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Just asking.
JHJ
It's a really long-winded bluff.
Depends what a good politician is. Is a good politician someone who represents effective policy or someone who generates interest and finds holes in his opposite number's argument?
Had a very similar discussion in 16 Towers the other day, 'cept the question was 'who was the last half decent UK politician?' I thought, maybe, Attlee qualified (welfare state and all that). Mrs 16 thought of Tony Benn. Then we were stumped. 🙁
As for now, who knows? In terms of representing local opinion, I suppose it would have to be an Independent of some kind. I don't know one tho.
I quite Like Jim Murphy.
Of the ones I'm familiar with, Skinner.
Current politician - [b]Alex Salmond[/b]. You may not agree with him but he is a very accomplished and skillful politician.
Past masters - [b]Tony Benn[/b] - head and shoulders above anybody else.
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Jim Murphy[/i] ..........seriously?
Not current: Tony Benn, Michael Foot.
I quite Like Jim Murphy.
Soon to be an ex-politician if the latest polls are to be believed. It sounds like his only chance of keeping his seat would be tactical voting from the Tories.
It sounds like his only chance of keeping his seat would be tactical voting from the Tories.
It's a distinct possiblity given the amount of previous tory voters in that place.
Alan Johnson is ok. Ken Livingston is ok too.
They are all shite if you are at the wrong end.
😈
Jim Murphy?? In charge of Scottish Labour when their Scottish empire falls. Obviously "best" doesn't need to mean successful.
Dennis Skinner. A man of principle and integrity. Which means everyone in Parliament, including all his own party, hate him. As he shows them all up for the morally bankrupt political pygmies that are!
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Nick Clegg. He took leadership of a party which hadn't been in government for over 100 years and ended up Deputy Prime Minister of Britain.
Dennis Skinner. A man of principle and integrity.
If he had principles and integrity I doubt he'd still be in NuLab given it's probably significantly right of where the Tories where when he first joined the Labour party.
Well, interestingly I've not heard a thing from any of my candidates, and the election is in a matter of weeks, so at a local level at least, I've no way of making a judgement. Idiots.
Steve - I'm sat reading his biography at the moment. An incredible man, brought up in grinding poverty, who got where he is through hard graft and sacrifice! What comes across isn't some careerist hankering for ministerial office, but a passionate desire to represent the interests of his constituants, particularly the poor and disadvantaged. In fact, the poor and disadvantaged generally. Something a lot more politicians should try concentrating on!
I've not got to the Nu Labour years yet. I'm sure he'll have hated Blair! And I'm sure it's be mutual! I'm sure the leadership have always regarded him as a right PITA!!!! But his focus would still remain the interests of his constituents. And I'm sure he'd regard Nu labour, despite its many faults, as considerably better than the alternative!
I'd suggest Farage, though I don't like what he stands for.
He has identified a fairly widely held couple of concerns, he has brought them to political discussion for the first time in a generation, and he doesn't try and pander to the middle ground.
He's still an arse though.
I might read his biography - it'll be interesting to see how he reconciles his socialist beliefs with what Blair and Brown did to the party, betraying people like him and his constituents.
It's a good read! And demonstrates just how far the careerists are removed from men like him. I'm sure the word 'betrayal' will crop up regularly with regard to Blair and brown. But they're long gone (thank god!) and he's still here, making a nuisance of himself on behalf of those who voted for him!
Hazel Blears.
Easily forgotten is the essential truth of politics, that in order to make a difference you need to be elected to power, to make a real difference you need to stay there!
Principles and integrity mean little if you spend a lifetime in opposition - without winning, it's all just noise!
That's why I would exclude Skinner, Benn & Agent Boot of the KGB - conviction politicians they might be, but what they really achieved was to split their party down the middle and hold it from power for a decade.
At least Blair, for all his faults, learned that lesson, and for that you have to give him (and Clegg) a grudging respect!.
No nomination for your hero ninfan? Thatcher?!
Not being a labour voter / supporter I have to say the late Tony Benn, Dennis Skinner and George Galloway
@binners - Alan Johnson
Took a shed load of flak, could have been leader but turned it down, remarkable bio.
Thatch in her prime was both a conviction politician and ruthless, I dont think that conviction makes for a great politician, you need to be able to recognise when you have made a mistake and back down, and when to compromise - Thatch fails that test, though hugely admire her for winning the Cold War single handed 😉
Hague could have been one of the greats, if he had not been thrown in to an unwinnable position too early - if he came to the fore now, without the baggage from his previous leadership, he would be legendary.
At a national level Dennis Skinner has been wholly ineffectual beyond the entertainment value he offers in the otherwise somewhat boring environs of the House of Commons. I have no idea how effective his work at constituency level has been.
Perhaps a man of 'principle and integrity' who saw his party hijacked and transformed into something unrecognizable from the one he first represented would have resigned his seat and stood as an independent? Or perhaps helped to form a a party which could have challenged New Labour? Or perhaps have appeared on TV and radio chat shows and interviews, and newspaper columns, and in other ways which connects with ordinary people, to make the case for an alternative argument?
Perhaps a man of principle and integrity could have thought of other things beyond wisecracks from the backbenches?
There's nothing wrong imo with Skinner's wisecracks btw, his wit is excellent, clever, and highly amusing, and clearly a great boast to morale for many on the Left. But it takes more than a boost to morale to win a battle.
EDIT : Just in case that it might be misconstrued that I am personally criticizing Dennis Skinner, I'm not, and I don't doubt his 'principles and integrity', I'm just questioning how effective he has been as a national politician. I like Dennis Skinner a lot, but I think that someone like Ken Livingstone has been a bit more effective.
^^ ernie +1.
Skinner is no doubt a conviction politician but what has he contributed to UK politics* aside from scheduled heckling/wisecracks ?
At the age of 83 isn't it time for him to stand aside for a younger candidate ?
* wider than a constituent MP
Skinner is local, next door to me (constituency). He may not have the reigns of achieving anything on a national level purely because of the way he is contained by the 'system'. What is a genuine left winger ever going to achieve in our centre right structures?
He has done some impressive david and Goliath stuff on a constiuencty level (Arkwright Town is a great story). He put good resistance to the Iraq war and the pit closures.
Sadly the press love to hate him. That's shaped his career.
Galloway is also a 5* when not being a celebrity and the way he took on the yanks about his involvement with Saddam was legendary.
Not partial to many Tories but I quite like Ken Clarke and John Major, both moderates that should have retired a while ago.
[quote=rone said] John Major, both moderates that should have retired a while ago.
He did, in 2001.
Yeah as MP but he's still been vocal.
Mainly aimed at KC.
Douglas Hurd - skilled statesman and diplomat.
Charles Kennedy - possibly the only politician in the last 15 years who I'd trust not to **** me over for the sake of it.
Nick Clegg. He took leadership of a party which hadn't been in government for over 100 years and ended up Deputy Prime Minister of Britain.
Certainly quite an impressive achievement. Personally I reckon he's the best of all the party leaders.
Personally I reckon he's the best of all the party leaders.
Not an amazingly competitive field though. I'd say he tries the most to be liked.
Vince Cable was okay once.
Best is tricky I guess. A strong leader that could make great decisions is likely to divide.
Certainly quite an impressive achievement. Personally I reckon he's the best of all the party leaders.
But obviously not as good as Tony Blair who won three general elections.....that's clearly a more "impressive achievement".
I reckon Tony Blair should top the list of best living politicians in the UK.
He does live in the UK most of the time doesn't he ?
Margaret Hodge of the current bunch, or Alan Johnson
Not too keen on some of his doings when in government, but for balance if I had to name a tory, Ken Clark
Of ones I can remember from the past, the late John Smith.
In my humble opinion his untimely death was a tragedy for the country.
Hague could have been one of the greats,
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Always intrigued to know if John Smith would have been as great as we all hoped he would be.
And I agree that Hague would make a great Tory leader now, but they stuffed him over too young.
Having been on the receiving end of an MPs enquiry from Dennis Skinner, I wish he'd retired 20 years ago!
Simon Danczuk gets my vote. Alan Johnson seems pretty sound too...
as for the others? Like being invited to a sewerage farm to pick my favorite turd.
Certainly quite an impressive achievement. Personally I reckon he's the best of all the party leaders.
On the other hand if he hadn't destroyed his parties credibility by selling out to the Tories in exchange for a few ministerial cars and a useless AV referendum, then perhaps his party would have been well placed to offer a credible alternative to Labour and Tory in this election, continuing the progress they made in 2010 instead of reversing it.
And I agree that Hague would make a great Tory leader now
He doesn't have the hair for it.
Was going to mention John Smith. Obviously he's not current 🙁 wife was in attendance when he ws taken ill (the first time..)
Again from the past, would have said likes of Sam Galbraith, Dennis Canavan, even likes of Heseltine and John Biffen. Charles Kennedy - for all his foibles - as said he's someone who says what I believe he believes in..
I always admired Tony Benn and Paddy Ashdown.
Paddy Ashdown especially, more pragmatic than the more idealistic Tony Benn and struck me as a practical, useful guy - current lot aside I've always like the liberals, no purely power mad type joins the Lib Dems, if you want to be PM one day you join the big two.
Not to mention if you look as his background, he was basically James Bond 😉
If more Tory bigwigs were like IDS and Hague, they would be much better off.