Forum menu
..its a pointless argument as no one is arguing that helmets will make it impossible to injure you
And no one is saying that helmets are useless.
What we are trying to say is that helmets are such a tiny part of the safety debate that the amount of attention paid to them is ridiculous.
The debate should be about driver training, cyclist training, ad campaigns, infrastructure, etc and yet every single time it comes back to helmet legislation.
If we start to accept their limitations in RTCs maybe we can finally move the debate on.
mastiles_fanylion - MemberBut none at all against cars/motorbikes/lorries/busses ...
Do all RTC with cars/motorbikes/lorries/ busses(sic) involve the cyclist having their head run over?
Very doubtful.
But how does a helmet protect you if you go under the wheels of a 10ton lorry?
Would the helmet protect your neck any better than being struck at 60mph by an oncoming car?
BruceWee - Member..its a pointless argument as no one is arguing that helmets will make it impossible to injure you
And no one is saying that helmets are useless.
What we are trying to say is that helmets are such a tiny part of the safety debate that the amount of attention paid to them is ridiculous.
BruceWee - MemberIt's pretty irresponsible to go around saying that helmets are going to do you any good in a collision.
BruceWee - MemberSeriously, if there's one message that cyclists should be trying to get across to drivers it's that bicycle helmets offer no protection in an RTC.
Make you mind up on which message your trying to say then
Make you mind up on which message your trying to say then
Stop telling drivers that helmets are going to save cyclists if the hit them. Move the debate on to training, advertising, awareness, infrastructure.
Those are the points I've been trying to get across all along.
Nothing could protect you against being run over by a bus or lorry or motorbike..
Move the debate on to training, advertising, awareness, infrastructure.
For drivers or cyclists? Best metaphor I've heard for this:
[b]You've put us in a cage with lions and your offering us protective clothing and lion taming lessons. [/b]
FFS do something about the Lions:
- strict enforcement of traffic laws. You're driving a two ton hunk of metal - you obey speed limits, you obey traffic signals, you drive at appropriate speeds for the conditions (which is often lower than the speed limit), you don't use your mobile phone
- you **** up, you lose your licence and have to retake your test.
- we drop the speed limit to 20mph on all roads without segregated cycle infrastructure.
- we put in place segregated cycle infrastructure (with priority at junctions)
Stop the hurt, don't give me a sticking plaster.
Is STW about to implode all the threads eem to be converging including lion analogies
nick1962 - Memberkcr - Member
More people cycling is the best way to improve safety for cyclists.
Safety in numbers ,like being in herd of wilderbeest so only the old ,sick and young get eaten by the lions
Drivers of small cars, especially the superminis, are four times more at risk of death
in a collision with a larger car than drivers of the largest type of car.
How likely is it that the drivers of the largest type of car will be in collision with a larger car?
Has there been any research done on helmet use in cases of grand pianos falling from the sky and landing on your head?
Or incidents involving Acme Rocket powered roller skates?
[img] 
[/img]
If not, its a glaring omission
Full Video...
One of the first things he says "I'm probably too tipsy to start talking about this now."
Yay, Boris has joined in now. National darling says helmets should be compulsory, village idiot says no they shouldn't be. Theres only one way to settle it.......
FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!
but what weapons? I say spoons.
From Twitter a little while ago,
[b]@bradwiggins[/b]Just to confirm I haven't called for helmets to be made the law as reports suggest
[b]@bradwiggins[/b]
I suggested it may be the way to go to give cyclists more protection legally I involved In an accident
- strict enforcement of traffic laws. You're driving a two ton hunk of metal - you obey speed limits, you obey traffic signals, you drive at appropriate speeds for the conditions (which is often lower than the speed limit), you don't use your mobile phone
- you **** up, you lose your licence and have to retake your test.
I agree. Though at the same time you have to apply the same to the cyclists. Day in day out I see stupid dangerous actions by fellow cyclists (and occasionally myself!) which not only put themselves in danger but others too, and to then bring all the enforcement against the driver is a bit of hipocrisy. Everything should be applied equally, only then do you stand a chance of having equal respect of each other on the road.
[img] 
[/img]
looked in the video like he had but I'm guessing he had other things on his mind, was a little tipsy, got ambushed with the question and is a freaking awesome athlete so we'll let him off eh?@bradwigginsJust to confirm I haven't called for helmets to be made the law as reports suggest
🙂
+10000
The problem wouldn't be half as bad if the cyclists were seen as law abiding moral high ground holders.
All bike manufacturers should employ [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kontakt-5 ]Kontakt-5[/url] in their frame building process(not for weight weenies).Should ensure cars give you a wide berth but whatever you don't drop your bike.
Or why not go the whole hog and get some of these now redundant bad boy enforcers into the urban jungle.I'll take the driver at 0.48 seconds
Just saw this after the last tweet of Bradley.
@bradwiggins it's a valid one tho, as a driver I am so nervous driving alongside cyclists without helmets. Its like driving w/out a seatbelt
Day in day out I see stupid dangerous actions by fellow cyclists (and occasionally myself!) which not only put themselves in danger but others too, and to then bring all the enforcement against the driver is a bit of hipocrisy
Maybe. I'd argue that it rarely puts anyone else in danger. Deaths and injuries caused by cyclists are statistically insignificant. Deaths by motor vehicles not.
Bella Bathurst:
“Cyclists [in the UK] were faced with a landscape which either took no interest in them or appeared keen on actively eliminating them…the law ignored [cyclists]. The solution for many of them was to develop a style of cycling based on a combination of mountain biking, road racing, BMX skills and gymnastics…The law ignored them, so they ignored the law.”
The style of riding in Netherlands is much more relaxed. It's hard to ride slowly when you're expected to mix and merge with traffic travelling at 30mph
Maybe. I'd argue that it rarely puts anyone else in danger
Cyclist do something stupid, driver try to avoid him, drivers hit pedestrian.
Not such an unlikely occurence.
This thread is a disgrace.
You've put us in a cage with lions and your offering us protective clothing and lion taming lessons.FFS do something about the Lions
I will be using this in the future!
*double post*
Not such an unlikely occurence.
But unlikely enough that I've never heard of it being claimed as the cause of an accident. Lots of guff about the "danger" of cyclists breaking traffic laws but as far as I can see they're almost never a danger to anyone but themselves (and even then a very small fraction of cyclist KSIs where the cyclist is actually at fault)
But unlikely enough that I've never heard of it being claimed as the cause of an accident
Well if you have never heard of it...
It seems to me that people are actually mixing things up. Structures and education = preventive measures.
Helmet and protective gear = protective measures.
They are not antagonist one with the other.
JEEEZ...........!
How difficult can it be to use common sense and minimise, minimise, minimise?
Maybe. I'd argue that it rarely puts anyone else in dangerCyclist do something stupid, driver try to avoid him, drivers hit pedestrian.
Not such an unlikely occurence.
you sir are a buffoon
[url= http://www.sillycyclists.co.uk/2012/05/episode-39/ ]cyclist never do anything stupid.[/url]
no one is saying they don't
According to some on here it's always the motorists fault
According to some on here it's always the motorists fault
[img] 
[/img]
Love how this debate always comes back to evil car drivers and better driving standards....while completely ignoring the huge number of idiots on bikes.
Went out on the road for a few hours today (no helmet) and every car passed me with space to spare, on narrow roads cars waited (no revving or beeping) until they could pass safely, it was a joy....when i go out tomorrow on the MTB i will wear a helmet, i'd like to do some more Gravity Enduro next year and find myself pushing harder and harder on most rides....i've come off enough times among tree roots, stumps, rocks etc and seen the battle scars on my helmet to make me thankful it wasnt my scalp bearing the brunt of these lapses in talent....no car drivers, scary lorries or other such nonsense around....but still worth a helmet if you're likely to fall off, which i do from time to time.
However, on my way back in to town today i came across loads of kids (summer hols, oh joy) riding like dicks....no other word for it.
Riding two abreast while having a play fight involving pushing each other to the kerb or out to the road....riding on the pavement and then launching off the kerb into the road without checking if it was clear....its easy to blame the evil motorist but really and truly as a group we dont seem to have a minimum standard of competency for riding on the road, most adults i see out and about are fine but the kids seem intent on making themselves weaving, jumping RTC statistics.
Why's everyone latched on to the helmets point he made, it was one thing in a number of things he thought would increase safety.
He may be a good cyclist but he isn't God and so not everything he say will be gospel.
Hopefully his comments will send the debate in the right direction - its mainly the behaviour of motorists that is the biggest issue, not whether helmets should be made compulsory.
The driving test could feature a section on passing cyclists safely.....but to be fair the highway code covers this and a learner driver is expected to have studied this in preparation for their test.
I'd favour training in schools, both classroom, video and practical lessons.
Just for balance i've been out on two decent length road rides this week, encompassing country lanes, dual carriageway and town riding and not had any problems from cars.
Late to the party here.
What was Wiggins meant to say? he was fronted on TV during what should have been a happy time.
Wiggins is a racing cyclist and we somehow think some words from him would end all deaths forever.
For the record I've been riding a long old while now. Last year I was wiped out by a hit and run driver and left in the road. The back of my helmet was non existent after the collision. It may well have saved my life.
I safety officer wanted to use my lid as an example, but upon seeing it thought it was too graphic.
Where's TJ these day? He'd normally be all over this like a rash! It's been quite refreshing to have different people trundling out the same tired old arguments.
most adults i see out and about are fine but the kids seem intent on making themselves weaving, jumping RTC statistics.
Must be where you live. Most kids I see ride reasonably sensibly on road. Kids being kids? What next?
Anyway this thread was sparked by an adult cyclist death where a helmet would apparently have made no difference. An inch of polystyrene won't help when a bus drives over you.
What would help would be training for cyclists and more penalties for bad driving.
At the moment penalties are a joke. What will 3pts and a £37 fine for example do to discourage deliberate bad driving involving a punishment overtake. You'd get a bigger fine for overstaying on a parking meter.
http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/man-fined-37-for-careless-driving.html
not sure if anyone has linked to Wiggos account but,
Bradley Wiggins ?@bradwigginsI wasn't on me soap box CALLING, was asked what I thought #myopiniondoesntcountformuch
Expand6h Bradley Wiggins Bradley Wiggins ?@bradwiggins
I suggested it may be the way to go to give cyclists more protection legally I involved In an accident
Expand6h Bradley Wiggins Bradley Wiggins ?@bradwiggins
Just to confirm I haven't called for helmets to be made the law as reports suggest
The driving test could feature a section on passing cyclists safely.....but to be fair the highway code covers this and a learner driver is expected to have studied this in preparation for their test.
Well it already does to some extent - questions about passing cyclists and horse riders could feature in the theory test; and obviously if you encounter cyclists during your test you need to pass them safely. Rather than 'critical masses' cyclists could sort out a rota between themselves around their local test centre so that every driver would have to encounter them! Or we could realise that how people drive in their test and in reality is not the same.
Wiggo for PM
The most deadly vehicles as far as cyclists and all other road users for that matter are the big vehicles usually HGVs and as in this tragic case buses.The people who drive these drive professionally, 5 days a week most weeks of the year for years and years ,encountering cyclists, horses , pedestrians ,sleeping drivers,drunk drivers,Sunday drivers,tourists and god knows what else along the way,far more driving and far more experience of the road than most on here.How will a bit more driver training before they take their test realistically help reduce accidents for this group?
I just don't think it's that simple.
Got the stats for that Juan? I would be interested in seeing them.juan - Member
Cyclist do something stupid, driver try to avoid him, drivers hit pedestrian.
Not such an unlikely occurence.
6h Bradley Wiggins Bradley Wiggins ?@bradwigginsJust to confirm I haven't called for helmets to be made the law as reports suggest
he hath spoketh 8)
end of thread?
Video and more info
Same old re hash
For - protects your head
Against
Reduce numbers so effect on health - tbh I am not concerned as not my problem if someone else does not exercise.
Safety in numbers - probably an effect but could be countered by education
Drivers reaction to helmets - Perhaps a factor/probably but who knows how they are affected if everyone wears one.
Big problem with stats is that those who dont need to go to hospital because a helmet worked are not in the stats
i sometimes think this gets sidetracked to it wont save your life and we ignore the effect it will have for minor/major but non life threatening bumps.
i knocked myself out and fubbared a helmet but rode off nan bield...I would not have ridden off without a helmet though I would have lived and may have got a nice helicopter ride
Depends what you want tbh.
Personally I think it is daft not to but I would not make it compulsory