MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Something we may see in the near future ?
Because they will have your give up their deposit?
I have asked this too, of some rabid SNP/Yes supporters of my acquaintance. It transpires they consider it against their principles.
I also wonder if the referendum vote should have been extended to the whole of the UK electorate, and what would have happened ?
I was chatting to someone about this at the crag the other day. He had a theory that in time, if independence is not forthcoming, the SNP will lose some of their momentum as they are increasingly closely associated with "the establishment". At that point he reckoned that that they party could face a split between those who support the SNP for their perceived moderate left wing economic policies and those who support the nationalist cause and result in a new left wing party which could challenge over the whole of the UK.
I thought it was quite an interesting idea.
They could call it "Newer Labour"
Bacause they would score more votes than the Libs and that would be embarrassing for Nick and Dave.
[quote=Sancho said]They could call it "Newer Labour"
Older Labour would be more appropriate.
An informal progressive alliance seems to be emerging between SNP, Plaid Cymru and the English Green Party....its not official though.
There was a poll somewhere today that showed they would probably get around 11% of the Mainland UK vote. More than Lib Dems, but 2% less than UKIP.
The whole independence thing is probably too core but if you filed that off, I reckon a lot of people would be interested in what's left. After all, a lot of scottish people vote SNP but didn't vote for independence.
The SNP ultimately don't want to be at Westminster they want Home rule/Independance, they represent Scottish constituencies, why would they want seats in England, Wales or NI?
And there already exists a Left wing Independance [s]bunch of bampots[/s] Party called The Scottish Socialist Party who is/has been represented by everyones favourite tabloid swinger/baiter Tommy Sheridan (Raises clenched fist).
Instead of espousing independence for Scotland, they could change their name to the SENP (South East Nationalist Party), and try putting MPs up throughout the whole UK advocate independence for the South East of England instead.
Pretty much everyone would vote for that, I reckon
Given time, I think we'll see their equivalent in the North of England, a sort of True Labour.
They would probably win in Corby. 😀
Which North of England slow old git? Some very different demographics up there.
From the natural supporters of MPs like the late Jack Ashley and the Beast of Bolsover.
My for Stoke? That's the Midlands.
No point fixing the problem of Westminster politics if that's your main source of ammo for independence.
Tommy Sheridan hasn't been in the SSP since he got caught, get with the times. SSP have had their day IMO, Greens have more chance.
And I'd imagine it would be fairly obvious why SNP don't stand in England, much like Plaid, SinnFein and DUP. What is less obvious is why nobody has come up with a viable equivalent.
Voltaire was correct when he said "We look to Scotland for all our ideas of civlisation."
The North obviously depends on your viewpoint. For some of us The North started about Meaford power station, now gone, so now about N Stafford Services perhaps. That's based on accents, btw.
And for some of us that's the Midlands, beyond the crap ex Mill towns and slums there is an exotic and different North with rural ideals and a more right wing view at times. Think about it as the union vs league divide.
Sod that. North of the M25 is North.
The North obviously depends on your viewpoint.
I think that if you're as close to the south coast as you are to the border with scotland you're probably in the midlands.
who support the SNP for their perceived moderate left wing economic policies
I haven't yet seen any moderate left-wing economic policies from the SNP, I've actually seen some quite right-wing economic policies such as on taxation. I have seen plenty of left-wing social policies from the SNP though.
Whilst I'm happy to see Labour wiped off the Scottish political landscape by the SNP on May 7 I actually agree with Miliband's criticism of the SNP's policies - their figures just don't add up. Only in fantasy land can you combine neo-liberal economic policies with social-democratic levels of spending.
The SNP's anti-austerity campaign is extremely important and for that reason they have my support (and obviously the support of a lot of Scots). But the great danger is that having unsustainable policies will in the longer term undermine those who argue that austerity is not the solution and give further ammunition to those who peddle the TINA lie.
The problem is that the SNP unlike Plaid Cymru is not an instinctive left-wing party. It is fundamentally a right-wing party which initially stayed stationary as the Labour Party drifted further and further to the right. As disillusionment with the Labour Party among traditional Labour voters grew the SNP grabbed the opportunity and started attacking Labour from a left-wing perspective. All great stuff but potentially highly fraught.
I thought there was already a foolproof way of recognising where 'North' is? Isn't it (the North) about how you refer to one of these...
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Its a barm by the way
I haven't yet seen any moderate left-wing economic policies from the SNP, I've actually seen some quite right-wing economic policies such as on taxation. I have seen plenty of left-wing social policies from the SNP though.
Hence why I edited and added the word perceived as I do think that's the way they're seen.
Its a barm by the way
So what do you think we call them in the north?
No it isn't and there is only 35 miles between my home town and the border...
Could be a bun.
Ah, Mike, you mean the Empty Area. Got you: between Lancaster and the M8, about.
If you're from The North, then you're prepared to get into an argument on the subject. If you're from the south you'll just assume its a bread roll, and wonder why on earth everyone is getting so heated 😉
Originally from Northumberland and lived a lot in the lakes, so not that empty and a great area to live just less chips on the shoulder than the manc massive and the lanc/Yorkshire crap.
Being Northern isn't a badge or a political statement it's just geography, it gets very diverse (we even accept Sunderland) so don't badge what you see North of you as the North.
we even accept Sunderland
Steady on.
Hence why I edited and added the word perceived as I do think that's the way they're seen.
To be fair I had noted the word "perceived". And I agree - many people perceive the SNP to be left-wing, I've yet to see significant evidence beyond some very worthy social commitments.
In contrast Plaid Cymru were left-wing long before 'New Labour' was dreamt up by Brown, Mandelson, and Blair.
As a Scot living in York I might be willing to stand for the SNP provided you lot put up the deposit.
But please note that as a middle class STW type (I draw the line at VAG driving - terrible cars), you shouldn't expect anything radical from me.
More seriously, London is allegedly the biggest Scottish city in the UK by population. The SNP has considered putting up candidates in London in the past.
In the definition not anything else
FFS,that's a Bap 😉
No its not.
The SNPs primary policy stance is an independent Scotland which would be bad economically for both the UK and for Scotland. I don't understand why anyone outside Scotland would vote for the that, the SNP don't think so either that's why they don't field any candidates.
The SNP's primary policy stance in not an independent Scotland. It is a fairer and more just society. They see the only way of achieving that in the long term is to become an independent nation.
Is it? Or is that they see an independent nation being fairer? A lot of perception there.
The SNP are sick of all policy being made in London and the South East, exclusively for the benefit of London and the South East.
They're certainly not alone there.
Them and the North Midlands binners
It is all this tosh about a "fairer" society that puts me right SNP.
It is so subjective, and ultimately meaningless.
I'm against the idea of Scottish independence (and am not a Scot) but I can see that the SNP propose a lot of things that offer some interest to those that have been left behind by the 'New Labour' centralist stance. I could see the beginnings of a new socialist party that has influence in Scotland (obv) but also North England, particularly if they can avoid a split along the lines mentioned earlier in the thread between those who like the socialist side of the SNP and those who are more interested in the independence angle.
No mention of independence in their manifesto other than "The SNP will always support independence - but that is not
what this election is about. It is about making Scotland stronger" FWIW
At this election, we have the opportunity to shake up
the out of touch Westminster system so that it serves
Scotland better.
A vote for the SNP on May 7th is a vote for MPs who
will always stand up for Scotland's best interests.
It is a vote to make Scotland's voice heard at Westminster
more loudly than it has ever been heard before. And it
is a vote for more progressive politics.
The SNP will use our influence at Westminster to help
deliver positive change for the benefit of ordinary
people, not just in Scotland, but across the UK.
We propose a real alternative to the pain of austerity,
an end to unfair policies like the Bedroom Tax, a higher
minimum wage and protection for our NHS and vital
public services.
Instead of even deeper Westminster spending cuts,
we want to see more investment in our economy,
to create more and better paid jobs.
And we want the precious resources of our country to
be invested in building a better future for our children,
not on a new generation of nuclear weapons.
The SNP will never put the Tories into power.
Instead, if there is an anti-Tory majority after the election,
we will offer to work with other parties to
keep the Tories out.
And we will then use our influence to demand that
Labour delivers the real change that people want and
need - instead of just being a carbon copy of the Tories.
A vote for the SNP will make Scotland's voice heard -
loudly and clearly.
And it will help deliver new, better and more progressive
politics at Westminster for everyone.
My vow is to make Scotland stronger at Westminster.
With your support, we can secure a better future for
you, your family and Scotland.
More seriously, London is allegedly the biggest Scottish city in the UK by population.
North Sea oil is one thing but I reckon claiming that London is a "Scottish city" is pushing it a bit.
Will that be your last territorial claim ?
Bloody Immigrants!!! 😀
The SNP's primary policy stance in not an independent Scotland. It is a fairer and more just society. They see the only way of achieving that in the long term is to become an independent nation.
@wan, I see it 100% the other way round, the way they can get themselves into power with an independent Scotland is to promise things they cannot possibly deliver. Let's see how they do with the utopian vision with the power they have at Holyrood, of course failing means they can just keep blaming Westmister/Tories/The English
New Labour is in the center as that's where you have to be to win an election (nationally) and where it makes sense to be from an economic policy standpoint.
He had a theory that in time, if independence is not forthcoming, the SNP will lose some of their momentum as they are increasingly closely associated with "the establishment".
That is exactly what's happened to Plaid Cymru, their vote is down >20% in Westminster elections and down ~32% in Welsh Assembly elections over the last two decades.
Once you strip away the nonsensical policies only rabid nationalism is left.
I'm not particularly saying otherwise but plenty don't agree with me.
Scotland? I've heard of it and seen it on the news. Is it up North near London?
Yours,
Concerned from Dorset (near France)
The SNP are sick of all policy being made in London and the South East, exclusively for the benefit of London and the South East.They're certainly not alone there.
The SNP aren't sick of that at all as it plays to their "blame the English" agenda. The SNP have significant power and policy levers at Holyrood and have done a wonderful job of blaming everyone else / diverting attention from the fact they haven't achieved anything.
London pays £34bn more in taxes than is spent there and Westminster governments have moved large amounts of public sector jobs to the regions. It's simply not true that Westminster populated by MPs from throughout the UK is running the economy for the benefit of the South East
Of course not. They're doing it for the benefit of themselves and their mates regardless of where they live 😉
It's simply not true that Westminster populated by MPs from throughout the UK is running the economy for the benefit of the South East
Oh yeah... I forget about George's Northern Powerhouse!!! I believe we're getting a new choo choo train to Londoninium too 😆
I reckon the SNP strategy now is to get loads of MPs into Westminster and make such a complete and utter pains of themselves blocking votes and playing games to hold up decision-making, that after a couple of years we beg Scotland to leave UK if only to get rid of SNP from Westminster...
How the SNP introducing a country wide police force carry guns can be classed progressive? Further cuts to the tuition fees has been found to benefit the middle classes at a cost to the lowest.
Councils have seen budgets cut by 8.5% resulting in significant debt levels, with the SNP limiting their ability to raise council tax to make up the difference. And they moan about austerity elsewhere?
Councils have seen budgets cut by 8.5% resulting in significant debt levels, with the SNP limiting their ability to raise council tax to make up the difference. And they moan about austerity elsewhere?
Ah.....you've noticed a flaw.
Putting money where your rhetoric is, is not the SNP way.
Do people still eat white rolls? I'd forgotten what they look like. Must be a Scottish thing.
@wan, I see it 100% the other way round, the way they can get themselves into power with an independent Scotland is to promise things they cannot possibly deliver. Let's see how they do with the utopian vision with the power they have at Holyrood, of course failing means they can just keep blaming Westmister/Tories/The English
This tells me that I am on the correct side - the opposite one to you.
More seriously, London is allegedly the biggest Scottish city in the UK by population."ernie_lynch - Member
North Sea oil is one thing but I reckon claiming that London is a "Scottish city" is pushing it a bit.
Will that be your last territorial claim ?
Nicely done.
Territorial claims? How about a high speed rail corridor from Scotland (stopping en route in York obviously) by passing London straight though the channel tunnel and ending in the Alps?
Bunch of cowards, had the chance and chickened out. How some can sing the national anthem now without feeling shame I don't know.
Still the oil price bombed so perhaps for the best.
Reckon the quality of SNP leadership would do well at Westminster give the lack luster bunch of leaders from other parties. It would be a valid choice for some Welsh & English constituencies to have an SNP candidate.
Which chance was that mt?
This tells me that I am on the correct side - the opposite one to you.
That's democracy for you, we can both be right. Let's wait and see what sort of "revolution" the SNP can deliver from Holyrood. They had a referendum and they blew it big time failing to have an answer to the simplest questions, like what currency and EU membership.
To answer the original question, the SNP aren't standing in the UK as they offer nothing outside of their call for independence and as a consequence would get zero votes
the SNP aren't standing in the UK as they offer nothing outside of their call for independence and as a consequence would get zero votes
Only that's not actually true is it.
It increasingly looks like the SNP would actually run any Labour government so perhaps the SNP are standing in the UK after all
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SNP didn't introduce a police force with weapons. It was sir Stephen House, majority of his career spent outside Scotland, and he has apologised for that action.
SNP don't blame the English either. Westminster, yes, but not the English and its not England they want independence from its the UK.
SNP didn't introduce a police force with weapons. It was sir Stephen House, majority of his career spent outside Scotland, and he has apologised for that action.SNP don't blame the English either. Westminster, yes, but not the English and its not England they want independence from its the UK.
As if either of these facts will stop the rhetoric coming from usual suspects here and in the media.
It makes sense to have permanently armed police covering large expanses of very remote countryside where there is a high proportion of gun ownership in the community. The alternative is to have twice as many officers ie an armed and an unarmed cadre in each area - very expensive...or delay whilst an ARV gets to say Bonar Bridge from Glasgow.
It makes sense to have permanently armed police covering large expanses of very remote countryside where there is a high proportion of gun ownership in the community.
Even when there is little to no gun crime?
in Scotland the only question that will be asked of senior police after a slow response to a firearms incident will be "after Dunblane how could this be allowed to happen?"
Scottish police firearms decisions should be seen in that context.
Police Scotland have about 10 armed officers per 1000 on shift. Not exactly a show of paramilitary force.
in Scotland the only question that will be asked of senior police after a slow response to a firearms incident will be "after Dunblane how could this be allowed to happen?"
Derailing the debate slightly, but would armed officers on the street have prevented Dunblane?
I have no idea.
Probably not
in Scotland the only question that will be asked of senior police after a slow response to a firearms incident will be "after Dunblane how could this be allowed to happen?"Scottish police firearms decisions should be seen in that context.
Seeing as how the police in Dunblane were concerned about the perp's gun ownership, but were overruled by a senior officer, and the event occurred in an urban environment, not out in open, sparsely populated countryside, I'm not entirely sure what your point is, caller.
Hamilton was from Stirling, hardly a remote croft, and Dunblane has a cathedral, so officially a city.
Also, he was investigated over allegations concerning his activities with young children at summer camps he ran, but no action was taken.
Perhaps if something had been done about that, he wouldn't have had access to weapons.
Questions need to be asked about what senior police officers and the judiciary were doing, or not doing, at the time, but I doubt any more answers would be forthcoming now that they were then.
And having an armed police presence out in the countryside would be no more effective now than it would have been then, because they'd all be miles away from the actual shooting.
What a strange direction this thread has gone in. Of course you need a few armed officers spread about the place, so they can respond to any potential incident. To not have them would open themselves up to massive criticism should the worst happen and they were not able to respond for an extended length of time, vs virtually no downside of having them, save the hand wringing of a minority of worried whingers...
I'd call it a roll. (Glasgow)
Roll, Hawick.
Think the referendum and the press/UKIP simplification of the issues (if you're not for us, you're against us) along with the memories of a militant SNP of old means they'll never get a fair hearing on a local hustings outside Scotland.