If he is such a musical right wing figure head why is he still popular?
i quite like some of his solo stuff and was a fan of The Smiths and still like most of their catalogue. Watched them twice in the 80s. Loved the anti Royal and vegetarian sound bites.
My son loves The Smiths, and is about the same age I was when at school listening to them. He went from collecting Radiohead vinyl to Smiths.
He still liked Michael Jackson after finding out about his past🥴😐
oh and we are off to the O2 on Saturday, surprisingly it is showing as sold out.
Art vs Artist innit.
Is he popular enough these days for the required amount of people to care? He's acted like a whopper for years so it's not like anyone would be surprised.
we are off to the O2 on Saturday, surprisingly it is showing as sold out.
You're going to the Morrissey gig and wondering why he hasn't been cancelled? 🤔
Why do we have to cancel everyone who's opinion we may not agree with?
This. It's perfectly possible to disagree with someone's views without being offended by them, assuming those views aren't actually harmful*. He's a dickhead (I think) but people are allowed to be dickheads.
*and yes, I realise this is where the subjectivity rears it's head
Couldn't stand the music at the time, it's on my playlists these days. Daughter's boyfriend even complimented on my music choice in the car.... 'The Smiths'.
I would cancel him for the awful Smiths drivel. Other opinions exist.
We should cancel everyone who pays stupid money to go and see old hasbeens live in concert. Other opinions exist.
@policecameraaction
Apologies, i thought the first line was me questioning if he was so bad why has he not been cancelled.
I don’t have an issue with anybody’s opinion on any subject. Happy to just think what a fanny. I prefer to hear what people really think and not what they want others to hear. People on here try a bit to hard to show they are on the “right” side (but from the left🥴)
Sons treat on Saturday, asked for tickets for his birthday.
"There is no such thing in life as normal"... or rather there's no such thing in life as being cancelled. Some people will choose to not work with him, some people will choose not to listen to him at all, some will listen to his new music but not buy anything or go to gigs or otherwise fund him, some people will listen to the music and ignore all interviews. Me? Down the front at a Johnny Marr gig singing along.
i love cheese ham and jam sandwiches (other opinions may exist ;-p
You can't cancel the man who wrote The Queen is Dead for things he says, as you are demonstrating. Enjoy the sold out gig this weekend - Smiths music might be more popular than they ever due to TikTok generation, and he usually sings a few of the oldies. He's pretty washed now as a songwriter, imho, but his voice is superb (when he shows up).
He deserves to be cancelled irreversibly for his current Notre Dame effort, mind. My gosh that is a witless nadir - lyrics sound like Nigel Farage having a crack at writing a pop song.
I think a more pressing concern is, given the evidence of that painfully unfunny clip above, why haven't the Simpsons been cancelled...
------
i love cheese ham and jam sandwiches (other opinions may exist ;-p
There are some wrong 'uns populating this forum!
Jacko has some belting tunes, what happened to the monkey?
What's he said/done then?
Why do we have to cancel everyone who's opinion we may not agree with?
I don't think it happens like that. Some people say or do things that make them deservedly unpopular and they lose the platform they had, or they're ignored by a swathe people who decide they don't want to hear what they have to say anymore. When someone is known for one thing and then goes off on a tangent it doesn't always go well. It's like getting yourself blocked by a load of people online because you're annoying or talking dumbass rubbish.
It baffles me. I think where people express views that are not acceptable in modern society they should be ostracised. It's not like he's saying views that some people might disagree with, he's been actively racist in a way that is against the law-
"Everyone ultimately prefers their own race – does this make everyone racist?”
Morrissey has faced criticism over previous comments about race, which include describing the Chinese as a “subspecies”
If other people in the public eye came out and publicly called an entire race a subspecies there would be real repercussions - it's a crime after all. And yet, Morrissey seems immune to it. I hear his music out and about (unlike, for example, R Kelly). He's still supported commercially (unlike, say, Azealia Banks who was dropped by her booking agency and festival line ups for racism). People I respect otherwise listen to him and "separate art from artist" in a way that they don't with other artist that have done despicable things, in spite of these people being generally "right-on" (and especially gay friends - they just can't give Morrissey up).
He's said things that would constitute hate speech that no one is allowed to say. Morrissey definitely deserves to be cancelled.
Funny how right wingers reckon they can't say what they think without getting arrested and yet Bob Vylan and Kneecap are the ones in court...
It's almost like getting canceled for speaking their minds is a fantasy that exists only to fend off the truth that they are now an irrelevancy and might not even have been worth much to begin with.
But hey, enjoy the concert!
Jacko has some belting tunes, what happened to the monkey?
i think he was spanked repeatedly when the boys left.
If he is such a musical right wing figure head why is he still popular
........
oh and we are off to the O2 on Saturday, surprisingly it is showing as sold out.
For the tour itself it depends on whats on the menu. He has a well regarded back catalogue that people will be nostalgic about. His last album performed so poorly the label gave up on it - He currently has an album he's failing to get released anywhere and wingeing that 'they' are conspiring to hold him back rather than the songs being drivel - so it seems to his mind at least he can both be cancelled and sell out stadiums and Los Vegas residencies.
So which songs is he going to be singing at the O2? Are you expecting to get all the new stuff, are your tickets proof that he's right, Morrisey is still a powerful creative force and everyone else (whoever they are) is wrong? Or are you expecting the bangers from 30-40 years ago with the proustian rush tempered by having to listen to the stuff your drunk uncle shares on Facebook in between?
A lot of bands from the 80s and 90s that still tour do so on the tacit understanding that they won't play any of their new stuff - you even get 'one album' tours that really clearly state what exact nostalgia trip is on offer. Basically to tour successful bands need to be their own tribute act.
But hey, enjoy the concert!
If he turns up. Place your bets now...
I've been to a Morrissey solo gig, around the time of You are the Quarry, it was awesome, and it was already known at that point is was basically BNP. Since then he's become far more vocal in his support of UK fascists and racists. I wouldn't do anything that supported his career now, not because he's "right wing", but because he is stirring up dangerous forces in the UK while being unaffected by the consequences because his wealth allows him to live outside the country.
Oh, on "cancelling" people, he has a track record himself...
Funny how right wingers reckon they can't say what they think
What they actually do is say what they think and then end the sentence with '... but you can't say that can you'. Making it absolutely evident that they actually can.
I think the term cancelled/cancel culture is generally used by big headed people who can't cope with the general public ridiculing them or even worse ignoring them
Being cancelled means different things to different people. Banned from a social media platform, banned from all of them, debanked, blacklisted from your industry, all of the above.
Ultimately I’m not sure it matters anymore, that time seems to be coming to an end.
I saw him in concert last year, he was wittering on a bit, and not playing much of even the best parts of his solo career, but he's still got a great voice. He came across as your somewhat racist, slightly befuddled, grandad. But yeah, for a musician of his ability, not being able to release his latest album is probably pretty tough, and reflects his decreasing relevance. Which is far better than 'cancelling' him.
Being cancelled means different things to different people. Banned from a social media platform, banned from all of them, debanked, blacklisted from your industry, all of the above.
Often it just means not getting the adoration you think you are due when you take a direction and your fans don't follow you
If 'cancelling' is coming to an end it's because even the people who love to whinge about being cancelled are realising that standing on a stage or going on national television to complain you don't have platform is a bit silly.
Unfortunately realising this took years so we've all had to put up with it.
I believe Michael Jackson's monkey went to live on a farm...
The few times I've seen articles describing Morrisey's latest antics, the more I think he conforms to a view that he's a 'performative' artist.
The Smiths still occasionally pop up on my playlists, but I find I increasingly appreciate "Oscillate Wildly" more and more these days
I cancelled him a long time ago. Was my favourite band in the 80's by far and he was always different (but in a good way) so not great that I don't want to listen to him, but I don't. Still, at least Johnny Marr stayed great.
"It takes guts to be gentle and kind".
Still, at least Johnny Marr stayed great.
I've always been pretty ambivalent about the Smiths, I think a lot of their stuff is good but it just doesn't stick with me for some reason - almost like a I have a selective amnesia for their music. But I really like this live Marr session of What time is Now and it weirdly sounds like new music to me, even though its a very straight rendition of the Smiths version that I must have heard hundreds of times over the years.
Because being cancelled is just shite made up by people who
... have shitty opinions and then squeal like a toddler when called out on them.
What does "cancelled" even mean? I don't like you so I'm not going to listen to you? Well boo hoo.
What's he said/done then?
Amongst other things, repeatedly made openly racist comments and jumped to the defence of sexual abusers like Weinstein (and suggested that their victims were just disappointed).
Hadn't realised he was a racist (edit, and sexist, full house almost).
Maybe it's tough for him to realise many people liked him when he sang in a band (and the band / Johnny Marr was a huge part of it) but not many people want to listen to his dumbass opinions. The venn diagram of 'like his music' and 'like his opinions' probably has little to no overlap. Ah well, write a dreary song about that one Morrisey : )
People like Morrissey because he tells the truth without fear or favour.Cancelling people like him is a form of Fascism and must be resisted.
People like Morrissey because he tells the truth without fear or favour.
He says whatever he wants whenever he wants, true or not.
He hasn't been imprisoned or exiled or assassinated or sanctioned. He's just sold fewer records than he thinks he should have done and been invited to fewer parties.
What does being cancelled mean? I wouldn't pay to see an artist who had views I find offensive, is that me "cancelling". Same as I wouldn't buy a Tesla... Being anti cancel culture? Does that mean even though I like a few Smiths tunes I should buy a gig ticket even though I think he's a throbber?
I'll just stick to my views and get on with life I suppose
People like Morrissey because he tells the truth without fear or favour.Cancelling people like him is a form of Fascism and must be resisted.
Ah yes. Man of the people, telling it like it is, just saying what everyone else is thinking. Those sentiments have been applied to several other people Morrissey is a big fan of.
What does being cancelled mean?
Who the **** knows. It seems to be the startling realisation that "freedom of speech" also applies to everyone else and not the exclusive domain of a shoe-gazing PETA-bothering gobshite.
cancelled?, nah I don't agree with that but I do agree that he should be pelted with plastic bottles filled with warm piss when he struts out on stage - aka the Welcome to Glasgow scenario that's met him before
He's an utter **** btw, but throw his bile and rancid piss back at him, or just point and laugh at him....he's very thin skinned
This seems relevant. Dear Stephen by the Manics:
[Verse 1]
You're, you're still my bad habit
My dark little secret
My illicit unseen drug
My secret hidden love
[Chorus]
Dear Stephen, please come back to us
I believe in repentance and forgiveness
It's so easy to hate, it takes guts to be kind
To paraphrase one of your heartbreak lines
[Verse 2]
I'm still ill, I'm cursed to stay
Under your spell for all my days
I'm still a prisoner to you and Larkin
Even as your history darkens
[Chorus]
Dear Stephen, please come back to us
I believe in repentance and forgiveness
It's so easy to hate, it takes guts to be kind
To paraphrase one of your heartbreak lines
[Bridge]
I've been the boy with the thorn in his side
I want you vivid in your prime
[Outro]
Dear Stephen, please come back to us
I believe in repentance and forgiveness
It's so easy to hate, it takes guts to be kind
To paraphrase one of your heartbreak lines
Or there's the Robbie Williams lyrics... similar but excusing his words as a cry for help... offering warmth and love as a response rather than reflecting the bitterness and anger. It's an idea. It's a song. Neither quite ring true to me, but hey.
You sir are obviously a man of rarefied and exquisite taste! I also regularly partake of that wonderful combination. (Try lemon curd instead of the jam for a tasty treat).i love cheese ham and jam sandwiches (other opinions may exist ;-p
As above, art and artists. Special rules unless they're actual active paedophiles. But then, Michael Jackson, so that fails. Who knows. I know if you examine almost any pop song about love and desire closely it starts to look wrong. Artists of all types have often been assholes - see Picasso etc. We like art, we don't necessarily have to like the artists.
He's still supported commercially (unlike, say, Azealia Banks who was dropped by her booking agency and festival line ups for racism).
Banks has been "cancelled" because it's been almost 15 years since she had a hit, because she keeps insulting a core part of her audience (gay men), and because she doesn't show up to the ****ing gigs half the time! I am not denying that women and black women in particular are more harshly treated than men like Morrissey, but in her specific case it's amazing she was able to string it out for so long.
R Kelly was "cancelled" by the criminal justice system - he was sentenced to 30 years in prison.
Chris Brown is still a major musical act. 🤷♂️ Dr Luke produced Katy Perry's last, "feminist" album.
I wondered what happened to Azealia Banks. She was really good. "212" is a banger (as the kidz say)
People like Morrissey because he tells the truth without fear or favour.Cancelling people like him is a form of Fascism and must be resisted.
'he tells the truth'?
He voices his dumbass opinions by the sound of it, opinions that sound closer to fascism ("sub-species"?) than anything that happened related to him finding out that his dumbass opinions are not doing much for his popularity (along with his waning creative output perhaps).
We have freedom of speech but we don't freedom from the consequences. Someone being able to say what they liked w/o any consequences from anybody would suggest others have their right to expression removed - and that is getting towards authoritarianism.
It's very easy to label Morrissey, and those who think like him as weapons grade bell ends and racists.
I believe Michael Jackson's monkey went to live on a farm...
He’s still there (as of last year anyway), in Florida, aged 42.
'It's very easy to label Morrissey, and those who think like him as weapons grade bell ends and racists.'
To be fair he has spoken his fair amount of odious , hate filled bile. You want us just to ignore it
'He says whatever he wants whenever he wants, true or not.
He hasn't been imprisoned or exiled or assassinated or sanctioned. He's just sold fewer records than he thinks he should have done and been invited to fewer parties.'
This I think is the best description of being 'cancelled' I have read
Moz for Prime Minister!
The naughty wee monkey is throwing his shit around again ^, I used to work with capuchins that would pelt me with their shit if I didn't give them a few peanuts before entering their cage to clean it, perhaps monkeycmonkeydo just needs fed?
Morrissey does look quite like Farage
You're the one for me, bigot, you're the one I really really want 😆
He's not cancelled, he's just unpopular, that's the key difference. I can't imagine why? 😉
To be fair I still listen to some wacko-jacko sometimes, but that's mostly as a sound test as the production quality on a lot of his music is top notch, so it's a good reference that's easily available.
The phrase "cancelled" seems to mostly be used by right wing whingers. Or hack comedians like Ricky Gervais who are struggling to remain relevant and just have a load of crappy jokes. It's not like Lenny Bruce in 1964 who was actually locked up.
Yep, lol, "I've been cancelled" whine whine wine...
No, you're just a dick, and nobody likes you.
You're the one for me, bigot, you're the one I really really want 😆
He's not cancelled, he's just unpopular, that's the key difference. I can't imagine why? 😉
To be fair I still listen to some wacko-jacko sometimes, but that's mostly as a sound test as the production quality on a lot of his music is top notch, so it's a good reference that's easily available.
Oh dear, one mans poison I guess 🥴😐
You're the one for me, bigot, you're the one I really really want
Short grifters of the world, unite and take over
Shiela take a bung
Russian Ruffians
Putin knows I'm available now
I think the jobs already taken, but that said, Steven Segal Vs Morrisey is a celebrity death match I'd pay a lot of money to watch!
I think there’s a broader conversation to be had about censorship in general. For example, on old twitter people would get banned for saying women don’t have a penis. I think that’s ridiculous, however I also think the argument is quite strong that as a private company twitter can choose to ban whoever it wants.
As another example we could take the conspiracy theory that Covid escaped from a lab. At the time it was completely off limits to say this on twitter. I don’t know the truth of it but I think it’s entirely reasonable to say that there’s at least some chance that it did. The same argument about it being a private company could be made but in this instance that’s not what happened. The twitter files released by Musk showed that the US government were getting involved and telling them to censor it, Zuckerberg has since said the same thing happened with facebook. To me this is incredibly sinister and completely unacceptable, no government should be able to control discourse in this way.
I think there’s a broader conversation to be had about censorship in general. For example, on old twitter people would get banned for saying women don’t have a penis. I think that’s ridiculous, however I also think the argument is quite strong that as a private company twitter can choose to ban whoever it wants.
As another example we could take the conspiracy theory that Covid escaped from a lab. At the time it was completely off limits to say this on twitter. I don’t know the truth of it but I think it’s entirely reasonable to say that there’s at least some chance that it did. The same argument about it being a private company could be made but in this instance that’s not what happened. The twitter files released by Musk showed that the US government were getting involved and telling them to censor it, Zuckerberg has since said the same thing happened with facebook. To me this is incredibly sinister and completely unacceptable, no government should be able to control discourse in this way.
I see bonafide hate speech on face-ache and other social meeja all the time... almost exclusivley from uneducated, flag waving tommy robinson types. If I report it, I just get a standard 'doesn't breach guidelines, we won't remove it' reply.
But If I say I'll kill them for threatening to kill me and people like me, all of a sudden, I'm apparently the bad guy.
I think that's what's known as gas-lighting?
Freedom of speech for thee, but not for me?
It's all such a load of bollocks.
The twitter files released by Musk showed that the US government were getting involved and telling them to censor it, Zuckerberg has since said the same thing happened with facebook. To me this is incredibly sinister and completely unacceptable, no government should be able to control discourse in this way.
That's not exactly what happened. The Biden Administration was badgering Meta to moderate (which, absolutely, in this case meant delete) content under its own policies that was untrue AND harming COVID efforts. Zuckerberg caved because he doesn't actually care about media freedom (as a tech bro) and because he wanted to stay in with the government.
Now that the tables have turned and Zuckerberg wants to stay in with the Trump administration, he is doing a reverse ferret to make Biden look bad and make himself out to be a victim. (Side note: which US president has interfered more in media freedom - Biden or Trump? Every accusation is an admission).
The core problem here is not that the US president has sought to control media discourse - it's that so much of the media is now owned by people who don't give a shit about media freedom, won't band together to protect their own interests, and don't see any reason why their media assets shouldn't just be a mechanism for sucking up to today's President.
A lot of bands from the 80s and 90s that still tour do so on the tacit understanding that they won't play any of their new stuff - you even get 'one album' tours that really clearly state what exact nostalgia trip is on offer. Basically to tour successful bands need to be their own tribute act.
Depends very much on how much ongoing success bands from back then had/have. There are a number of bands who broke up back then, but reformed once the internal issues were resolved and carried on touring and recording, others from the very early 2000’s have been continually recording and touring, the ‘One Album’ tours often feature one particular album, then play a bunch of stuff from right across their catalogue.
Of course, some bands have had so many personnel changes that they’re little more than a tribute act, with only a tenuous connection to the original, like Thin Lizzy, or The Stranglers.
But Iron Maiden is forever.
But Iron Maiden is forever.
Oh yes 🤘
Many music genres come and go but Maiden fans are for life. And what a great bunch of people they are.
Ooh, monthters
Hurrah for Bubbles what a life he's led and stories he could tell if Dr Doolittle was here.
Compared to Morrissey I should have thought Iron Maiden are a load of rubbish.
Being in Iron Maiden must be brilliant. Honestly one of the greatest lives you can imagine.
Perennially successful, completely insulated from critical acclaim/fashion/most of modern life, spending your life with your mates, doing what you love doing over and over, knowing there'll always be a large audience somewhere in the world that will readily sustain it. Hats off.
Morrissey - I have nothing of substance to add. I will always love SPM deeply, however I just find him troubling now. What could have been. But he doesn't owe me anything.
Compared to Morrissey I should have thought Iron Maiden are a load of rubbish.
Well, there's a lot to unpick here.
As another example we could take the conspiracy theory that Covid escaped from a lab. At the time it was completely off limits to say this on twitter. I don’t know the truth of it but I think it’s entirely reasonable to say that there’s at least some chance that it did.
Well now. Perhaps
At the time it was completely off limits to say this on twitter.
because
we could take the conspiracy theory that Covid escaped from a lab... I don’t know the truth of it but I think it’s entirely reasonable to say that there’s at least some chance that it did.
Assuming for the sake of argument that claiming it was off-limits is true - and I don't remember whether it was or not - then this wouldn't be censorship so much as dissuading quarterwit conspiracy theorists from spreading dangerous lies (with a side order of racism) in the middle of a global pandemic.
Being in Iron Maiden must be brilliant. Honestly one of the greatest lives you can imagine.
Perennially successful, completely insulated from critical acclaim/fashion/most of modern life, spending your life with your mates, doing what you love doing over and over, knowing there'll always be a large audience somewhere in the world that will readily sustain it. Hats off.
apart from the fact that bruce is a bit of a Brexit ****
Being in Iron Maiden must be brilliant. Honestly one of the greatest lives you can imagine.
Perennially successful, completely insulated from critical acclaim/fashion/most of modern life, spending your life with your mates, doing what you love doing over and over, knowing there'll always be a large audience somewhere in the world that will readily sustain it. Hats off.
I suppose the only downside is having to hear Iron Maiden every day.
Perennially successful, completely insulated from critical acclaim/fashion/most of modern life, spending your life with your mates, doing what you love doing over and over
Unlike the fans, I'm not sure groupies still go for the old hasbeens
Being in Iron Maiden must be brilliant. Honestly one of the greatest lives you can imagine.
Perennially successful, completely insulated from critical acclaim/fashion/most of modern life, spending your life with your mates, doing what you love doing over and over, knowing there'll always be a large audience somewhere in the world that will readily sustain it. Hats off.
This. Some of the happiest guys in the music biz probably, alongside the GLC.
The core problem here is not that the US president has sought to control media discourse - it's that so much of the media is now owned by people who don't give a shit about media freedom
Possibly needs a separate thread. There are two bits to this.
The media being owned by people who dont give a shit about "press freedom" is a time honoured tradition. There are a long line of owners whose interest in the press is about their influence on people in power and so will happily bend a knee in response for their other interests being favoured.
For the tech companies it is fascinating how fast they bend eg people praise Apple for standing up to the UK and US governments but ignore how they bend the knee to the Chinese.
It seems to mostly be based on a mix of market share/profitability and a calculation of how much influence the public has as to whether standing up for the public is done or not.
As long as the people actually have some influence/power then the tech giants will valiantly stand up for us. However if it tilts against us eg when we will need the protection the most its "good luck god speed".