[Closed] Why are so many schools shut?

Teachers want to go sledging.

Mods - wrong forum - can you move you chat please? A button to let posters do so would be cool too 🙂

Because all teachers are really, really crap drivers

Our kids' primary school only tends to close if there's a risk the teachers can't get home. I suppose in this day and age a lot of staff aren't within walking distance as they may have been in the "old days". Also - let's face it - most people simply aren't prepared to drive in snow any more and that has a knock on effect.

Modern life.

When I was a kid there were still lots of village schools and most teachers lived local (a bit like coppers etc). So few had to drive/travel.

Plus parents would complain/sue if teachers weren't there to look after their kids.

While half of me is unhappy, I can see it from the Head Teachers' viewpoint - a decision made early solves loads of hassle later.

Lazy people using the snow as an excuse is my guess.

Tune into R5 - debate in full flow - hilarious.
You need to listen to the Lancastrian bloke who was on earlier - fantastic.

Teachers often live a fair way from schools nowadays. So it has to be safe enough for them to drive in.

In the old days, most teachers used to walk to school, so there'd usually be enough teachers to look after the kids who managed to get in. Nowadays if there aren't enough teachers to look after the kids, they can't run the school.

Not exactly sure why teachers live further away, but then I guess people in general live further from their jobs, so unless we all work a short walk from home it is hard to moan about teachers driving to work. It's also probable that teachers move around jobs more than they used to, and it isn't always possible to move home every time you change jobs.

Also, I remember when I was a kid, they used to wait and see, and send us home at lunchtime if it looked bad, because most parents worked pretty locally (or one parent didn't work). Nowadays, parents are also much more likely to work a long way away, sending kids home at lunchtime is harder if many of the parents are in a city an hours drive away (potentially a few hours drive if there is bad snow). So if there is a forecast of bad snow, it is probably more practical to make a decision the evening before or early in the morning and cancel a full day.

Im here.. well in body..

Extra holidays for teachers, they don't get much.

My son is network/IT manager at a school in south wales. They opened up on friday because of examinations and volunteers were sought to keep the place open for the exams. Seven Admin employees turned up including my son and one teacher turned up very late. All the affected students made it in including several who walked in six or seven miles. Exams went ok, no thanks to the teachers.

[i]Lazy people using the snow as an excuse is my guess. [/i]

My wife is the deputy head at a Special Needs school.

Children at the school come from a wide area and a number are in wheelchairs. Most make use of a minibus service.

To avoid the problem of children either becoming stuck in buses that cannot get either to the school or back to their houses or becoming 'trapped' at the school by deterioration of the weather during the day they closed the school today and last Friday.

but you're right, she's just being lazy, I'll go downstairs and have a word if you like?

Both of my children are at their (different) schools which are open today but serve the needs of children who could pretty much all walk to and from school. Lazy teachers not wanting to pay to heat their houses during the day to blame their I expect.

Not exactly sure why teachers live further away

probably so they don't get knifed while walking home

'elf and safety innit.

who cares, kids needs to play more, people tend to go nuts when schools shut for a few days as if a whole generation will turn out to be numpties because of it.

kids need to be outdoors more having unstructured play aiding life skill development.....

Seems to depend on the school.

Mine (c.a. 1200 pupils, suburb/rural catchment, I live out in the sticks 12 miles away) never closed, I remember having to go in in the back of the landrover (not a fancy school run mum one, the local farmers pick up).

The next one in (similar size, town/city center catchemnt) was always closed as it was spread over two 'sites' linked by a path. As thy couldn't gaurentee the path to be free of ice they couldn't make 600 kids walk it between each lesson. That and no teacher's would want to live localy whereas mine was in a nice area!

I'm a guitar teacher in 10 schools, the closest of which is ten miles away. My two main schools are 26 and 41 miles away. It's the nature of teaching these days.

Getting kids out of school at the end of the day is a real problem. Most buses/school coaches stop running, teachers aren't allowed access to the " special clear roads network" that my boss appears to believe exists to get my staff to work....

We are open (a university) and the amount of moaning and whining I'm getting from students that we are open is ridiculous - and they aren't even forced to come in for lectures!

Unfortunately we live in a compensation/blame/nanny culture. If a child at school slips on the ice/snow then parents want cash and blame the school. Simple answer is shut the school. H&S gone mad im afraid.

[i]If a child at school slips on the ice/snow then parents want cash and blame the school[/i]

Have you got any actual examples of that happening?

Only one School open here and yeah the Teachers live far way thing doesn't work with me sorry. My wife commutes and has got there today, no surprise she got though as the roads are clear.

Not exactly sure why teachers live further away

from experience, at secondary level you don't really want to be living in the catchment area of the school your wife works at.

I went to a town school, cannot recall a day when it closed due to snow. My parents would make me walk 3 miles in and home if the buses were off. Different time, different attitudes, different world.

My kids are at the local school in the valley, many come from local villages, some from further afield. If it's open mine will walk the 2 miles into school, the eldest has to as he has GCSEs this week.

The play argument is fine, but if you look at the compressed syllabus taught you would see that there is precious little time to make up lost time. My son is about to be examined without having been taught the full course, and yes I am all over the school about this as well as putting my A-Level Physics to use after a lot of years!!

My Sis is a Head Mistress and so too her Hubby. When I've asked about issues like this (closures, early closures etc.) in the main her response is simple, the School can't cope with looking after all the pupils that can't get home.
So the steer has always been, close the School early or don't open it at all.

who cares, kids needs to play more, people tend to go nuts when schools shut for a few days as if a whole generation will turn out to be numpties because of it.

kids need to be outdoors more having unstructured play aiding life skill development.....

Nice sentiment but do you think that all the kids who could be playing outside right now aren't on their PS3's and 360's?

I can remember School closing but it was when the boiler packed in other wise they stayed open and yes the teachers travelled on then too.

My kids schools are open today, both semi-rural. We have a fair bit of snow, so I just slung the kids in the sledge and pulled them to school. We usually cycle.

Yet the city schools are listed as closed- so not sure what the criteria is.

Thanks for the responses - this really isn't meant to be a knock teachers thread. The responses from those in the "trade" are very valuable. I'm luck enough to do a job where I WFH most of the time. I appreciate that that's not true for most teachers!

Not exactly sure why teachers live further away,

In many cases around here because the teachers can't afford to live in the areas they teach in.

glad they are shut, it means that the roads were not full of chelsea tractor driving numpties this morning - so the rest of us had no real issues with the snow/ice

you watch, tomorrow the schools will reopen and the roads will grind to a halt again.

School only closed for us when the boiler packed in, usually the young 'uns were allowed to go home & year 10/11 were still expected to come 2000/2006 btw

Teacher at work here in Perthshire. Rural location. Amber warning of snow being upgraded all the time. In my experience the bus companies tend to run scared quite quickly. You then have half a school who are desperate to get away. You ever tried keeping a lid on that? 500 kids who have just seen another 400 sent home as the snow falls.

Worked great the schools I went to, they always seemed to manage to keep the rest of busy when those in the hills were sent home.

I'm at school 50 mile commute (much nicer house in the countryside as opposed to a hovel in the city. why shouldn't I have teh choices everyone else has with regards where i live). Although to be fair we are reassessing my ability to get home at lunchtime.

My sister lives in the same town I do and teaches primary there they have "resiliant schools" which means that staff attend nearest school as opposed to their own school.

If the rest of us can get to work why can't teachers?
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Also, why should parents get a 'free' day off just because the schools are closed? If I just decided not to come to work I would have to take it as a holiday, they should too. It really irks me that the rest of us have cover for parents all the time, because the little dears school is shut or the little darling has a poorly tummy, and they feel entitled to take a day off, while the rest of us struggle in. Two poeple in my office didn't make it today, one becuase the school was shut, so she's legally entitled to have a day off because of childcare problems, (Tough. It's a school, not a glorified baby-sitter) the other couldn't make it because of the roads where she lives but has had to take a days holiday.
And don't get me started on maternity holiday, they can take the best part of a year off, paid, (and still accrue holiday entitlement while they are off!) and then decide not to return to work, seen this done here many times. There shouyld be a law which says if they leave before, for example, 2yrs after returning to work they should have to pay back the maternity pay.
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Rant over. Probably failed due to lack of random capitals.

you're just miffed because you don't have any kids to give you an excuse to stay home andrewh 😉

[i]they can take the best part of a year off, paid[/i]

you might want to check that 'fact'

If the rest of us can get to work why can't teachers?
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Also, why should parents get a 'free' day off just because the schools are closed? If I just decided not to come to work I would have to take it as a holiday, they should too. It really irks me that the rest of us have cover for parents all the time, because the little dears school is shut or the little darling has a poorly tummy, and they feel entitled to take a day off, while the rest of us struggle in. Two poeple in my office didn't make it today, one becuase the school was shut, so she's legally entitled to have a day off because of childcare problems, (Tough. It's a school, not a glorified baby-sitter) the other couldn't make it because of the roads where she lives but has had to take a days holiday.
[b]And don't get me started on maternity holiday, they can take the best part of a year off, paid, (and still accrue holiday entitlement while they are off!) and then decide not to return to work, seen this done here many times. There shouyld be a law which says if they leave before, for example, 2yrs after returning to work they should have to pay back the maternity pay.[/b]
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Rant over. Probably failed due to lack of random capitals.

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My Sis is a Head Mistress and so too her Hubby

(can't resist) - her husband is a Head Mistress???? 😯

"Not exactly sure why teachers live further away,"

you know whats not nice - living in the catchment area of your school and not being able to go out in the street without kids stopping you or even worse in some areas - kids giving you abuse and vandalising your house - such is the times we live in.

My mrs is a teacher and we have had the kids stopping us in the street was ok as we lived in a nice area with a nice catchment.

the mrs new catchment is tillydrone - if we lived in the catchment im pretty sure we would have the house firebombed or similar by some of her students...

Schools closed = far less cars on the dodgy roads, making it easier for us to get to and from work, so I'm happy with it.

Some of us 'lazy teachers' work in schools on the north Yorkshire moors where we have a foot of snow.

I tried but couldn't physically get the car out. Plus I was up till midnight last night planning to give your children the best possible start in life!

It has to be safe, we are not just baby sitters!

School have to decide whether they'll have enough staff to cope with the kids. Generally, the kids are local and the staff are not. They also have to do this on the basis of the forecast weather.

There's not a single closed school in Darlington today though both Durham and North Yorkshire have loads closed.

We (sixth form college) [i]never[/i] close. But, we don't have to worry about having more staffing levels like a school and most of our staff are relatively local while the students travel in from further afield.

A friend of mines wife is a teacher, and they are told that if they can't get to the school they work at, they should go to the nearest local school where they live. Not sure how widespread that is though, or if any of them actually abide by it.

One other major difference when I was at school was that most familes not only lived near but also had one parent (usually the mother who was at home and didnt work). Its a lot hader being able to send kids home early if you can`t guarantee a parent is home to receive or collect them.

I was gonna reply that it's just a teenage thing and they'll get over it before realising I'd misread the thread title...

So back in 2009 we had a lot of snow up in Scotland.

I had one team member who lived in a fairly rural location (although we are still talking Central Belt not the Highlands)

He claimed he couldn't get in because of the conditions -local roads not cleared etc - even though he drove a Freelander! So he has to work from home - fine. Then his internet connection goes down so now he is essentially getting a free holiday.

I checked and there was a train station in his village, he bitched and moaned that it was over a mile from his house and he would struggle to get there. I told him fine but he was taking any additional days out of work as annual leave.

Funnily enough road conditions improved in his village the very next day

So in conclusion there are some right lazy barstewards who just like an excuse for a day off!

If a child at school slips on the ice/snow then parents want cash and blame the school

Tough. It's a school, not a glorified baby-sitter

Quite right. We just leave my four-year-old home alone with a giant bag of crisps and some lego so my wife can go to work

Actually, no - she stayed at home unpaid.

Yet if I take my 2 horrors out of school for a few days. I get a snotty letter telling me how their education will suffer and is detrimental to their learning a development. No thought is given to that when a snowflake tumbles down.

I have never missed a days work due to snow/weather.

We've priced Teachers and Nurses out of our city centres, so they have long commutes to work. The days when everyone lived neat their work seem to be long gone, which is a real shame as commuting is pretty sole destroying, costly and pretty daft if you think about it.

Yet if I take my 2 horrors out of school for a few days. I get a snotty letter telling me how their education will suffer and is detrimental to their learning a development. No thought is given to that when a snowflake tumbles down.

In my area they have a sensible policy. They have identified teachers that live withinn walking distance of a school (doesn't need to be their normal place of work school) When weather is forecast to be bad teachers are then deplyed to nearest, walking distance school. If this results in enough staff to open, then the school is open. If not enough staff then partial closure.

as an aside, my neighbour taught in a local school that had a tiny catchment area, every single child lived within walking distance. In 2009 when weather was terrible, staff drove in, some from 40 miles away in really bad conditions yet more than 50% of kids didn't turn up, despite living within walking distance. Can only conclude parents were happy to have them off school or wouldn't drive them in and couldn't entertain the idea of actually manning up and walking them the short distance to school.

Headmaster at the school where my Mrs works slept over at the school a couple of days last week so he could guarantee it would be open.

Lazy sod.

We've priced Teachers and Nurses out of our city centres

Just about all public sector workers

if they miss lessons that everyone else attends

Ah yes the last week of term, when its TV, video games and generally doing **** all

I'm glad our kids school is shut! They don't let them go out at playtimes when there's snow on the ground which is bloody ridiculous, in fact one day last year they'd been stuck inside for three days on the bounce so we kept them off on the Friday! Also it means we are off sledging in the next thirty minutes and no doubt it'll be a four hour session again!!!

Yet if I take my 2 horrors out of school for a few days. I get a snotty letter telling me how their education will suffer and is detrimental to their learning a development. No thought is given to that when a snowflake tumbles down.

Do you think the teacher and all the other kids sit doing nothing, and wait for yours to come back, if you take them out of school for a few days ?

Or do you think they carry on with lessons as usual and your kids miss stuff ?

We've priced Teachers and Nurses out of our city centres, so they have long commutes to work

which Cities? or is it just London

Vast majority of teachers on well above national average wages

Or do you think they carry on with lessons as usual and your kids miss stuff ?

Lessons don't make me laugh 😆

last week of term, when its TV, video games and generally doing **** all

My ex is a head teacher and shuts her school frequently. She doesn't know how to drive in snow and is incapable of rationally judging risk. Like the rest of her public sector chums, risk aversion is a preoccupation, finances are off the radar! They all feel as if the world will sue the socks of them if anything goes wrong and they may be deemed to be responsible. Their logic is loopy eg person climbs on school roof and falls through polycarbonate sky light, lands of furniture below. School thinks they are culpable, so don't place furniture below skylight!? My reckoning is that person trespassing is entirely responsible, period!

When i asked he about reflecting on previous cases over the past 25 years, she could not recall one single case where she or any of her head teacher colleagues in other schools were faced with a claim!.

Teachers are brainwashed by county council's perceived risks and eventually, they too become institutionalised. This is the public sector culture of today and they are clueless about the real aggravation they cause when closing up and having a nice day off!

The entire lot of them have no concern about money as they will receive their annual budgets and salaries regardless of whether they are open for business, or remain closed.

The solution is simple; divide the budget by the number of days the school's doors are open each year and subtract the sum for each day every time the school is closed. They can then insure for the risk of when it clearly isn't possible to open. Parents then won't have their own jobs and businesses put at risk by having to regularly take time out to look after their children! The schools will only close in dire emergencies and the taxes we pay will deliver the services we righly deserve.

Job done! 😀

onehundredthidiot - Member

My sister lives in the same town I do and teaches primary there they have "resiliant schools" which means that staff attend nearest school as opposed to their own school.

This is the most sensible thing I have heard but never seen happen, re schools and snow. Should apply to all service sectors - hospitals, care centres, schools, the lot - surely some resources are better than none.

Mrs Cat is now an ex Community Midwife who went out in all weathers, irrespective of how deep the snow became. We had to buy her a 4x4 because that's what her job dictated, no help from the Trust, they just expected her to get there, as did the expectant mums.

Perhaps Pob's announcement re performance related pay for teachers may change things. 😀

There's another factor to it, attendance in schools is a big factor to if its viewed as 'succeeding' or 'failing', if the school opened and half the kids didn't turn up it would be marked against them, hence shutting the school - according to the missus (teacher). Asked her why weather wasn't taken into account and she said it just isn't...yay...

"[i]they can take the best part of a year off, paid[/i]"

Erm, yeah, check that fact fella...

right o Fire station will be closed tomorrow as flurries have hit here. Take care out there.

[b]last week of term[/b], when its TV, video games and generally doing **** all

was that the sound of goalposts being moved ? 😉

This is the most sensible thing I have heard but never seen happen, re schools and snow. Should apply to all service sectors - hospitals, care centres, schools, the lot - surely some resources are better than none.

2 years ago schools still shut because the council risk assessed it. I don't think I ever got a response to my letter asking why it was inherently unsafe in a school classroom compared to the likely situation that the children were outside playing in the ice / snow / sledging and / or poorly supervised at home. I don't think my letter pointing out the obligation in the Education Act to open on 190 days a year was too popular - especially when they subsequently closed for the royal wedding...

@Monsho
Howdo chap. 😀

[i]teachers to attend local school if unable to attend their own, even outside their own local authority area[/i]

I'm sure my wife will welcome them to her school.

Gastrostomy feeding is one of those things you need no training for.

which Cities? or is it just London

Vast majority of teachers on well above national average wages

Most cities. You need to earn well above mean average wage to buy a house in most places now....

@Rogerthecat

Afternoon...

Got rid of your bread yet?

My wife is a teacher - and her school is closed today.

They closed at 11.30am on Friday - semi rural location - 50% of kids are bussed in from rural locations. The bus company forced their hand on Friday by phoning the school and telling them the buses would be at the school at 11.30 - any child who wasn't on a bus would have to make their own way home.

Today they are closed because the site has been deemed to dangerous to work in.

When it started to snow on friday - the school was immediately inundated with f***wit parents demanding their child be let out of school because they didn't want to drive and pick them up later if the snow got any worse.

There are many issues which have lead to the current situation - not all apply to all schools though.

Schools are sh*t scared of litigation if someone falls over on the site.

The last two schools my wife has worked in - the caretakers used to live on site - however when the schools became academys they sold the caretakers houses off to make some money, and now the caretakers live miles away, and often cannot get in to help clear the site.

When I was at school the on-site caretakers would grit the whole school - my wifes school doesn't hold any grit as it is deemed a waste of money (it might not snow again for 5 years?)

Teachers (and kids) now travel a lot further to get to school - the days of going to the nearest school are long gone - you try and send your child to the best school, which is not always the nearest.

Many teachers are also parents - school closeures have a bit of a cascade effect - if your kids are out of school and you can't find anyone to look after them what do you do?

I think this slightly silly situation is a product of modern life, and is here to stay...

footflaps -

I assume you mean MEDIAN not MEAN as nobody uses mean as average wage (skewed by outliers) therefore if your statement were accurate 50% of the population could not afford to live "most places" now...

Bear in mind (1) individual earnings are not the same as household.
(2) STARTING salary for teachers is round about the average for all workers in the UK...

I think once one shuts then another and another it kind of just snowballs......

@Monsho.
Just the odd 26 loaves left, could post you a few?

Many teachers are also parents - school closeures have a bit of a cascade effect - if your kids are out of school and you can't find anyone to look after them what do you do?

My parents used to take me to their school when there wasn't anyone else to look after us. I remember being allowed to draw all over the blackboards in empty classrooms in my Dad's school. It was a great day out as I recall.

my wifes school doesn't hold any grit as it is deemed a waste of money (it might not snow again for 5 years?)

Does grit have a use-by date on it?

I suppose back in my school days, only a few had cars and most pupils lived close enough to walk to school, as did most of the teachers. The school bus did the rest and the roads were pretty clear. The lower number of drivers that were there were used to driving in snow and weren't needlessly panicked by the hyped up media and "good advice" that authorities now give out (understandable if you are delivering emergency services and don't fancy the thought of being inundated with incidents, as is the case with congested roads full of drivers inexperienced in driving in snow).

When you think about it, cheap cars and cheap transport has allowed these bad habits to form, where people waste time and fuel getting about. Life was inevitably much simpler and straightforward back then. So being richer does not mean a better quality of life (I learned this clocking up starship mileages in a company car - purgatory in a luxury vehicle).

I live in and went to primary school in a rural area, from 1976 to 1983. I can't recall the school ever being closed because of bad weather. One of the teachers lived 20 miles away and always managed to get in. If we couldn't be driven to school or the buses weren't running we had to walk.

When I went to secondary school, which was 16 miles from home we had a bus laid on. I can only remember that school being shut once, for one day, in 1987.

It's an absolute nonsense. Perhaps they could use "snow-days" learning how to drive in the stuff...

Rural Leicestershire here.

We have two schools in the village, right next to each other. One is a primary, the other a secondary.

The catchment area for the primary is the village, the majority of pupils (including my own two) walk in; this one is open. The catchment area for the second one is much wider and the majority of the kids have to be bussed in from very rural areas; this one is closed as the bus company is refusing to run.

Our local one closes because otherwise you've got massive amounts of kids making avoidable journeys in an assortment of ways.

Sure, in ye old days they stayed open more, but then less crowded roads etc meant it was safer too.

I lost 3 days from school between 1973 & 1984, and that was due to a broken boiler in the winter of 79/80.

Have to take my hat off to the head of my lads primary, in Lichfield.
He refuses to shut the school as he sadi most live within 15min walk, & it causes the parents too much disruption. We arrived this morning to find he'd been in since 6am clearing paths with the caretaker. Top bloke. Could do with more like him.

Compare that to the school the wifes sister teaches at, in B'ham. That was shut last Thursday...the day BEFORE the snow came. She became cross at mu suggestion that, as a PUBLIC SERVANT, she should be out gritting paths.