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"Sorry if you are a little too sensitive for the current situation"
I'm off to work on an ITU tomorrow night, where, when people die, they die without any family members allowed to see them. The casual use of 50:50 when discussing chances is somewhat less than helpful when we are dealing with distressed relatives.
I'm a lot less sensitive than most, having seen a lot more deaths than you or anyone else on here over the years...
But you crack on with your outrage if it makes you feel superior.
I don't think anyone here has said anything interesting enough to provoke outrage. Just a few nobodies trying to get themselves noticed in a little corner of the internet. I'll work myself up to mild disappointment if it helps.
Is that technic ducatimonster linked to legitimate as there is a lot of fake news. I asked this question week or so back but I can’t imagine there are many lung specialists on STW
the report goes into some detail about this
https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/76a7364b-4b76-ea11-9124-00505601089b
Thanks, that's great detail.
The casual use of 50:50 when discussing chances is somewhat less than helpful when we are dealing with distressed relatives.
Tbf weve been discussing these statistics on here for weeks & Im sure its realer for you than most crikey, but I dont think his relatives will be reading this!
Anyone else Crikey?
Your posts give me confidence and hope tho. Skills, knowledge and good sense just shine through. Thank you
@tails Why don’t you think there are lung specialists on here? It is STW and it’s celebrated hive mind…
It came to me via another forum alas I can’t verify the source as legit, however without sounding like I got similar advice from next doors cat.
My SiL is an oncology nurse transferred to covid 19 duties and that has been her advice to us.
It’s a pity this kind of advice isn’t released officially, all I’ll say is it’s something I’ll take up for now.
A horrible disease, wouldn’t want that for anyone no matter what I thought of them
This. Had a little wobble myself today. It is an awful disease, and we know relatively little about it. I hope he makes a good recovery. And I hope the nation realises that this is not a dose of chickenpox, or a nasty flu. It is a national emergency.
Someone you know will lose someone to this disease. Think about that.
BTW Dame Angela was spot on about calling the peak of the epidemic. We need longer time series data to make that call. We are not even mid-way through the woods. In fact we don't really know how deep the woods are.
It’s a pity this kind of advice isn’t released officially, all I’ll say is it’s something I’ll take up for now.
Should be on tv with the bald bloke (whiting?)
I’m a lot less sensitive than most, having seen a lot more deaths than you or anyone else on here over the years…
Remember you’re not only one who works in healthcare but you do some what have a point.
TJ maybe just lay off the blood in his hands bits he’s a human with a fiancé who’s pregnant.
Is ducatimonster’s video just a load of … ?
There are plenty of official sources of information about Corona virus, from .gov to WHO.
His boozing and cocaine use will have badly damaged him
Unless you know something the rest of the world doesn't then I severely doubt he has taken anywhere near enough coke to cause himself any harm in the long term. And even if he was a huge coke head, which he isn't, then long term impacts on chronic users is debatable to say the least, with limited evidence that it causes problems in long term addicts.
He's no athlete, he's overweight, but I bet he's no more unhealthy than a fair portion of the population. He's just been unlucky..
To be hoped Boris'predicament helps the average invincible middle-aged, overweight stressed male realise how dangerous this is.
he’s a human with a fiancé who’s pregnant.
Mind boggles at medical advances in these crazy times
The vapour itself contains respiratory droplets including saliva, mucus and bacteria and when it’s blown out, it travels for a long distance and hangs in the air at head height.”
Propylene glycol (the base in most vaping liquids) is used to sterilise air in hospitals, so I wouldn’t be too concerned.
He’s just been unlucky..
He’s been careless, and unlucky.
Remember a few weeks ago when we were commenting on how Boris seemed out of his depth? Well after watching Dominic Raab's rabbit caught in the headlights WTF am I doing here performance this evening Boris looks almost Churchillian. And without wanting to make light of it, I've seen various comparisons on fb tonight to the film The Death of Stalin. You can only imagine what's going on behind the scenes with Raab, Gove and Hancock in charge.
To be hoped Boris’predicament helps the average invincible middle-aged, overweight stressed male realise how dangerous this is.
yeah his dad's "I'm going to the pub" quip rings a little hollow now.
Well after watching Dominic Raab’s rabbit caught in the headlights WTF am I doing here performance this evening Boris looks almost Churchillian.
Harsh, he knows how serious the situation is with Johnson, of course he is shaken.
Well said Drac about laying off the '....blood on his hands' hyperbole.
I'm a registered labour member but wouldn't wish covid-19 on anyone - let alone the tory PM at a time of national crisis.
Not sure how anyone could wish this on anyone, let alone Bojo...
9 of us from work have had it, I spent 6 days with a high temp and feeling like I was on my way out, however I consider myself extremely lucky one of us 9 never made it through, he was 20 years old with no underlying health issues, died last Thursday, I’ve still not grasped the fact he’s dead...
One guy is still in icu...
It’s real 😢😢😢😢
@unfitgeezer. Holy **** - that's close to home. Hope you are well over it.
Ah! Bugger that’s crap unfit.
Harsh
Not really. He's the de facto PM of the UK in the biggest crisis since WWII. His primary job is keep people calm and transmit confidence, even if inside he's having a panic attack. If he's not able to do that he should step aside for someone who can. Not that there's anyone else in Boris's gang of sycophants mind you. Maybe time to revisit the national government idea?
Remember a few weeks ago when we were commenting on how Boris seemed out of his depth?
I also remember a few weeks ago people claiming how convenient it was Boris caught Covid-19 and that it was probably a ploy.
I am not wishing him harm. But I really do not care at all what happens to him
Maybe that makes me bad man but I just do not and I am not going to be all sanctimonious and pretend I do care.
His primary job is keep people calm and transmit confidence, even if inside he’s having a panic attack
The PM, and acting PM, are humans, flawed like all of us. If Raab came out all solid and unshaken by his boss being in such a dire position I’d be seriously worried about him.
I am not wishing him harm. But I really do not care at all what happens to him
Maybe that makes me bad man but I just do not and I am not going to be all sanctimonious and pretend I do care.
I'm in that club.
I’m very much over it...I hope !
I’ve got so much on my plate at the moment I don’t have the brain space to even think about it...
Anxiety levels at all time high,
You don’t need to be but you can lay off the blood on his hands comment I don’t think now is the time for such slur.
Really sorry to hear what you’re going through unfitgeezer.
I hope Boris and any other person in his position makes it through.
There's some downright callous stuff going on here.
How terrible to wish this kind of ill upon a fellow human being.
How terrible to wish this kind of ill upon a fellow human being.
Sorry, have I missed something? No one on this forum has, have they? I’d hope not.
Drac - I'll take the telling. We are all a bit on edge.
Thanks TJ.
Sorry, have I missed something? No one on this forum has, have they? I’d hope not.
Sadly there was.
kimbers
Subscriberstandard trump
He's absolutely obsessed with hydroxychloroquine, did you see any of the press conference last night? "Hydroxychloroquine. Try it. If you'd like. Take it." "Erythromycin, which will kill certain things that you don't want living within your body. It's a powerful drug ... what do you have to lose?"
Not just terrible advice but creepy as ****
Mind you if it turns out to actually work he's going to look like a genius. So far though all we definitely know is that his announcements have killed at least one person (albeit, a total idiot) and that people who genuinely need the drug for other conditions such as lupus are struggling to get it. And when you look at all the trump zoomers... Apparently it's all a big MSM plot to stop american lives from being saved just to make trump look bad.
Sadly there was.
People. I despair.
Mind you if it turns out to actually work he’s going to look like a genius.
And if it doesn’t, he’ll just claim he never said it. Same as at every other step of this crisis.
Take care unfit geezer - that just sounds horrendous.
I hope Johnson pulls through - it's all funny till it's not. Right now it's definitely not. Every day Boris is the joker in the pack and tall tales and gallows humour go with the territory. He's fair game for it but this is not an experience to wish on anyone. Even if Boris is see as complicit in all of this - for the country the shock of loosing the PM in a national emergency; do we really want that?
He’s absolutely obsessed with hydroxychloroquine,
this is parody btw
I feel I have to point that out, because Trump is that bonkers he could say this....
theres an awful lot of seemingly intelligent Republican commentators & even politicians tweeting that its all a massive over-reaction and Trump has fallen for a scam, genuinely scary, at least over here its Katy Hopkins, brendan O'Neil & Amanda Holden- known crackpots we can safely ignore
Is ducatimonster’s video just a load of … ?
Was that the deep breaths thing ?
"I am not the lung expert you're looking for"
but I don't think it was all bollocks. Deep breathing & holdin briefly presumably does open up lower airways at least a bit and many of the ventilated pts on ICUs will be done lying on their fronts (prone ventilation)
There's nobody in the Tory government I really trust and labour seems purged of talent; complete dross on the labour front bench. I'd rather Blair or Brown was wheeled in for this crisis although that's not going to happen.
Drac – I’ll take the telling. We are all a bit on edge.
I'm glad you said that TJ. I always thought you were a decent human but your recent posts gave me doubts
My God Raab looks shakey.
It's more important than ever to hold the government to scrutiny right now. Boris and Cummings decided to form a government more autocratic in nature than any we've seen in our lifetime, evidenced by the resignation of Sajid Javid. They were seeking to erode the traditional capacities of the office of Chancellor in order to concentrate power at the top, moving from a more collegiate form of governance to a more 'executive's one.
We have assembled a cabinet of sycophants rather than a cabinet of talents. The problem with that (well one of many) is that when the leader is absent a vacuum is left, to be filled by the vacuous.
rydster Member
My God Raab looks shakey.
Course he does, he's the man who was brexit secretary for 4 months before he discovered Dover was important. By all accounts he was a good solicitor and a competent enough local MP but politically the only reason he's not a backbencher is that he was such a vocal brexiteer, and he knows it. And now suddenly he's acting PM.
Obviously hope he makes it but, the thought of Raab (scary enough) in charge with the den of ****s that is Gove, Moog etc manouvering behind him is frightening
With Cummings out of the picture as well, the head of the snake has been well and truly cut off
Guys has franksinatra checked in here since last week? Anyone know if he's out of ICU?
Yes we should be looking hard at the government. Seeing aside bojos current condition, the move to shelve any dissenters is not looking good right now.
I’ve been worrying about franksinatra too
Although this thread could be pretty odious to read if you’re living it so maybe he just needs space and recovery.
Frank’s post on here.
I'm still in hospital but feeling much better. There had been a few dark days over the past week but I managed to keep out of ITU. I'm off O2 this morning for the first time to see how my lungs get on, if all okay them I may go home over the weekend. That is not the end of it though, going to be a journey getting lungs working again and I've lost a remarkable amount of muscle and strength. I feel about 150yrs old. It's been utterly horrible.
He also posted about Apple TV’s 3 days ago.
but politically the only reason he’s not a backbencher is that he was such a vocal brexiteer, and he knows it
There are two reasons. The most important one is he isnt a political threat.
He’s absolutely obsessed with hydroxychloroquine
"Mr. Trump himself has a small personal financial interest in Sanofi, the French drugmaker that makes Plaquenil, the brand-name version of hydroxychloroquine."
Trump’s Aggressive Advocacy of Malaria Drug for Treating Coronavirus Divides Medical Community
Follow the money. Jesus, it seems like even with this global crisis every time he opens his mouth we need to check for ways that he is making himself richer.
Well, news from Sweden is still pretty non-committal. No lockdown as yet in the city (Stockholm) and people still mostly going about business. There is a very distinct trend toward staying a good distance away from people, and the subway and commuter trains are getting emptier, but there are still people that have to go to work and so there is still risk involved. The roads are quieter though.
With Easter approaching and schools mostly out, I think there will be at least some sort of exodus out to the country, especially if the weather is nice. I know Google thinks that movement is down significantly, but decent weather will make that hard to retain, especially if you are an active nation that likes the country. The concern is that holiday cabins attract a lot of old people all year round and are relatively isolated right now.
The problem with that (well one of many) is that when the leader is absent a vacuum is left, to be filled by the vacuous.
It's even worse when Johnson was already part of the vacuum of talent before he fell ill.
I wish Bojo well, I don’t like the man, he lies more than Jay from the Inbetweeners, he played the system and disadvantaged the whole country for his own personal gain.
I have so little trust in the man I wasn’t 100% the “I’ve got it as well” wasn’t a look at me I’m one the herd, a man of the people stunt.
However to wish somebody ill says more about yourself than than anything else.
And as fit as I’m sure he says is, being at the top of government must be an incredible (and possibly unexpected weight) a weight that carries huge stress consciously and subconsciously especially when hit with a crisis like this.
I hope he pulls through
The tories have been lying about Johnsons condition right thru this
It was obvious his condition was much more serious than they were claiming.
Back from my run in the woods.
Past an old giffer this morning that had just parked up in his sports car, he was asking me and another Walker which way to the hill. Hardly the time to be exploring. Also from this access point there are 3 ways to go. 1 of those ways involves operating 2 gates. Old giffer had already gone through the gate and back to ask us, so touching 2 highly used surfaces. So the message hasn't reached everyone.
Reading between the lines, yes, it was. He went very quiet very quickly. It looked like even getting to the front door of #10 for a quick clap was draining.
Thing is, what else were the propaganda department going to say? Of course they say he is fighting it off, still leading the cabinet, etc. etc.
as fit as I’m sure he says is
He's not fit, let's be honest.
People above have asked about the chances of survival once in intensive care. BFM reports 50-55% for "réanimation" which implies being on ventilation not just oxygen which can be given anywhere:
According to a Guardian journalist on Europe 1 this morning Boris isn't on a ventilator.
Of the stuff posted about Boris there's one comment I agree with:
I hope he pulls through a genuinely changed man with a bit more humanity about him.
The press have no direct knowledge - only what they are told by cabinet minsters. They are now hinting he is on CPAP - now that can be done thru a type of mask or via a ventilator. Why would he be in itu which carries a risk and is under huge pressure if he is not being ventilated?
i simply do not believe it. My guess he is on CPAP using a ventilator but they are justifying saying he is not being ventilated as he is not on a full vent mode. If he was getting CPAP thru the type of a machine used for snorers than why ITU? That could be done in the private room he was in.
it does not add up
I bet today more info drips out and by the end of today the story has changed. They have been downplaying Johnsons condition since the middle of last week
Same as at every other step of
this crisishis presidency.
FTFY
Of course they're going to downplay it he's the Prime Minister FFS. There's a whole multitude of countries that would love to use the situation to their advantage
Does it matter? He’s in ITU I hope he pulls through for the sake of his family.
Reading between the lines, yes, it was. He went very quiet very quickly. It looked like even getting to the front door of #10 for a quick clap was draining.
He did not look in great shape clapping
Thing is, what else were the propaganda department going to say? Of course they say he is fighting it off, still leading the cabinet, etc. etc.
Another thing to consider here is betting against the economy as the PM is not in a good way. The recent press coverage linking a business Jacob Rees-Mogg's set up and, I believe still has shares in, to disaster capitalism being a case in point. There are always going to be people who exploit the situation - perversely some of these people may be pro Johnson in other events.
i simply do not believe it. My guess he is on CPAP using a ventilator but they are justifying saying he is not being ventilated as he is not on a full vent mode.
Seems quite likely, especially considering the government have repeatedly bent the truth over the last few weeks & years.
I'd be more surprised if they started being honest about things !
And unsurprising they'd want to downplay things, no one is going to be reassured by the idea of Raab as PM !
There’s a whole multitude of countries that would love to use the situation to their advantage
How so ? It seems to be the opposite to me, the EU have made it clear they are prepared to extend Brexit negotiations due to CV19 and several EU parliamentarians have called for just that. The hostility to the UK and threats of border closures becuase of the herd approach ended once the UK opted for confinement. There's cooperation at a research level. Other nations have contributed enormously to repatriating UK citizens from around the world.
I see far more solidarity than "use the situation to their advantage"
The recent press coverage linking a business Jacob Rees-Mogg’s set up and, I believe still has shares in, to disaster capitalism being a case in point.
even more reason for them to be open and above board, prevent any accusations of "insider" dealing ie shorting the pound because you know the pm is worse than no10 are admitting
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52180783
I see the "minimal" effect of school closures is being talked about.
I have this down as the first measure we have lifted when our trip back to normality begins.
Why would he be in itu which carries a risk and is under huge pressure if he is not being ventilated?
Very much this. Right now there is one reason to be in ITU if you have Covid-19.
I refer to the BBC text:
BBC political correspondent Chris Mason said the prime minister was given oxygen late on Monday afternoon, before being taken to intensive care.
He was moved as a precaution so he could be close to a ventilator - which takes over the body's breathing process, our correspondent said.
In the same way that you don't go in to hospital late sunday for 'routine checks' as 'a precaution', you don't go in to ITU at this point in time as 'a precaution' to be 'close to a ventilator'.
Just seen that Trump thing, wtf?!
I was just thinking its one hell of a story arc from "Take it on the chin" to "Admitted to ITU" via "Operation Last Gasp".
Just seen that Trump thing, wtf?!
someone on twitter posed the creepy thought "is that his seduction voice" ?
Just read the trump thing
No wonder he just got the taxpayer to order 29,000,000 doses of it
What a shameless turd that guy is?!
The only thing you can say with confidence at the moment is that Johnson is seriously ill.
Not commented much on here recent but here goes, Boris's current position is sad and i feel for him and his extended family.
However i can not forgive him, his class?, his politics for the utter destruction of poor people for many years.
If Boris pulls through will it change him to a compassionate more caring human being? No it will enforce his divine right. If he passes away he will become a Tory martyr.
Salute the rank not the man as they say in the Armed Forces. I genuinely hope he survives so Starmer can constructively dismantle him but also for his family and I really hope his dad is mulling over his stupid pub comments.
Only 2/3 of patients in ITU are ventilated. It's not the only thing ITU offers. But if he does go to ventilation within 24 hours it is not a good predictor.
I was just thinking its one hell of a story arc from “Take it on the chin” to “Admitted to ITU” via “Operation Last Gasp”.
you could cut to him having a pint with his dad somewhere in act 2
That BBC article about school closures is ridiculous. Schools are the first thing to close and last thing to open, and that's precisely what's happened in just about every country.
The only reason to reopen schools is to spread the virus as fast as possible, they are a fantastic vector of disease spread and perfect if you really want apply the "herd" strategy.
Why do the BBC insitst on publishing stuff that's so clearly off the wall? They give the same value to the outliers (which there will always be) as the reasoanable rational consensus and it does the public a great disservice. It was the BBC who gave space to the Oxford virologist who claims the virus is only live for a very short time, less than a week, whereas almost every other source I've seen says up to two weeks and some highly trustworthy medics at the front line say they are sometimes faced with cases that are still infectious after a month.
you could cut to him having a pint with his dad somewhere in act 2
Act 2 is shaking hands in the Covid-19 ward I reckon.
As far as Trump goes, you should check out what his son-in-law is doing:
https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1247335425074696199