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My white blood cell count is on the low side (3.9 at last count, 4-10 is normal) and has been around that for many years. Thing is i never get ill with colds etc so i have my fingers crossed that I just 'run low'. Medical tests have not discovered any other reason for it.
That said last year I severely uped the intensity of my training and lost a ton of weight and my wbc count dropped to around 3. Didn't have any symptoms, but have severely cut down on longer rides for the moment to avoid a repeat
My white blood cell count is on the low side (3.9 at last count, 4-10 is normal) and has been around that for many years. Thing is i never get ill with colds etc
Ive got secondary progressive MS yet in my 48yrs i have never had measles/chickenpox/sore throat/a cold/flu or any illness throughout my life, never even had a runny/snotty nose but i do get occasional cold sores (that clear up within a day) when those around me get ill. Perhaps i'm actually an alien visitor who got stranded here.
Lifestyle is a big thing. When I worked in the oilfield I would get colds a lot because of interacting and working with people so closely, plus all the long-haul flights. In the last few years where I've been much more solitary, I think it's about 2 years since I even had a cold.
Just reading about the Paris joggers thing on France24.
Is what’s reported accurate that there are large groups of joggers out? Seems crazy particularly with so many cases in the north east.
why the **** is scientists question school closures up for discussion?
Are you saying UCL shouldn't have done the research? Or that Dr Samantha Brooks & Prof Robert Dingwall shouldn't have added their independent comments? Or Prof Neil Ferguson should have explained the benefits of doing it? Or that the media shouldn't be reporting it.
Personally, I think data is always a good thing, especially where the context is spelled out as clearly as this. Limiting reasearch on the basis the (caveated) conclusion doesn't meet your preconceptions seems a bad idea. At what point do you ban it? In advance? Once you've read the conclusion?
No social contact outside the immediate home, perfectly understandable and good advice, so
The article you linked to specifically quotes Prof Neil Ferguson addressing that:
"When combined with intense social distancing it plays an important role in severing remaining contacts between households and thus ensuring transmission declines," he said.
Simples: Unless the country is in total lockdown school closures don't have benefits as large as we might imagine. As part of a stricter lockdown they do. I do't see that as especially controversial.
New uk figures out - 758 deaths recorded today. Considering every Tuesday has seen a spike from weekend under-recording, it still shows a decent trend. (the drop from sun-mon was 180, so reallocate 180 deaths from today to Monday, then recent numbers are:
563, 569, 684, 708, 621, 619, 580
Tuesday is the 'outside hospital' day, IIRC. edit: sorry, that's rubbish.
Makes 12% 3-day average.
From 2nd to 5th, the 3-day average was 21%.
Three days don't yet make a trend but it is a promising drop, and we are now two weeks on from lockdown and three weeks on from the soggy soft 'wash yer hands and please don't go to the pub'.
Scottish figures will likely need to be reviewed as they will now be including deaths with "suspected CV19" symptoms. I think that starts tomorrow. No news of the other UK data gathering being similarly changed.
Or that the media shouldn’t be reporting it.
That the media should do a better job of reporting on it. Perhaps leading with the comment that the study suggess that a limited re-opening of schools, with limited attendance paired with major changes to enable social distancing could be possible without a major increase in spread of the virus. Not using a headline “closing schools unnecessary say boffins”, or similar.
854 for the UK
758 for England only
Theres plenty of poor journalism. This article on confusion between reported 7 real deaths uses a graphic that completely inflates the data discussed beneath it, as well as using confusing terms.
Sorry Piemonster my mistake will edit ^^^^^^
edit : too late !!
should read 563, 569, 684, 708, 621, 619, 634 for corrected 7 day daily deaths
For those who prefer pictures!
...and per million for those who like to compare countries:
Promising.
Unless the country is in total lockdown school closures don’t have benefits as large as we might imagine. As part of a stricter lockdown they do. I do’t see that as especially controversial.
For me, the bit that is controversial is the expectation you can maintain an appropriate social distancing regime within a school.
Prof Viner says ...
"There's a whole range of things that schools could do to reopen in a way that involves social distancing at schools but keeps schools open."
Theres plenty of poor journalism. This article on confusion between reported 7 real deaths uses a graphic that completely inflates the data discussed beneath it, as well as using confusing terms.
Yeah, plenty of journalism sucks, but that BBC article was better than average, not worse. Lots of detail, lots of direct quotes from named people. Specifics about which report it was referring to and the Govt guy's response included.
...but the post I was responding to wasn't criticising the quality of the article, he was saying the "discussion" shouldn't be happening. I have a real problem with that. If we only allow research work that meets our pre-conceived ideas then we might as well forget about Data based decision making and go with our gut feeling.
For me, the bit that is controversial is the expectation you can maintain an appropriate social distancing regime within a school.
There are. They listed several on R4 at lunchtime.
For me, the bit that is controversial is the expectation you can maintain an appropriate social distancing regime within a school.
Prof Viner says …
“There’s a whole range of things that schools could do to reopen in a way that involves social distancing at schools but keeps schools open.”
Prof Viner talks a load of pony.
They listed several on R4 at lunchtime
Do tell, I'm not adverse to people reporting what's on radio.
Indeed, following the measures he suggests would keep a school open in name only, with most kids still being at home on any given school day and a very different staff:pupil ratio than normal, requiring all teaching staff to attend and be put at risk.
Also, he has **** all understanding about how kids in a “normal” school would likely behave when asked to keep social distance at all times, if you ask me.
It’s all useful stuff to look at, and should help inform the eventual return to school, but should not be reported as “school closures not needed” by the media. It feeds the idea that kids can be free to mingle, which sadly is far from the case.
Let’s hope the return to school can begin sooner rather than later.
Do tell, I’m not adverse to people reporting what’s on radio.
No outside breaks. Short days - as in two hours. Alternating year groups.
Also, he has **** all understanding about how kids in a “normal” school would likely behave when asked to keep social distance at all times, if you ask me.
(s)He's a DOCTOR! Their job is not to come up with a policy, just to say what medical consequences mightbe. ...and they're telling us that under some circumstances school closures aren't as beneficial as we might think. Then (if they even read it) the government people have a read and think "fair enough but there's nothing in here to suggest we made the wrong call" . ...and in this case we know they have read it because Neil Ferguson explains why the current policy was right in the same bloody article!
Why are people so afraid of facts and data? The more data the better.
If schools weren’t packed full of kids, who mingle in corridors, on the way to and from school on bus and by foot, share classrooms with lots of other kids, follow new rules they are given… if, if, if…
No one is scared of facts and data, don’t be so patronising.
The headline reporting, and how it will influence the behaviour of those who read them is the issue. The study is to be welcomed and should be expanded on and used to inform policy, which it no doubt will be.
No outside breaks. Short days – as in two hours. Alternating year groups.
Possible, but you would probably need to restrict class size to under about 10 instead of the normal 30+ (as Mrs SWSD has found through experience) and also expect them to sit at their desks for the whole two hours. I suppose that might work at secondary school. But then you might just as well stick with distance learning.
Okay, I haven't read back through all 187 pages...
I'm getting the sense the 2 week long period of "we're all in this together' has left the UK as quickly as it arrived, now it's just people peering through their curtains judging everyone else for breaking some rule they can't possibly know they're breaking.
I've been asked, quite aggressively twice in the last few days whether I should be driving my car (and once by a PCSO but he was cool and more concerned why I was stood looking through the window of a closed building, long story). For the record, yes, I should.
I've seen endless Twitter posts completely devoid of any sense of irony "OMG, I WENT TO THE PARK TODAY AND IT'S FULL OF OTHER PEOPLE, I CAN'T BELIEVE SOME PEOPLE ARE SO IRRESPONSIBLE"
I've heard shop workers moaning to their friends as they serve them "I'M FED UP OF ALL THESE PEOPLE COMING IN JUST TO BUY BOOZE, IT'S NOT ESSENTIAL!!! 20 Benson and Hedges did you say?"
Fear of strangers has made the UK a much worse place in my lifetime, for a moment there it looked like people were going to start trusting again, all those lovely stories of people asking elderly neighbours if they needed shopping etc have been replaced by tales of people witnessing people doing things that must be wrong, because it's not what I do"
Possible, but you would probably need to restrict class size to under about 10 instead of the normal 30+ (as Mrs SWSD has found through experience) and also expect them to sit at their desks for the whole two hours. I suppose that might work at secondary school. But then you might just as well stick with distance learning.
I'm reporting what I heard, at the direct request of another poster, I'm not advocating it. I think the Ferguson/Whitty et al have got this spot on, while the lockdown is on, schools should be off.
I'm merely saying that saying that something shouldn't have been "discussed" because it doesn't meet our pre-conceived ideas is a bat poo mental. A medievil outlook.
Why are people so afraid of facts and data? The more data the better.
Caroline Criado Perez reports that according to Matt Hancock "four doctors have died and some nurses". Are the nurses deaths being counted?
"The official UK government NHS COVID-19 data collection does not ask for sex. Sex-disaggregated data matters."
P-Jay
No, I think within communities the helpful spirit is alive and well. Social Media has always had its share of curtain twitching retards.
No, I think within communities the helpful spirit is alive and well. Social Media has always had its share of curtain twitching retards.
+1
Amazing around my way.
Regarding schools, couldn’t the current situation be used to rejig the school year? So instead of having school years that run Sept to Aug, instead they run Jan to Dec getting rid of the six weeks holiday at the same time? So for example end of term is three weeks long instead of the current two times two weeks and six week summer holiday. If schools were to re-open in say September then kids could finish their last term of this school year.
Could be the first good thing to come of this. Put the long holiday over Christmas. Stops the dangerous and miserable walking to/from school in the dark and rain in Dec/Jan, less chance of snow disruption, removes all the school traffic from rush hour at the busiest/worst/most polluting time of the year. Plus could get cricket back into state schools.
Caroline Criado Perez reports that according to Matt Hancock “four doctors have died and some nurses”. Are the nurses deaths being counted?
“The official UK government NHS COVID-19 data collection does not ask for sex. Sex-disaggregated data matters.”
My Wife became completely enraged at that, as if Nurse fatalities were acceptable and not worth recording, but DOCTORS my word, that's terrible.
The RCN is recording Nurse infection and fatality rates I think, and in my opinion it's being massively unrecorded. There was a Headline that "up to 30 Nurses" were off-sick with CV19 in Southend Hospital in Essex like this was remarkable. For context my Wife works with in a team of about 10 Nurses. 1 is self-isolating because she has a mild lung condition, 3 has tested Positive for it and are off, 1 of which is in a serious condition in Hospital. That's a 30% infection rate. They're not treating Covid cases specifically and they're not working in hospital.
according to Matt Hancock “four doctors have died and some nurses”.
They have been counted, and named, since then. I was put out by that comment by Hancock at the time, but in retrospect it was probably more about keeping things quiet for the families so close to the timing of their losses than it was about treating doctors and nurses differently.
Regarding schools, couldn’t the current situation be used to rejig the school year? So instead of having school years that run Sept to Aug, instead they run Jan to Dec getting rid of the six weeks holiday at the same time? So for example end of term is three weeks long instead of the current two times two weeks and six week summer holiday. If schools were to re-open in say September then kids could finish their last term of this school year.
I mentioned this on FB. Rather than try to get kids to home-study at the moment (it's not really happening apparently) start school again whenever is safe/practical to do so and run, as much as possible into the Summer Hols as weeks were lost. Yes it was cause some issue with holidays etc, but IMHO if a kid misses 2 weeks of school in August it's a lot better than just writing off 6/8 or whatever weeks now.
My friends who work in Education didn't like the idea with very many flaky excuses why it wouldn't work...
Madame is currently correcting an audio blog, 100% of the kids contributed. 6/120 kids didn't e-mail in the last exercise so Madame e-mailed the parents (which was also proof the kids had Net access) which got a rsponse from 5/6. The last recalcitrant kid/parents are being contacted by school admin. That's as good a return as if the kids were in school.
Edit: the main problem I can see is that Madame is having to put in an unreasonable number of hours to make it all happen, same for her colleagues, they'll be pleased when they can return to normal teaching.
Just browsing STW from our bedroom where I can see quite a few artics driving into the back of the council depot not more than a hundred yards from my front door. On the trailers are large refrigerated containers for the set-up of a temporary mortuary for Bristol. (In letter to residents, it was stated that it was hoped it wouldn’t be needed.) Quite sobering.
Yes it was cause some issue with holidays etc, but IMHO if a kid misses 2 weeks of school in August it’s a lot better than just writing off 6/8 or whatever weeks now.
Feel free to send your kids to school, I'll be on holiday!
My friends who work in Education didn’t like the idea with very many flaky excuses why it wouldn’t work…
Yeah, bloody experts - I've had enough of 'em. Schools should run like the man in the streets thinks they should run.
DD - I’ve been wondering whether a lot of the temp morgues are as much to do with the inability to run funerals interfering with normal flow rather than massive spikes in normal death rates?
Sobering maths:
Nightingale: 5000 beds - with av stay in ITU 10 days (ish). Every day that's 500 people leaving, with 50/50 odds on which way, that could easily be 250 per day arriving in the morgue, it's one every 6 minutes.
DD – I’ve been wondering whether a lot of the temp morgues are as much to do with the inability to run funerals interfering with normal flow rather than massive spikes in normal death rates?
I imagine so dude. We don’t speak much here of the toll at the back end of the crisis. Mrs dd’s step-grandfather died last week, not CV, was flu, but not even his widow able to attend funeral. Nor FiL who was v close to him. Both in highly vulnerable groups. A lot of anguish around which will take it’s fair toll too. 😔
Yes, my Gran died 3 weeks ago (non-CV) and similar situation.
Guardian article on Chinese trials using Convalescent Plasma on severely ill patients - early signs hopeful.
My auntie died due to a heart condition on Jan 27th. Her funeral is tomorrow.
Sadly we are not attending .
It's not just the schools that need to change, it's all the other educational establishments, support services, private schools etc. Changing the school year would take years of planning, not happening any time soon, as if we don't have enough needless disruption this year. Plus if the kids aren't back by September I think the country has bigger issues to worry about other than mucking about with the time tables.
On an unrelated note the scrotes next door seem to be having an outdoor family party, only mum actually lives at the address, all, young and old are heavy smokers.
Yep Pondo and anagallis_arvensis proving that even in a time of global crisis, asking Teachers to work in August is still, unthinkable ha ha.
Of course they're all working really hard at the moment, on no, that's right, they're in the first of their 2 week Easter break 😉
Some teachers at my son’s school (Rec - Yr2) are in this week looking after keyworkers’ kids.
My Wife became completely enraged at that, as if Nurse fatalities were acceptable and not worth recording, but DOCTORS my word, that’s terrible.
P-Jay - am not surprised at your wife's reaction, pretty demoralising too.
It's good that infection and fatality rates for nursing staff are being recorded, it will hopefully give some context although a 30% infection rate is scary. Tough for your wife with each day bringing different challenges and knowing that she has to look after her own health too.
Of course they’re all working really hard at the moment, on no, that’s right, they’re in the first of their 2 week Easter break 😉
Apart form the ones that are covering the Easter break and both bank holidays while having to ignore all that government advice about social distancing.
Sobering maths:
Nightingale: 5000 beds – with av stay in ITU 10 days (ish). Every day that’s 500 people leaving, with 50/50 odds on which way, that could easily be 250 per day arriving in the morgue, it’s one every 6 minutes.
Is it really 50/50 odds on patients in ITU? Jeez.
Anyway, there are some reasons to be quietly optimistic, new cases show signs that they're falling and the lock-down is working, Deaths will sadly continue to rise for a few days (if, indeed this is peak new cases) we may not need the Morgues or all of the Nightingale / Aneurin Bevan beds, I'm sure some pricks will bemoan the cost and how it was all blown out of proportion just because we didn't hit the worst-case 50k deaths or whatever it is, but things could look a lot better in a week or two.
(Source Prof Karol Sikora Twitter).
Yup our kids school has stayed open too. Pfft! Teachers ay fancy needing holidays, not like the rest of us who never have them.
Meanwhile.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-52180033
It's like everything else isn't it, there's good teachers, bad teachers, self entitled teachers, generous teachers. My wife's school is also open for key workers kids. My wife is part of the support staff and has volunteered to go in despite her also being on holiday (man the office, answer phones, run around to support the teachers who have gone in, none of which is her normal duties). However there is also a long list of teachers and support staff who have shown AA's attitude, it has been noted.
Bit like saying everyone in the NHS is great, many are, many aren't, you can't generalise.
My friends who work in Education didn’t like the idea with very many flaky excuses why it wouldn’t work…
flaky as in they actually need the 6 weeks off because of the work load and stress?????
Yeah I know, they offered us a space, we’re both Keyworkers, but I’m able to work from home with our 5 year old.
Sound, and thank you for your key work, I bet you love it when people who only have the vaguest idea what you do chip in with how your work should be rearranged and you could do it better.
I wouldn't even worry about mixing the kids in the school - all the fun will happen before they get to the door or come out at the end of the day. Mixing the parents up at the gate. Filling public transport, mixing up with key workers on public transport. Socialising and groups, coming home late. Not coming back. Opening schools just chucks a massive variable in the mix. Plenty of scope for free styling the rules. No school just removes a lot of these issues.
However there is also a long list of teachers and support staff who have shown AA’s attitude, it has been noted.
What attitude will that be then, I'm in work tomorrow and next week. TBH I'm usually in during Holidays.
I assume you know all the home issues of those teachers who cant volunteer to go in due to health issues or childcare arrangements or who are self isolating or who are actually ill. Its your attitude that needs reajusting.
It’s been floated by a few people in authority and by and large the knee-jerk reaction from Teachers was to shoot it down.
I wonder why and even if it was just due to teachers wanting to keep there terms and conditions when we have chronic shortages of teachers in many subjects thats a good enough reason imo.
I suppose I enjoy teasing Teachers
So you are just a moronic troll then? Fine crack on.
I bet you love it when people who only have the vaguest idea what you do chip in with how your work should be rearranged and you could do it better.
It happens almost daily. It shouldn’t be seen as outsides meddling, but people I work with discussing how I can work better in sync with others for the greater good.
This is the problem I find with discussing Teachers and education. What started as a light hearted discussion has gone completely nuclear because I dared to suggest that as the schools are closed now and lessons being missed, we could make up the time in Summer as a one-off and without a single practical reason why it can’t ( apart from I want to go on holiday) it’s become a shouting match.
So you are just a moronic troll then? Fine crack on
Second personal insult... I sure someone just called me a Dickhead.
Anyway Why not say why it can’t, or shouldn’t be done? Rather than just trying to shout me down? Why the massive over-reaction?
I know that is a very crude assertion but consider that ‘White Europeans’ are more susceptible to malaria and I also read something once about ethnicity and resistance to cholera.
Populations do evolve alongside the diseases so it is possible if a specific population has been exposed over a long period to a disease, or similar disease, some immunity may have crept in just by virtue of those who happened to have natural resistance being the ones to survive and have kids.
Malaria is a good example. One of the genes that helps protect against it if passed through both parents can result in various sickle cell diseases. So if the population doesnt get exposed to malaria then the genes are likely to be selected out since they have a reasonably high risk and no benefit. Put malaria in the mix though and it becomes a useful adaption.
Another example is the depopulation of the americas post contact. They had absolutely no level of immunity to the diseases and hence the deathrates were appalling high.
p - jay - its because your understanding is so lacking. firstly teachers do not have every school holiday week off - indeed they are often in for significant parts of it for in service training, induction of new teachers etc etc. Secondly if you try to run schools over summer the disruption from kids being taken out to go on holiday will make it unworkable
Thats just two real practical objections off the top of my head - and I am not a teacher
No point trying to reason TJ. He has his ideas and everyone else is wrong. He is also a self confessed troll to boot.
I'll give you some reasons for your plan not working,P-Jay:
It's non-contactual work - do you do that?
It's counter-productive - when you are learning you need time for assimilation and recovery, it's like anything else you do, doing it non-stop you get stale, lose motivation and get less productive
It's provocative and discriminatory, I assume you expect every other profession to work non stop after the end of confinement too. No you don't you want your holiday.
Teachers are as much front line key workers in this as the other front line workers whose kids they look after. Bus drivers, teachers, police... anyone with contact with the public is at risk and deserves your, my , our support as much as health workers.
Some specific advice for A-A: take your skills somewhere they'll earn you more money for working less and with more respect from other members of society. I did, no regrets.
Thats just two real practical objections off the top of my head – and I am not a teacher
I know quite a few teachers. The main reason I’d put up for not doing it would be that I don’t want to spend the summer listening to them moaning about work. It’s bad enough during term time. 😀
I’ve seen various comparisons on fb tonight to the film The Death of Stalin. You can only imagine what’s going on behind the scenes with Raab, Gove and Hancock in charge.
Who do we need at a moment of crisis?
Some specif advice for A-A: take your skills somewhere they’ll earn you more money for working less and with more respect from other members of society. I did, no regrets.
I like my job tbh.
I am a teacher, and there are loads of issues that could do with being ironed out. In Scotland, the yeargroup cut off is 1 March, with a school year that starts in August. This results in some pupils completing National Qualifications (GCSE Equiv), but not being old enough to leave school. Every year we put significant resource into providing a curriculum, and staffing, for pupils who don't want to be there from August to Christmas (when they can legally leave).
WRT Football, wouldn't a delay to the end of the current season potentially allow for a between season break that accommodates the 2022 Qatar World Cup?
How about making fun of some of the other professions on the forum for a change, DD: DrP, Drac, rocketdog, TiRed, TJ, Cougar, Konabunny, Greatape, Kerley... we all know what they do but people don't take the piss (edit: out of there professions as it isn't obvious to one).
Teacher retention is lousy, there's a reason for that. Get out A-A, they don't deserve your skills and commitment. Try elsewhere, you might like it and get well paid and some deserved respect.
anagallis_arvensis
I like my job tbh.
How dare you come here with that attitude!
Stay in A-A! You’re needed.
A-A
Feel free to send your kids to school, I’ll be on holiday!
What attitude will that be then,
No smiley so those of us not in the know might have taken that at face value.
Yep aware some teach
Edit premature post, further contentious views below.
You don’t need to take the piss out of TJ’s job - he gives you enough ammo without bringing his profession into it.
Assuming schools are closed for the whole of the summer term (IMHO that's fine if it needs to happen) does anyone have any idea how the practical aspects of children being out of school for 6 months are likely to be handled? I'm thinking mainly of Y7-10. How effective can remote learning be? Will they revisit/revise work from the summer term next September, or do they carry on in September as normal? Once they are prised from the xbox pale and pasty in September it will be a shock to get back to formal learning. Concerned parent here.
Of course they’re all working really hard at the moment, on no, that’s right, they’re in the first of their 2 week Easter break
You might take the time to have kids, see all the records and bits and pieces the Teachers create for the kids x 30 or thereabouts and have a think where all that time comes from. As a parent of two, I'd also wonder how long it'd take me to recover from dealing with 30 of the little tikes every day.
we all know what they do but people don’t take the piss.
Lazy, gold plated pensions and they don’t care about anything as they can’t be sacked. I even seen one NHS worker having a cup of tea.
Deleted just in case it wasn’t obvious it was a joke...
Remote learning can be really effective if the parents take an interest making sure the kids do the work and have understood it. Many of you parents are at home with your kids, take an interest, you might learn soemthing too.
A-A
Feel free to send your kids to school, I’ll be on holiday!
What attitude will that be then,
Can't imagine, no smiley so those of us not in the know might have taken that at face value especially given some of your previous posts.
Yep aware some teachers are off as they are vulnerable, care for others who are vulnerable, plenty who aren't in these catrgories as well.
Educator
Point 1 - fair comment, I'd want negotiation about such a big contract change.
Point 2 - fair enough for the kids, they do need a break, 6 weeks in one stint is a bit long though, be better spreading the weeks out.
Point 3 - I expect a lot of people will be working extra hours, those lucky enough to still have a job, those recovering from the financial effects of furlough. There will be a lot needing doing to get society back on its feet and as teachers are such key workers I'd expect them to muck in.
indeed they are often in for significant parts of it for in service training, induction of new teachers etc etc.
TJ what a load of guff, some of the senior teachers are in and most teachers do some work in the holiday periods but to suggest most work significant parts of yhe holidays shows your lack of understanding. Your second point though is pretty spot on, chances of getting kids into school in meaningful numbers is nil given pre-booked holidays etc.
Many of you parents are at home with your kids, take an interest, you might learn soemthing too.
It’s true. We did spelling today.
I’m learning that teachers are even shitter at anything IT related than I’d imagined.
"Remote learning can be really effective if the parents take an interest making sure the kids do the work and have understood it. Many of you parents are at home with your kids, take an interest, you might learn soemthing too."
Thanks, I certainly take an interest. My question was mainly about how schools are likely to deal with it, not my personal situation.