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who's video games ?
Could be anyone.
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What?
ernie_lynch - Member
I believe that unless there is a specific reason not to disable people should be treated just like everyone else. So for that reason it is right imo that there should be reserved spaces for disabled people in council car parks, but I see no reason why they shouldn't pay like everyone else.
Unfortunately, disabled people tend to have less access to other alternative forms of transport, sometimes it's car or nothing.
And in answer to the OP, yes, disabled people tend overall to be much poorer than the general population.
much poorer than the general population.
I'm unconvinced that blue badge holders are on average "much poorer" than the general population, if this is true it's a disgrace.
Certainly many blue badge holders are considerably better off than those millions of able-bodied people who rely on benefits to make ends meet.
I'm unconvinced that blue badge holders are on average "much poorer" than the general population, if this is true it's a disgrace.
Of course it is true. There are less opportunities for disabled people, less access to jobs, inability to do a lot of jobs etc,. Not sure why that would be a surprise?
It's a surprise to me because everyone who I have known who has had a blue badge which entitled them to free parking in council car parks hasn't been "much poorer" than the general population. Obviously I'm sure some blue badge holders are.
Latest info I have to hand is 2014 Ernie, but lots of facts and figures on the subject here:
Disabled people are [i]twice as likely[/i] to be on a low income. I did link to the stats on page one, but as some of you once saw a rich guy in a wheelchair, then yes, they're all ripping us off.
We are nowhere near treating disabled people "like everybody else". Other than parking, give me one other example of an advantage disabled people have in our society.
I'll take that as a no, you don't have any proof that Conservative councils charge disabled drivers whilst non-Conservative councils don't.
Whooooosh.
I think you'll find that the penalisation of the disabled [b]generally[/b] is very much conservative policy.
Rusty Spanner - MemberLatest info I have to hand is 2014 Ernie, but lots of facts and figures here:
Only glanced at the first few pages but :
[i]19% of households that include a disabled person live in relative income poverty (below 60% of median income), compared to 14% of households without a disabled person.[/i]
There's clearly a difference but I'm not sure I would describe it as "much more".
We are nowhere near treating disabled people "like everybody else". Other than parking, give me one other example of an advantage disabled people have in our society.
I'm fairly sure that free parking isn't the only advantage that disabled people have in our society.
If you want [i]"one other example"[/i] free bus travel for wheelchair users.
I don't have a huge issue with disabled people having free parking. I have a bit of an issue with the automatic assumption that they must be poor. Or that the solution in cases of poverty is to provide free parking in areas where everyone else pays.
metalheart - Member
I'll take that as a no, you don't have any proof that Conservative councils charge disabled drivers whilst non-Conservative councils don't.Whooooosh.
I think you'll find that the penalisation of the disabled generally is very much conservative policy.
But not the policy of whether disabled drivers should pay in council car parks, that bit you made up.
Nope Ernie, it's what [i]you're[/i] making up. Here's what I wrote:
But, yeah, let's penalise the disabled, it's the conservative way after all, not [i]deserving[/i] enough I guess
Please tell where I said what you say I said (about local councils).
I'm unconvinced that blue badge holders are on average "much poorer" than the general population, if this is true it's a disgrace.Certainly many blue badge holders are considerably better off than those millions of able-bodied people who rely on benefits to make ends meet.
See my comments a few posts up Ernie. That's a whole load of costs few able-bodied people have to meet.
Please tell where I said what you say I said (about local councils).
Here's your entire unedited post :
metalheart - Member
Wasnt the OP focusing on the payment aspect?Yeah, and it came across as 'why should someone get something for nothing and I can't?'
For starters, if you're disabled then it might not be possible to rock up to a central point and go all the places you need to go on foot, you might have to make multiple stops thus incurring multiple parking payments.... But, yeah, let's penalise the disabled, it's the conservative way after all, not deserving enough I guess.
It seemed to me that you were claiming that anyone who thought disabled people should pay was wanting to "penalise the disabled" because "it's the conservative way after all".
So I asked you to prove that conservative councils force disabled people to pay whilst non-conservative councils didn't.
You're now telling me you didn't mean that. Fair enough - you could have told me that straight away though.
You're now telling me you didn't mean that. Fair enough - you could have told me that straight away though.
I can see where you went wrong, but if I was claiming what you thought I was claiming then, maybe I would actually have said that. But I was generalising...
I didn't realise you were going to make such a big thing out of it, hence my earlier 'explanation'.
But, we're all good now, yeah?
I didn't realise you were going to make such a big thing out of it, hence my earlier 'explanation'.
You must be new to Ernie's oeuvre.
His mistake was to reply to Ernie.
Jamie - Member
You must be new to Ernie's oeuvre.
Drac - Moderator
His mistake was to reply to Ernie.
So, he has previous then? Right. [Makes note for the future.....]
Yes, but in this case he made a valid point
[The problem with inaccurate generalisations - people can pick you up on them. ]
Yes, but in this case he made a valid point
Yeah, to something he made up though....
As the husband of a blue badge holder, I have no problem with badge holders having to pay (and neither does MrsMC). The badge enables you to park nearer things, it isn't a free parking pass at all.
We've had the anomaly of getting free parking when we have been to trail centres, even though MrsMC can manage a blue route.
It is very handy when we are out to get the last (disabled) parking spot in the car park. Especially in the run up to Christmas!
Why can electric cars park for free at charge points?
They can't, they get charged.
The point that disabled drivers would rather not be is irrelevant to this thread. Obvious I would think. I fail to see why its free in many cases for blue badge holders. No good reason that I can see. As for parking on yellows. Now that is wrong. If they are there for a reason it doesn't go if some one less abled parks there. In many cases it increases the danger as these people, sadly, don't usually move as fast as the able bodied and are both in danger and possibly to others. I agree with allocated parking etc in convieient places but life is a bitch and just occasionally we can't have what we want born need and some of us are dealtvshitier hands than others.
Drac - ModeratorHis mistake was to reply to Ernie.
Yeah 'cause I really like pointless arguments.
That's why I can't keep away from the Jeremy Corbyn and EU Referendum threads.
You are remarkably astute Drac.
It's not always the driver that needs the badge....
I'm sure it's not but are you disputing that there is any abuse? I used to live on a busy road in central Brixton with a view of the street. I saw a lot of dangerous, inconsiderate parking using blue badges and I'm pretty sure that whoever the blue badge was for was not in the car when it was done.
IMV the basic principle (for any sort of parking) should be parking ONLY in marked bays. Anywhere else not allowed. Would massively reduce the need for road markings and make the streets a lot clearer and easier (in cities at least). Perfectly fine with blue badge holders parking for free in those spaces or there being an allocation of disabled only spaces but disabled or not someone with a car should not be allowed to make the road less safe for other road users which is what regularly happens at the moment.
A blue badge does not give you the right to park irresponsibility or dangerously. Most allocating authorities no longer allow parking on double yellows, largely due to some of the issues you have raised above.
There are definitely the exceptions to the rules. For example I had an uncle on sickness benefit for most of his later adult life and used to get a new car off the government every few years. Strange how almost nightly he was able to walk the half a mile each way to the pub with no issue!
The really annoying thing about disabled parking is how disproportionate it is. At my local supermarket there are dozens of disabled bays that usually only have a few cars in. However the parent and child parking has hardly any and are always full.
At my local supermarket there are dozens of disabled bays that usually only have a few cars in.
Have you been in when all the old people have drawn out their pensions?
Carnage.
I'm sure it's not but are you disputing that there is any abuse?
Of course there is abuse (as with any system).
However if someone had seen me rock up at the hospital and park to pick up my folks (who had arrived by ambulance and stayed in acute wards) would go 'look at that fat ****, [i]he[/i] doesn't need a badge....'
This whole topic has come up because hospitals have started charging blue badge holders to park. Hospital parking charges are a disgrace, period.
This whole topic has come up because hospitals have started charging blue badge holders to park. Hospital parking charges are a disgrace, period.
yep. the sicker you are the more you (or your relatives pay).
My dad has a blue badge, btw, and struggles to walk 10 yds.
Klunk - struggling to read which way your post goes. Are you saying the sicker should pay more as they use more services, or are you unhappy with that principle?
disgrace, period.
yep.
This whole topic has come up because hospitals have started charging blue badge holders to park. Hospital parking charges are a disgrace, period.
There's one hospital, in London, I believe, that has a camera at the entrance so anyone driving in is charged from that point, regardless of whether they manage to find a space or not. That is downright immoral, but it's administered by Parking Eye, so not surprising.
I'm intrigued by the sort of cars Motability clients get, having watched an auction of ex-Motability vehicles; the BMW saloons I can sort of understand, but the Mazda MX-5, and Focus ST seemed a little...[i]odd[/i], somehow.
I honestly don't know what the criteria are that gets you one, despite Motability being one of the charity clients where I last worked, and driving a large number of return cars in my current job.
Some of which are in a shocking condition, I might add.
Sorry - this place makes you see devils in the shadows!
CZ, Motability gets you a basic vehicle, suitable for your needs.
If you want a posher car or certain adaptations you have to pay for the upgrade.
freeagent - Member - Quotehis wife/kids are pretty fit.
Fancying his wife is one thing...
My dad has a blue badge, btw, and struggles to walk 10 yds.
I'm guessing this is part of the reason blue badge holders shouldn't be expected to pay? So they can avoid moving between the car and pay machine and back again, which may be difficult for them. It's just about making life easier for people. Why someone would begrudge that is beyond me.
Hospital parking- would you rather hospitals spent money on free parking or making people better? Parking spaces aren't free to build or maintain.
What about those who don't own a car and arrive at hospital by bus or taxi (that they have to pay for). Effectively they're subsidising those who drive there.
https://twitter.com/paulgannonbike/status/814027907769257984
https://twitter.com/rantyhighwayman/status/814062364962197505
Yes, there is a problem with the standard of public transport in many towns, and moving many hospitals from their old town centre sites to new build greenfield without good public transport links. However, there is little excuse to drive to a hospital in London. (Again, before anyone dives in and says it's obviously a necessity for X or Y, how do the majority of London households without access to a car manage?).
tricky this.. my parents well off drive a merc and have a 4x4 mum qualifies for a badge as she cant walk much more than half a mile.. get free parking at hospital. my mate on benifits uses walking sticks has to pay the 20 quid taxi/train fares to get to the hospital..
absolutely no doubt that once there who gets the best treatment.. one gets passed around from hospital to hospital the other goes in ..one stop shop.. she calls it and gets sorted..money talks even when the service is free..
What about those who don't own a car and arrive at hospital by bus or taxi (that they have to pay for). Effectively they're subsidising those who drive there.
Given car owners pay for their cars, fuel and insurance all of which are taxed, taxes which help pay subsidise public transport I'd say you're talking utter bollocks.
Free motorbike parking at my local hospital!
taxes which help pay subsidise public transport I'd say you're talking utter bollocks.
Taxes that fail to cover the direct costs of motoring before you start on the negative health externalities for pollution.