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So my sister paid a small fortune for a large area of imprinted patio around the rear of her house.
The landscapers did their job and left for the day. A short while afterwards Mr Window cleaner turns up and imprints his size 12's all over it.
My sister was out for the day and came back to a note from the window cleaner "Sorry couldn't clean rear windows - wet cement".
Landscapers say not their problem but they haven't been paid yet. I don't believe they left any signs up to say that the cement was wet.
Anyone know if the landscapers are liable and how this could play out...?
Cheers
I'd say your sister was liable for not telling the window cleaner.
Jobsite fenced off and warnings posted? No, then most likely the Patio Lads, H&S law is quite hot on making sure the work area is safe from third parties. Wet cement also gets the HSE all twitchy too.
Well if builders had dug a big hole then would you expect them to fence it off or a painter put up a "wet paint" sign. Basic h&s and concrete is nasty.
You can't expect the window cleaner to know but you would expect him to realise very quickly and leave a minimum of impressions. If he's been having fun spelling out his initials and drawing giant cocks then I'd be after his blood.
It probably would have been prudent for her to have thought ahead and put up signs for the window cleaner or anyone else knowing she was having work done.
Tbh it will probably come down to her having to stump up more cash to get it sorted
Patio layers for the first footprint, muppet window cleaner for the rest.
Dont think it's really the landscapers fault, if the cement was in an enclosed private garden.. The owner has commissioned the work, why would they put a sign up? Also the window cleaner was just unlucky..
Think you might just have to chalk this one up.
I would say the lanscapers if anyone is to be be blamed for not securing the area, it's not like the window cleaner did anything out of the ordinary and he certainly isn't gonna pay for it
Pics?
Won't establish liability, but may cheer some of us up
What mattyfez said. If it's in a private garden then I'd consider that pretty secure. Up to the home owner to warn anyone who might go in there.
So your sister has some work done, knows the window cleaner is due but doesn't tell him that there is wet cement. I'd say that was her fault.
Indeed had let's say the window cleaner slipped, fallen and hurt themselves I think they'd have a solid claim against her. Best she could hope to do then is subrogate against the patio guys but couldnt see her winning.
Did she know the window cleaner was coming Danny? Or is that an assumption?
Well I'm making the assumption that the window cleaner is a regular occurrence and didn't just turn up at a random house on the off chance that someone would want their windows doing.
On that basis and given that there was a load of wet concrete just been laid I'd have let ours know...
next door to my folks have my long dead cat's prints on their drive way.
i remember coming home from work, pulling up in front of the house and Jet the cat came bounding over to me. fortunately the tracks are diagonal coming from the other side down to the front, otherwise they may have suspected it was something to do with Jet.
makes me smile when i see it as it reminds me of my cat and because Terry, the nieghbour, is a cantankerous prick.
Tough cookies.
Patio layers for the first footprint, muppet window cleaner for the rest.
Harsh but fair.
Well I'm making the assumption that the window cleaner is a regular occurrence and didn't just turn up at a random house on the off chance that someone would want their windows doing.
Could be a key bit of evidence though.
I know some stick to a set day, but others seem to operate more on a whim.
Patio layers for the first footprint, muppet window cleaner for the rest.
Missed this, can't argue with it!
It's pretty clearly the landscapers fault if you want to go down this route:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/safetytopics/publicprotection.htm
If you get anywhere or not is another matter, but if you haven't paid, the cards are in your hand.
Urm.. That's to do with members of the public, your presumably private back garden is presumably not open to the public... Unless you live in Chatsworth house or something lol!
Did you read it?
Protecting the publicWhat you need to do
The law says you must conduct your business without putting members of the public at risk. This includes the public and other workers who may be affected by your work.The project client should provide information about:
boundaries
adjacent land usage
access; and
measures to exclude unauthorized persons
This will influence the measures contractors take.Key issues are:
Managing site access
Hazards causing risk to the public
Vulnerable groups
How are they putting members of the *public* at risk? It's private land as far as we know?
I suppose the window cleaner could have a case to sue the house owner for a twisted ankle and a new pair of boots.. But I'm struggling to see where you are going with this!
CDM regs for a day or two concreting?? I think the HSE would have a job locating the F10 if the sister looked at that route for recompense.
It's not notifiable work under the regs, but all construction projects fall under CDM2015...
CDM doesn't always mean notifying the HSE, F10 is irrelevant.
Nor is CDM likely to help as to who is liable. Sounds to me like the product needed protecting, not the window cleaner...
Well I'm making the assumption that the window cleaner is a regular occurrence and didn't just turn up at a random house on the off chance that someone would want their windows doing.
Our window cleaner comes whenever he wants.
Anywhere between 2 weeks and a month apart (he's supposed to come every 3 weeks)
I never know he's coming, and I never know he's been either. I just give him some money every time he knocks on the door in the evening 🙂
How are they putting members of the *public* at risk? It's private land as far as we know?
You don't stop being a member of the public when you go on private property..... Think about it.
Did you read it?
The law says you must conduct your business without putting members of the public at risk. [b]This includes the public and other workers who may be affected by your work.[/b]
Yawn.
Must be passed your bedtime on a school night.
Ohhhhh more to add to this story....
Just seen the original typed quote from the landscapers.
It specifically says that the work area will be secured with tape and signs until the area is dry. Or something to that affect.
I think the landscapers have made an expensive mistake. They've been recorded on CCTV the whole time too which will obviously show they didn't take such actions.
The landscaper is blaming the window cleaner for "trespassing". He sounds a bit simple to be honest. His wife is coming around to asses the damage and take it from there.
So I guess in my sisters defence. Why would she make plans to secure the area herself when part of the quote includes them doing this for her?
[b]His wife [/b]is coming around to asses the damage and take it from there.
That just seems odd to me. Unless they work together, what's his wife got to do with it.
Well that changes things! If they said they'd do that as part of the quoted job and it's in writing.. Well there you go, I'd withhold payment until they fix the mess!
Not sure how a regular window cleaner can trespass, they have permission to be there as they are contracted to do a job just like the landscapers.
Sounds like his wife is the level headed one and he's a bit angry (no doubt at his own mistake!)
Think she's got him over a barrel on this one now
The window cleaner has also been in contact again. He's very apologetic and has asked if there is anything he can do to help put things right. That's surprising to be honest. A properly genuine and kind person to do that. I don't think they'll accept anything from him as it's clearly not his fault. It's like digging a hole, covering it up and then shouting at someone for falling in it!
That just seems odd to me. Unless they work together, what's his wife got to do with it.
Maybe she's the boss. A woman I work with keeps the books etc for her partner who does the actual window cleaning.
The people who laid the concrete, sack the window cleaner. Any decent person who stop immediately and think 'shit wet concrete' and retrace their steps.
nealglover - Member
Our window cleaner comes whenever he wants.Anywhere between 2 weeks and a month apart (he's supposed to come every 3 weeks)
I never know he's coming, and I never know he's been either. I just give him some money every time he knocks on the door in the evening
If he waits round the corner until there's no cash in the house then we have the same window cleaner.
It specifically says that the work area will be secured with tape and signs until the area is dry. Or something to that affect.
Well there you go. Case closed.
I never know he's coming, and I never know he's been either. I just give him some money every time he knocks on the door in the evening
Put some wet concrete around your house and then you can tell. Or one would hope you can tell by the clean windows.
il there's no cash in the house then we have the same window cleaner.
That's the one 🙂
Put some wet concrete around your house and then you can tell. Or one would hope you can tell by the clean windows.
He only comes when it rains so it's hard to tell.