be dead if the music industry wasn't so eager to rip off the consumer for downloads. Buying a CD from play or amazon is still the cheapest legal way to get music, and its no big deal to rip it into whatever format you want.

Hey? please explain & i will then correct you 😉

Spotify Premium (streams mp3 at 320kbps) is good enough on the laptop / mobile for ease of access to music. Prefer CD for the HiFi, or FLAC - both sound better than Spotify.

No difference between FLAC and CD for me - I do like having physical media around, it's just not the same selecting the music from a screen, no matter how much you customise Foobar or use pretty players. Digital album art is pants.
Wanted a decent phono stage and deck for a while now, listening to music should be an event.

I have a strong dislike for the prevailance of poor quality encoding, people just don't seem to care...

41 here.
As a side note regarding DJs:
The popularity of the media for dance music DJs to carry their tunes on varies depending on the genre - for example, I listen to a lot of psytrance where the CD is still the most popular medium for DJs (But software based lap-top mixing is on the rise.)
In techno, Cds never caught on at all and you've mainly got vinyl die-hards (who value sound quality uppermost) and those who've embraced lap-top mixing or a combimation of the two.
I can't speak so much for other genres - but I know a bit about these two!

That's an interesting point does your genre reflect your media type.

Do the CD lovers still have ipods as there is no arguing a an ipod nano is for more practical than a CD walkman!

I like the idea of having all my digital items in a "cloud" but that's possibly down to me preferring to have fewer possessions, as I also certainly know people who like to sit down with a pile of CD's or vinyl.

I personally love the feel of physically handling the vinyl....

Learning how your records sounded by sight, and then dropping/mixing them without headphones was quite a satisfying skill.

Oh, and the crackle - can't beat that...

Do the CD lovers still have ipods as there is no arguing a an ipod nano is for more practical than a CD walkman!

I had a (non-iPod) mp3 player until it broke, just for commuting and the like. It was full of albums ripped from CD, not downloads, but for portability, yeah, iPods make a lot of sense. I'll probably buy another one at some point.
I couldn't have one as my sole music source, though. (They don't make one that'll hold all my albums for starters.)

Albums are an anachronism - they flourished briefly in the mid/end of the 20th century. we're back to singular songs. This is a good thing, though creators of music are still rather wedded to the idea of an album being greater than the sum of its parts.

On Saturday, I went to the world's best records shop (Piccadilly Records, Manchester). I bought 7 albums. I could have bought all of them on vinyl. Instead, I chose CDs - why?

Convenience - I can listen to them in the car, rip them to my ipod, listen on my stereo at home. LPs would have restricted me to listening at home only, and then ensuring Baby North doesn't wreck my LP12.

Now, were all the LPs to have come with an option for a free download of the album, then I could have had the glories of the music at home and on the move.

[i] we're back to singular songs[/i]

Not yet, we're not

Do the CD lovers still have ipods as there is no arguing a an ipod nano is for more practical than a CD walkman!

Yeah, I have an iPod Nano. 8Gb, and I could do with one with more storage as it doesn't hold anywhere near all my albums. It was a pressie from the other half. It pretty much stays in my work bag so I can listen to music at work, and I also use it sometimes when walking to the shops etc. I am yet to plug it into my stereo & use it as a main source, although I keep meaning to get some ickle speakers to take camping that I can use it with.

An mp3 player is infinitely more practical than any other portable music device, agreed.

But I always struggle to decide what to listen to with my iPod. I don't know why. I scroll through the albums back and forth and invariably stick it on random. At home with CDs, I look at them & my mind makes a decision very quick about what kind of mood i am in and what album I should listen to. Weird, I've never understood why that is.

Not yet, we're not

Bunno, bought a few albums recently, all rubbish despite most of them coming off the back of a string of good singles. Chase and Status was good, but only because the tracks are all brilliant, there's no theme or cohesiveness to the album.

Even Masterdon admit their latest album was written as a load of singles rather than arround a story/theme.

The other symptom of this is that albums now seem to have over 50% released as singles, and even more recently the idea of releasing singles mid week to coencide with their playing on the radio thus ensureing the single isn't released on the internet first.

[i]I have a strong dislike for the prevailance of poor quality encoding, people just don't seem to care...[/i]

nope really don't care. I want to impressed by the artistry not the sound quality.

There are atill 1000s of albums released every week, so we're not back to individual songs.

[i] I want to [be] impressed by the artistry not the sound quality[/i]

Absolutely.

I couldn't have one as my sole music source, though. (They don't make one that'll hold all my albums for starters.)

An ipod classic holds 40000 songs apparently, you have a lot of music! ! !

But I always struggle to decide what to listen to with my iPod. I don't know why. I scroll through the albums back and forth and invariably stick it on random. At home with CDs, I look at them & my mind makes a decision very quick about what kind of mood i am in and what album I should listen to. Weird, I've never understood why that is.

That's interesting as on itunes and I imagine the windows alternative you have so many settings you could easily group the genres. Do you think you would use the ipod more if all of the cover art and sleeve info was also on a screen in front of you?

Oh, and the crackle - can't beat that...

Albums are an anachronism - they flourished briefly in the mid/end of the 20th century

nope really don't care. I want to impressed by the artistry not the sound quality.