…bucket of water or two might have acted as an incentive. There’s no point in trying to be polite
Let us know how that works out if you ever do it.
You catch more flies with honey than hen shit. All action like you suggest will likely do is escalate things really rapidly.
When I burn the shop paperwork it’s amazing how even though it looks out at the top ,the bottom is still smouldering nicely even 2 days later.
The fires have just been on the Radio Scotland news. I am surprised that there's not been more prominent coverage . Fires are fairly common around Lochaber towards the end of winter and in spring. Some caused by muirburn but often also by campfires and barbecues. I'd agree with a ban on fires at times of risk. I'd also agree with a general presumption against fires and barbecues on any kind of campsite. When I started hillwalking in the 70s the basic idea was to leave no trace.
Any updates this morning OP? Hope all is well.
Many interpret that as "no visible" trace. It IS possible to have a fire properly and many have being doing so for years. However, as I already pointed out, it is setting an expectation amongst those less prepared and trained. In all my years of camping I've had a fire three times. Two of those I'm happy with, the third I regret.
I was also involved in causing a small moorland fire in Affric many years ago, in that a friend of mine was following the "wipe and burn" toilet paper guidance when an ember set some dried grass on fire. The spread was rapid and it didn't go deep, so even the heather wasn't affected, but it was scary.
Any updates this morning OP? Hope all is well.
After 15-20mm of rain last night (and the efforts of fire crews and various others) the fires seem.to be extinguished. There is still debris on some of the roads that will need to be cleared up.
Any updates this morning OP? Hope all is well.
Just heard that the Dava roads are closed again, with a fire up at the AA box. Always likely I guess.
Just heard that the Dava roads are closed again, with a fire up at the AA box. Always likely I guess.
Arsonists Anonymous?
(Too soon maybe?)
Looks like your fires finally made the BBC new.
And Floods.
Firefighters continue to tackle Highland and Moray wildfires for fourth daypublished at 14:52
Firefighters are working tirelessly to tackle wildfires across Highland and Moray for the fourth day in a row.
The blaze began on Saturday morning and firefighters are continuing to tackle pockets of fire in various locations - from Nairn in Highland to Knockando in Moray,
Deputy Assistant Chief Officer Ross Robison of the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service says: “The vast scale of these fires has been challenging for our crews over the past four days, particularly because of the strong winds that have caused the fires and smoke to spread further across the landscape."
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Flood alerts issued in parts of Scotlandpublished at 14:43
The UK's highest temperatures of the year have been recorded today in Kent and south-east England, but there are mixed conditions across other parts of the UK.
In contrast to the intense heat in south-east England, flood alerts are in place across large parts of Scotland.
The Scottish Environment Protection Agency says heavy rainfall on Tuesday afternoon and evening might lead to flooding in:
- West central Scotland
- Central Scotland
- Aberdeenshire and Aberdeen City
- Tayside
- Findhorn, Nairn, Moray and Speyside.
The five separate warnings came into effect this morning.
It comes as firefighters enter their fourth day of battling wildfires in some parts of the Scottish Highlands and Moray - we'll have more on that in our next post.
Glad you are OK convert. Just remember that you can always ask a mate (scotroutes) if ever you need to organise wife and cat first, so that bikes can be recovered....
As someone who runs firelighting courses, yes you can leave no trace and yes you and (and often should) make the 'no fire' decision. After two interrupted years due to high fire risk, we are both moving our training to winter and re-writing our guidance to schools to bolster the decision to not light up.
Yes, climate change is affecting this. There are some tools which show this. Untick all the boxes except Wildfire: https://open-data-national-trust.hub.arcgis.com/apps/National-Trust::climate-hazards-23/explore
Oh, and anyone who lives south and east of about Leicester, you are f*ck*d with climate change issues of heat, drought, wildfire and more... https://open-data-national-trust.hub.arcgis.com/apps/National-Trust::climate-hazards-23/explore
Ta Matt.
We rode up the Goyt valley in the Peak district on Sunday, where there was a huge wildfire not too long ago. The wildfire there was featured on 'Countryfile' recently. To see the devastation up close is truly heart rending. The ground nesting birds, insect life, flora and mammal life completely destroyed and recovery (although we could see some green shoots) painstakingly slow.
This fire caused pollution for miles. In our own home windows had to be kept shut and ash still got in, all this and we're five miles away.
Several years ago the moors beyond and above Stalybridge were burning well into the night, to this day I can still see the line where the fire stopped from our house. Years and years to recover.
Hopefully something can be done to stop these idiots taking tiktok videos and encouraging their 'mates' to take fires/bbqs or just smoking out into the countryside (especially the moorland). It's been apparent by the number of mountain rescue team call outs recently that some people don't give a toss about anything but themselves and their enjoyment.
Do we really think no one should light a campfire?
When fire conditions are extreme in Oz we're not only banned from fires but also not supposed to use grinders, lawnmowers etc. Any spark can set things off. Even a hot car exhaust in long grass can be a risk.
We had one here at Cupwith Hill/Slaithwaite Moor a year or two ago that I'm pretty convinced was started by someone flying a model 'plane.
30 years ago in Provence, was planning to climb on Mont St Victoire. Except they didn't have fire starting bans, they had just closed the whole area. And while it wasn't obviously policed, everyone was conforming. I guess it's about more assertive public education and making people understand the consequences.
Seems astonishing that it takes time to get a byelaws in place .
SDNP are posting warnings on their insta, but i haven't seen any notices in car parks or on trails yet.
And as for having to have fires, even well prepared, that's stupid, what about sparks carried up and then on the breeze. 50 year tradition be damned.
There were a number of wildfires in Snowdonia in April. We could see them for miles. This went on a number of weeks with outbreaks all over.
Bit of video someone has uploaded to FB from Monday. We've lost the equivalent of 10500 football pitches of woodland and moor. A farmer neighbour had the fire within 30ft of his house & farm buildings with the fire service working hard to save them. If the wind had not dropped and the rain had not arrived I think the consequences could have been pretty significant. We got lucky.
edit - arse, can't upload. I give up - it wasn't all that good!
What happened to the German couple and their dog?
What happened to the German couple and their dog?
Although have to admit people do ridiculously stupid things at times, not all these wildfires can be put down to bbq's, or as mentioned 'deliberate' that tbh i suspect such a case would be extremely rare, and more down to people being shortsighted or unable to grasp simple premise of dry grass/heather+fire isnt a good idea, and they allow it to die out rather than putting it well out using water.
So while in those cases they are responsible, not criminally responsible per se because in more there will be no intent
I remember one from 1995 or 6 Scottish series sailing regatta up at Tarbert on Loch Fyne.
Usual stuff, most competitors are well inebriated when some silly sod sets off a parachute flare. This floats over the village and settles in the heather surrounding the town. By nightfall the entire hillside behind most of Tarbert is well alight
No harm to life and did eventually get put out, and far as i heard the culprit basically got a large fine.
Which is in fact a pretty good definition of recklessness. That doesn’t require intent, it simply requires the man on the Clapham omnibus to reason that lighting a fire, or a bbq, or sending flares into tinder dry heather moorland during a heatwave and prolonged dry spell is likely to set thousands of hectares of valuable countryside alight, kill thousands upon thousands of living creatures, endanger many, many people, their homes, buildings and their livelihoods, and cost landowners and the taxpayer hundreds and hundreds of thousands just to fight the consequences.
correct scapegoat - hence that guy with the flare got fined.
Heatwave / prolonged dry spell and fire is a reckless mix
There have been local efforts to get Chinese Lanterns banned. TBF, I've not seen any for a couple of years.
Was walking up around Wirksworth/Carsington this today, everywhere is dangerously dry, never seen it like this in 25 years up here.
Even a hot car exhaust in long grass can be a risk.
I had to point out to the farm owner in 2022 heatwave that having long dry grass in a car park used by petrol cars was a very bad thing. Catalytic convertors being hot as they are and under the vehicle. It hadn't occurred to them!
Was walking up around Wirksworth/Carsington this today, everywhere is dangerously dry, never seen it like this in 25 years up here.
Click that risk map link I posted above - one of the layers is wildfires 2050... Another reason anyone living south and east of Birmingham is in for a very worrying future, and all of us face it as an increased risk.
One of the other layers is landslips - and I live at the base of an old railway embankment (my garden) which has moved the last couple of years after particularly intense rainfall....
Was walking up around Wirksworth/Carsington this today, everywhere is dangerously dry, never seen it like this in 25 years up here.
Click that risk map link I posted above - one of the layers is wildfires 2050... Another reason anyone living south and east of Birmingham is in for a very worrying future, and all of us face it as an increased risk.
We're above Birmingham, might soon have to move further north like you did!
Its not about influencers or anything else - its a long standing tradition in general to do so and I have known of folk doing it well before influencers or marketing got involved way back to the 50s and beforeI remember seeing a video of some famous scots mountaineers with a campfire way back when ( can't find it now) where they talked about how nice it was to have one. Am I just stuck in the past? Is this group?
In the 50s it was probably realistically being used for heat or cooking (or at least by people who's parents had used it for that)! With modern materials and lightweight stoves it's a social focus. I get that - its the same as a fireplace at home (and many of your critics here have log burners). The access rules don't actually exclude it
although they certainly don't encourage it. Twenty years on, it might be time to reflect if the access code needs updated on wild camping, fires etc. where people push the definition of "responsible".
Oh and it might not be driven by Influencers as we've come to think of them in social media terms but it is driven by people with influence.
Interesting discussion on campfires. Thanks for that and apologies for the thread digression
A few thoughts. Australia where I was for a few months - almost all campsites provide fire pits including the very basic dept of Conservation ones in national parks. ( there is no wild camping allowed) they do have fire bans at times of high risk of wildfires but clearly camp fires are seen as a normal part of camping. Aus clearly has overall a much higher risk of wildfires. Aus also has bans on firewood collection in the national parks t as deadfall wood is seen as a necessary thing for wildlife so you have to bring your wood in from outside.
I don't think a total ban is proportionate in Scotland but perhaps we need to move from "we must have a campfire" to "Is a campfire reasonable in these circumstances?". " is it reasonable to collect wood here?"
Given the places this group camp there is no issue with setting a precedent for others - campsites are normally hidden with no other campers around to see what we are doing. We have had contact with landowners / land managers fairly frequently and not once have we been asked not to have a fire. Sometimes the land manager has joined us around the fire.
its hard to accept a total no when the landowners are still burning the hillsides to shoot grouse
Clearly in times of high fire risk it would not be reasonable to light a fire
anyway - good food for thought here. thanks
its hard to accept a total no when the landowners are still burning the hillsides to shoot grouse
Indeed, and muirburn *must* be stopped.
I too rarely have a campfire these days - the few times we do it is a kelly/ghillie kettle on a river bank using driftwood.
I am very aware of the environmental consequences of stripping an area of dead wood these days as well.
Perhaps we are seeing a future with a March 1st to October 30th ban on campfires or outdoor fires of any kind?
Some morons decided to have a big ****ing bonfire in my local woods. Discovered the still smouldering embers whilst out with the dog.
Headed home and came back on the bike with the lad and 10L of water.
Had to send the lad back to get another 5l to make sure it was properly out.
Good job we found it and actually decided to do something about it. Plenty of people will have walked past it this morning.
Boils my piss!
Boils my piss!
I'd probably just use tap water.
Many years ago I did put out a campfire by peeing on it. It wasn't my best decision
its hard to accept a total no when the landowners are still burning the hillsides to shoot grouse
Indeed, and muirburn *must* be stopped.
Which I totally believe in. But mainly because of the monoculture it generates (and coming a very distant second, the aesthetic). And also killing an animal for sport and pleasure - I'd rather no one killed animals for food too, but that another level.
But .....locally the national park and emergency services have gone out of their way to praise estate workers for their "essential 'muriburn' skills" in tackling the fires this last week, working alongside the emergency services with their specialist equipment. And....it pains me to say this... the muriburn areas of the moor are less decimated by the fires than the wooded and rewilded areas. Now, you could make a very good case that's because it's in a permanent state of devistation - but less of it was burnt this week by the wild fire and it's hard to make a case that it hasn't.
Sadly, I think events like this week only strengthen their case in terms of stopping change to happen and banning muriburn....which I find incredibly depressing to write.
Muirburn IIRC is included in the licensing conditions . There used to be a code of conduct that was roundly ignored. Muirburn may reduce wildfire risk but it comparison to the devastation it causes ......?
I am sure that the estates will ignore the licensing provisions on muirburn as they have ignored the voluntary code
https://www.nature.scot/doc/grouse-and-related-licences-frequently-asked-questions-faqs
Drove over the Dava today for the first time since the fires. I've never seen burning on that scale in Scotland before. Some bits still smoking.
And someone had a campfire just a few mikes away at Loch Vaa last night...
Big tent and gazebo.
