[Closed] Why buy a MacBook (or Mac for that matter?)

Bought a macbook a few weeks ago and generally I'm pretty happy. Contrary to what "some bloke" thinks, I'm someone who loves computers and uses them both for the banal (STW) and geeky (software development) and so far the mac has been spot on. I've got Windows installed for the stuff I NEED internet explorer for (i.e. my work's HR system and some other tools) but I use that at most for an hour every few days. Conversely, Windows7 is about as stable as MacOS and does the job well.

So yeah, get one because they "just work" but Windows 7 does too so honestly, its about what you want to do these days more than just stability or photoshop etc.

on the other hand....

My mrs got a MBP because the other two people in her company (technical designers, she's the FD) use theirs for Autocad, videos etc and she tor some daft reason thought it would be better for them to be all on the same platform.

At the time I said it would be a big mistake and she would find it difficult to do her work on the MB and so it turned out. The MBP is now sitting on the side and she has gone back to her perfectly good Dell laptop. Currently running Vista happily although I might treat her to a copy of W7 some day.

A combination of the windows emulator being stubborn around running sage and the way the the spreadsheet program knackers excel documents just made it a waste of time for the business side of PC use.

Now there's going to be those that say its fine for that function but it blatantly wasnt for her. PCs are a personal thing and functionally they still differ enough IMO to make the right choice important and to be fooled by the "Macs are business machines too" adlines.

The only thing Ill say for the mac is that it was easy to set up as a share on my W7 server because they all talk samba. I was worried it would be a nightmare to do. Oh and printer drivers were difficult to get for one printer and impossible for the other.

I'd say anyone who thinks PCs are [i]that[/i] personal needs to get out a bit more. 😛

I've been a life-long Windows user but have to say Apple have started getting things right in the last year or two. They used to fall down on price or functionality but don't really have that issue now. I've still yet to be convinced by Linux though, admittedly not tried it at home but it's a pain in the tits when using it on servers IME.

Preferably in some extremely comfortable conservative shoes.

The last time I used a Mac it looked like this...

[img] [/img]

I'm guessing they've moved on a bit. Are they still a walled garden? Ok, you can install Windows, but is the driver support there?

Can i just add a point in the direction of the pro linux crowd.

The reason I use a mac is I have a full posix environment, built in GCC etc. an Xserver etc. and yet it "just works" when I need it to. It's all the best bits of *nix with a nice skin on top. This is why a lot of very geeky folk have been moving to OSX, you can have your cake and eat it.

So to answer the OP - cos I want a machine that just works, and yet sometimes you really just need to whip out a terminal. Anyone suggesting the windows command prompt is any good gets a slap.

My professional life revolves around Microsoft stuff, so I like having a home computing environment that's different. The fact it's nicely geared up for straightforward dealing with music, photos and video (90% of what I use my home computers for) is great. I have a windows VM just in case I need it, but have fewer and fewer reasons to fire it up. I have games consoles for gaming, I stepped off the PC gaming upgrade treadmill 5+ years ago.

I like the hardware too, and am of the belief that total cost of ownership compares well with the bog-standard Dells that people compare them with. I get a new machine every 3 years or so, I tend to buy new ones tax-free at the airport then sell the old one on ebay for about 40-50% of what I paid.

Plus given I live in London, if something does go wrong, I can book an appointment at any time into late evening and drop the machine off at a store to pick up later rather than spending an age on the phone then waiting for a courier.

Not saying they're ideal for everyone, but I'm happy with mine. If you have to ask a forum of internetards to sell you the benefits, you'll probably end up whinging about it 6 months down the line so you'd be best off buying a Dell instead.

loddrick, YGM

I bought one about six months ago.

I wanted the best tool I could afford to play around with my photos.

The first time I used it I used it Photoshop to convert over 300 RAW images to JPEG. I was expecting it to be a hassle, I was expecting to have to restart the machin several times, I was expecting to have to split said 300 photos into 'batches'.

But as it was 'my first time' I decided to be mean...and asked it to do all 300 as a oner.

A few minutes later the job was done. ITunes was playing the whole time too. I don't know if a similar vintage PC would do such a thing, but I was impressed and I certainly don't regret buying my Mac.

Don't know if this adds anything but it's just my experience.

A few minutes later the job was done. ITunes was playing the whole time too. I don't know if a similar vintage PC would do such a thing, but I was impressed and I certainly don't regret buying my Mac.

Any newish PC with a similar spec should be able to do that, too.

OP: If you fancy a Mac, get one. I wouldn't expect it to be any better than a similarly priced Windows7 machine though.

What some people seem to be forgetting, is that a Mac is a hardware and software package, whereas Windoze and Linux are simply OS's. I can run OSX, Windoze XP and 7 and Linux on my Mac, if I so choose. Someone like Stoner's missus could easily run Sage or whatever on their Mac.

Seeing as OSX is by far the best OS, I'll stick with that. I'm not a software engineer or whatever, so I can't be arsed spending years learning stuff just to make things work.

Apple have looked at the way [i]most[/i] people actually use computers, and designed stuff that is actually pleasant to use, and does what people want it to. Most people who use computers aren't spoddy geeks these days. They're just normal Human Beings. Who want to get on with their lives without fiddling about with flippin Windoze drivers and network settings and all that crap.

But hey, if you like defragging and updating yer registry and running antivrus and that, feel free. The Mac users will be out enjoying themselves. 🙂

OP: If you fancy a Mac, get one. I wouldn't expect it to be any better than a similarly priced Windows7 machine though.

Good idea, then you will be pleasantly surprised to find out that it is miles better. 😛

I have never paid for a computer and I just use what I'm given. One year ago, I was given a Mac and told "See how you get on with that".

For the first month, I thought it was a PITA.
Then I settled into it and thought no more of it - Looks nice, but nothing special.

Until I recently tried using a friend's PC. I found it HORRIBLY un-intuitive and clunky. And then it needed patches, installs, BSOD and a re-boot or two before it would do what I was supposed to be helping him with.

And I'd forgotten about viruses, de-frags, searching for files etc.

I would NEVER go back to a PC.
Tho gawd knows how I would afford my own Mac if I had to pay for one. They're not exactly cheap, are they?

To be fair, I hate the Mac mouse.
Functionally crap and ergonomically wrong.

I bought a new wireless mouse yesterday, Microsoft branded.
To use on my Mac. And supposedly Mac compatible...

I had to install 11.5Mb (FFS!) of drivers off the setup CD.
And it didn't work on the Mac.
During setup, it had checked (and failed to find) updated drivers on the MS site.

Took me 1.5 hours to:
Realise that the software had no Mac support for customizing buttons (meaning to make it USABLE, rather than middle-click randomly closing stuff);
Locate the ACTUAL current drivers online;
FIND and uninstall the outdated drivers on my hard-drive (it would only let me specify the HDD, not WHERE on the drive they were installed);
Reboot (Hahaha - remember when you had to do that?);
Re-install the new drivers;
Reboot AGAIN (getting boring now - I never usually reboot Mac for months at a time);
Set up my button preferences and get it all working.

All for a mouse.

Do I miss Microsoft?
Not on your life!

You can't polish a turd.

Until I recently tried using a friend's PC

Windows 7?

And all computers need de-fragging btw. Once a year maybe!

Apple have looked at the way most people actually use computers, and designed stuff that is actually pleasant to use, and does what people want it to. Most people who use computers aren't spoddy geeks these days. They're just normal Human Beings. Who want to get on with their lives without fiddling about with flippin Windoze drivers and network settings and all that crap

Seriously, so have MS. W7 is WAY better than any of the previous efforts. On XP the user friendly dialogs and stuff were just a token covering up all the grimy details you had to know. On W7 (and vista tbh) it's properly done. They've completely re-thought how common stuff like networking is set up.

And what's the issue with anti-virus? Install MSE, forget about it.

Install this...
install that...
check this...
learn how to de-frag that...

No, thanks.
I'd rather stuff worked first time so I can go and do something interesting with my life.

My main point is:
I'm not interested in how great Windows 7 is.

I struggled with MS crap for years.
They have now lost me as a customer. Forever.

And my work-related stress level is much lower, due to zero crashes and lost work in the whole of the last year.

So MS might be able to do the same now, with Windows 7?
Well good for you MS users.
But so what? It's a shame we all had to put up with such shoddy OS before.

Install this...
install that...
check this...
learn how to de-frag that..

Wtf you on about?

Defragging is somethign that all computers need, but very infrequently!

I'm not interested in how great Windows 7 is.

I struggled with MS crap for years.
They have now lost me as a customer. Forever.

And my work-related stress level is much lower, due to zero crashes and lost work in the whole of the last year

You div. You hate something because of what it WAS, regardless of how good it is NOW. Marvellous reasoning. Ever use a Mac from the old days? When they used to crash all the time because they didn't have protected memory space, and virtual memory was so bad you had to switch it off?

due to zero crashes and lost work in the whole of the last year.

Same here.

MS have spent a great deal of time and effort in making their stuff better, and with success. Gets my vote.

Because, when I'm lounging about at Starbucks in my skinny Levi's, New Balance trainers and two-tone American Apparel zip-up hoody, flicking through the latest issue of Wire and pretending to be a vegetarian in a doomed effort to pick up an art student, it really blows the whole deal when I pull out a Dell.

Ive got a mac & the amount of time I have to spend nursing it compared to the pc is negligible.

Apple have looked at the way most people actually use computers, and designed stuff that is actually pleasant to use, and does what people want it to. Most people who use computers aren't spoddy geeks these days. They're just normal Human Beings. Who want to get on with their lives without fiddling about with flippin Windoze drivers and network settings and all that crap.

Couldnt have put it better.

I'm not going to get drawn into a "my computer is better than yours" pissing contest, but I'd like to make a couple of observations.

1) If you can't promote your chosen platform without slagging off the competition, you lose. Sorry. Eg, I have a Toshiba TV, it's ace, but if anyone asks me why I can probably field that without needing to resort to "because Panasonic are crap, zomg."

2) It strikes me that a lot of people (on both sides of the 'debate') haven't used what they're criticising in many, many years. This is fine of course, if you're happy with Linux / Windows / OSX then why would you change, but it really should mean that you're commenting from a point of ignorance.

3) If you insist on continually slipping the side-splittingly hilarious "Windoze," "Micro$$oft," or "Internet Exploder" constructs into conversation, you waive any right you may have had for your point to be taken seriously.

And a special 4) to Looptail, who spent an hour and a half trying to get a Microsoft mouse working on a Mac, failed, and blamed Microsoft. I have your petard here somewhere, hold on.

Good post Cougar.

Also love all the comments regarding Windows stability, dunno what you guys are doing, but I've not had an unstable Windows PC for years; in fact I struggle to remember the last BSOD.

Quick there is a Macbook on the Classifieds

+1 for Cougar. I'm not slagging off Macs, I've not used one since 1995. I just object to fanboi-ism, and I also object to such fanbois going on and on about how terrible PCs are when it's not necessarily the case.

Pros and cons to both platforms.

I think what I object to is this blinkered idea that one size fits all, rather than choosing the right tool for the job. It's the same in the mobile phone threads.

Someone asks for advice and the zealots are trampling each other underfoot in their haste to go "you need what I've got!" without any consideration for the needs or requirements of the person asking the question. If you don't stop and ask questions, find out what is being asked of you before making a recommendation, then your wonderful beloved technology isn't going to be able to compensate for the fact that you're an idiot.

I like Macs. I like Windows, and Linux. I like Android, and iPhones, and Symbian. In those areas I have personal preferences, but I wouldn't be so arrogant as to think that what's right for me is right for the rest of the world. That's what 'personal' means. If it was, we'd all be using it and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

😆 @ cougar

(That said, you should all buy an Xbox 😀 )

I've a PC at home, it does everything I want: stores pictures, runs itunes (as well as doing other things at the same time) it's never broken down nor do I have to do anything to it, it's never had a virus, never not done anything I didn't want it to do.

It just works, you know?

I couldn't give a fig about Mac vs PC.

Back to the OP...

I have been a Mac user since 1991 and use them every day for work.

I wanted a machine for home for web browsing and for storing pictures & music on as I was sick of carting my work PC laptop home or having to take back borrowed Mac towers when we have freelancers in.

I couldn't justify the cost of a Mac so got a PC and it's alright - it does everything I need (and expected) it to.

So, in my opinion, £300 on a cheapo laptop to be used for browsing etc would be a better bet than a £300 second-hand Mac (warranty + knowing what you will get issues) or £700+ on a new Mac.

Macs are alright for the single user desktop, but not in a corp environment. Windows + Linux rule the roost there.

@ molgrips... not every file system needs defragging...

I couldn't give a fig about Mac vs PC.

So why post on a thread that is all about Mac V PC?? 🙄

Macs are alright for the single user desktop, but not in a corp environment. Windows + Linux rule the roost there.

Oh... does the Mac one need it?

And all computers need de-fragging btw.

Errr, no.

Anyway, all the best* TV programmes use Macs so they must be betterer

House - for the MRI scanner screen (yeah right)

CSI S****horpe et al - everywhere (all going 'bing', 'bong' and 'beep')

Spooks - used extensively for surveillance (theirs go 'zip', 'zoom' and 'zapp')

*Probably not the best, but I have yet to see a baboon using any kind of computer hardware in a natural history programme.

Computers in films are always Macs because Apple are really big on paying studios for product placement.

[i]So why post on a thread that is all about Mac V PC??[/i]

you really have to ask? 😆

molgrips... not every file system needs defragging...

If by "need defragging" you mean "suffers from fragmentation," I challenge you to name one that's in widespread modern usage.

FAT - ostensibly introduced fragmentation to the masses.
NTFS - initially claimed not to need defragging by MS when it was introduced, they later said 'oops' and backpedalled. Has real-time optimisation to keep fragmentation down but still gets fragmented.
HFS+ - like NTFS, attempts to keep fragmentation to a minimum on the fly but can still get fragmented.
ext2 - needs defragging.
ext3 - can't be defragged natively (well, without converting back to ext2) but still fragments over time.
ext4 - recognises issues with ext3, proposes to re-introduce defrag.

"Can't be defragged" isn't the same as "doesn't need defragging." However, if when you say "need" you're arguing that fragmentation isn't a massive performance issue on a modern machine except in certain very specific circumstances, be that on Windows, Linux or OSX, I'd agree with you. It's largely a non-issue.

If as I suspect it's merely a badly researched attempt at willy-waving that "the Mac doesn't need defragging and PCs do," modern Windows OSes run a weekly scheduled defrag task on a very low system priority in order to keep fragmentation to a minimum. Most people aren't even aware of this and it can of course be disabled. The Mac, however, doesn't do this; not because it's not required but because it's not possible.

To defrag a Mac requires third party tools (not free) and requires exclusive access to the volume whist it runs - so you can't use your computer. It's also inherently risky, something Microsoft managed to fix back in the 90's.

This is fun, anyone else want to make any wildly inaccurate claims to the supremacy of their platform or have I made my point? (-: Hey I know, shall we do viruses next?

modern Windows OSes run a weekly scheduled defrag task on a very low system priority in order to keep fragmentation to a minimum

Ah, I didn't know this. That could explain why when I checked my system after a year of daily use it was only 1% fragmented...

Came in with Vista IIRC - W7 does it certainly. Scheduled for the small hours of weds night (thurs morning I suppose) and will defer if the PC's off at that time.

I don't [i]think [/i]XP does it by default, couldn't be 100% sure without checking though.

(NTFS and HFS by their nature are less susceptible to fragmentation; both have algorithms to avoid it.)

Cougar; do what mate?

S'ok; I don't actually want to know what any of that means. I don't need to; I have a Mac. 🙂

I never found myself going - I can do this on my pc, why can't I do that on my mac.

I can't curve text in Pages . grrrrrrrr

I don't actually want to know what any of that means. I don't need to; I have a Mac.

I couldn't have put it better myself.

They look nice and are probably the most well-built laptops in terms of the metal casing etc.

I'm sort of reluctantly coming round to the idea of a mac as it makes sense for my hobbies/work - Final Cut Pro and Logic are really good bits of software. Logic especially, probably the most flexible DAW and loads of good plugins. Apple stuff is still overpriced though.

I've been thinking about upgrading my HP laptop (running windows 7) and have considered both PC and Mac to replace it. I'm not a fan boy of either so consider myself to be fairly neutral on the matter. This is my take on it...

Windows 7 is good, far far better than any other MS OS I've used (although having said that I had my first BSOD the other day, I think it was something to do with an adobe flash update?). Anyway, the OSX is supposed to be really good too so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt (not used it extensively) and say its a bit better than windows 7. Now, price has been discussed at length here with some saying Macs are over priced and other claiming they are good value for money.

Here is the direct comparison I have been making with Sony Vaio laptops (I consider the Vaio to be quality PC laptop and because of this, it is more pricey than an equivalent HP for example):

17" macbook pro
Intel Core i5 2.53Ghz
4GB memory 1066MHz DDR3
500GB 7200rpm
Standard DVD drive
NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M with 512 MB

Sony Vaio F Series 16.4"
Intel Core i5 2.53Ghz
4GB memory 1066MHz DDR3
500GB 7200rpm
Standard DVD drive
NVIDIA GeForce GT 425M with 1GB

As you see, very similar specs although the Sony has a superior graphics card. Now, the price for the Mac is £1930 whilst the Vaio is £908.99. That price difference is outrageous. Yes the mac looks nicer and is more robust, probably has a longer lasting battery (although it'll cost you a small fortune to change it when it does give up) and has a slightly better OS, but is that really worth a 112% price difference?!! I don't think so. The Vaio can even have a bluray drive for a little more and numerous other better value upgrades.

To me the MacBooks are just way over priced. For a similar price I could get a very high end Vaio with more (and faster clock speed) RAM, i7 processor, massive fast hard drive, far far superior graphics etc etc and still have a spare few hundred quid. Even if OSX is as good as all the fan boys say it is, it won't be good enough to even match, let alone outperform that kind of spec.

To the OP, if you have £300 to spend, I think you are better off getting a new windows laptop because you won't get much mac for that.

My windows 7 installation doesn't need to be defragged at all. Ever.

But it is on an SSD so I suppose that's cheating a bit!